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  #6681  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 1:39 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
Since when has it become cheaper to abandon/sell buildings instead of renovating them and building new instead? Unless they don't expect to build/own and are looking for a sweetheart deal to rent somewhere else?
I wondered about that too. $38M doesn't seem like it would build anything impressive, when you consider what the Y is/does. What's missing, however, is the value of the land as a redevelopment site. I imagine that's a hefty bit of change as well. I wonder how the existing site compares in size to the land that the Good Companions are looking to redevelop/sell?
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  #6682  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I wondered about that too. $38M doesn't seem like it would build anything impressive, when you consider what the Y is/does. What's missing, however, is the value of the land as a redevelopment site. I imagine that's a hefty bit of change as well. I wonder how the existing site compares in size to the land that the Good Companions are looking to redevelop/sell?
Good Companions is an awkward site because of the cliff. Roughly 60k square feet triangular area where it could be feasible to build.

Current YMCA land is about 65k.

Surprised it's so close, honestly.
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  #6683  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I wondered about that too. $38M doesn't seem like it would build anything impressive, when you consider what the Y is/does. What's missing, however, is the value of the land as a redevelopment site. I imagine that's a hefty bit of change as well. I wonder how the existing site compares in size to the land that the Good Companions are looking to redevelop/sell?
Yes this must be about the land value and maybe moving to a more suburban area. The other option would be a Y under a residential development.
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  #6684  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 2:31 PM
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[QUOTE=J.OT13;9774620]
They sold the Orleans Y a few months ago. I suspected it was more about unloading a building largely used as a vaccine clinic, but maybe it is a trend, as you suggest.

Also sold Orillia, Niagara falls, simcoe/Muskoka, mississauga, etc?
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  #6685  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Good Companions is an awkward site because of the cliff. Roughly 60k square feet triangular area where it could be feasible to build.

Current YMCA land is about 65k.

Surprised it's so close, honestly.
Yes, the cliff could be an issue, but it doesn't seem out of the question, if a project could get the height.
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  #6686  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 2:41 PM
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Yes this must be about the land value and maybe moving to a more suburban area. The other option would be a Y under a residential development.
Gosh, I hope it still will be the "central" Y, although close to an LRT station could expand things, I guess.
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  #6687  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 3:07 PM
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Gosh, I hope it still will be the "central" Y, although close to an LRT station could expand things, I guess.
Maybe they want in on the swimming pool proposal at Hurdman.
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  #6688  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 3:21 PM
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Maybe they want in on the swimming pool proposal at Hurdman.
Thought that would be a good spot too. Would go with a general sports theme for the area, if it comes to fruition.

A more suburban location is fine as long as it's built adjacent to an O-Train station within 15 minutes from Downtown (passed Hurdman or Tunney's would be too far IMO).
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  #6689  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 3:35 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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I'm sure the land has good development potential, but if it's not sold for cheap, then you would think the cost of buying the land, tearing down the complex along with a roughly 15 story tower would not be cheap.

One would think there are lots of other lands around downtown that would be a lot less costly for developers to snap up.
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  #6690  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
I'm sure the land has good development potential, but if it's not sold for cheap, then you would think the cost of buying the land, tearing down the complex along with a roughly 15 story tower would not be cheap.

One would think there are lots of other lands around downtown that would be a lot less costly for developers to snap up.
I think the best bet would be for a developer to buy the complex and renovate it. Would be a relatively easy project for OCH or CCOC, if the Y were wiling to sell at a discount.
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  #6691  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 8:02 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Good Companions is an awkward site because of the cliff. Roughly 60k square feet triangular area where it could be feasible to build.

Current YMCA land is about 65k.

Surprised it's so close, honestly.
Awkward site, or AWESOME SITE?
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  #6692  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 8:03 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Yes this must be about the land value and maybe moving to a more suburban area. The other option would be a Y under a residential development.
At some point someone will notice that central Ottawa is hollowing out and being hollowed out?
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  #6693  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2022, 9:40 PM
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At some point someone will notice that central Ottawa is hollowing out and being hollowed out?
I'm trying to comprehend this comment, but I'm struggling. Central Ottawa is getting an injection of thousands of new residential units, and will soon have many office buildings converted to residential units.
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Last edited by Harley613; Oct 28, 2022 at 9:47 PM. Reason: wrong word
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  #6694  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 3:28 PM
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Community groups say sale of downtown YMCA-YWCA could mean losing valuable services
Building requires $38M in upgrades, according to CEO

Dan Taekema · CBC News
Posted: Oct 29, 2022 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 7 hours ago


Advocates and social service providers say losing the YMCA-YWCA in downtown Ottawa would leave a hole in the heart of the community and mean saying goodbye to services that will be hard to replicate.

They're urging the charity consider the people who rely on it for support and include them in transition planning as the building is put up for sale. An incoming councillor is also calling for the site to remain a community hub.

"If they have to move out of the ... core, then we lose a really, really valuable downtown service, support and housing," said Michelle Hurtubise, executive director of Centretown Community Health Centre (CCHC).

The centre's staff work with the YMCA regularly, particularly around clients living in the charity's housing units.

Hurtubise described the location at 180 Argyle Avenue as a "classic example" of the right service in the right place to connect users with wraparound supports, from deeply-subsidized recreation programs to employment help.

"It's such a great spot," she explained. "The concern that ... some of our staff has, is that in shutting down and moving, it will be hard to replicate all of that connection to community resources and support."

The YMCA has been a great partner, the director was quick to add, but said she can't help but wonder, "what are we going to lose in that move?"

While many people think of the YMCA as a place to swim, shoot hoops or work out, the location on Argyle Avenue provides much more. Its Shenkman Residence offers transitional housing and monthly supportive housing at a more-affordable rate.

The charity said the sale is part of plans to find or build a facility better-suited to the programs and services it provides.

Built in 1969, the brown-brick building towering over a section of Centretown would require $38 million in upgrades, according to Bob Gallagher, president and CEO of the YMCA-YWCA of the National Capital Region.

He said the building has come to the end of its lifecycle and become a less comfortable place to live as the heat doesn't always work.

Gallagher recognized the YMCA-YWCA's central location with access to services and transit and said those considerations will be factors in choosing the next spot.

"It's about the best location, not the same, but the best to serve the future," he said.

The sale process is expected to take two years and the charity said staff will continue provide services in the meantime with the minimum amount of disruption.

Alexandra Zannis, a social worker and director with the Basic Income Canada Youth Network (BICYN) stressed the importance of continuity of care.

"Moving physical locations, even for the best of reasons can cause a great amount of anxiety and confusion," she explained.

Zannis suggested any information about a move should be provided in multiple languages and take things like mobility access into consideration and the CCHC director agreed.

"If there isn't good conversation with community partners, the impact on the people who are being supported, is so significant. It's easy for them to fall through the cracks," Hurtubise said.

Somerset ward councillor-elect Ariel Troster is among those monitoring the sale.

She called the YMCA-YWCA a "crucial resource" and "key part of the neighbourhood," pointing to its housing and non-profit daycare and would like to see it turned into a community hub.

Troster said the neighbourhood can't lose the housing offered in the building and if the YMCA's not running it, local groups and the city should put their heads together to come up with a strategy to make sure it stays.

"I think making sure that that parcel of land stays and community hands and provides community services will be really, really key going forward."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ymca-argyle-avenue-sale-1.6633800
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  #6695  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 5:37 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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I'm trying to comprehend this comment, but I'm struggling. Central Ottawa is getting an injection of thousands of new residential units, and will soon have many office buildings converted to residential units.
But it also keeps losing institutions and retail establishments and other non-residential things to the suburbs.

Hollowing out.
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  #6696  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2022, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
But it also keeps losing institutions and retail establishments and other non-residential things to the suburbs.

Hollowing out.
Completely 110% disagree. The odd thing has left the core as part of the natural ebbs and flows of a city, but with all the new residential will come new institutions, retail and entertainment. It is the opposite of hollowing out. Go sit out front of Farm Boy on Metcalfe at any time of day, that area is bustling. The area around 400 Albert and Moon will be the same when those projects are finished. Lebreton and Zibi are well on their way to being 'a place to be'. The massive new project at Lansdowne and all of the midrises going up all down Bank will be amplifying Ottawa's unofficial main street even more. The Byward Market, with all of it's troubles, is still going as strong as ever and is about to receive some major investment from the city, in addition to the private sector building new hotels and thousands of residential units. It's hard to find a place in Ottawa's core that isn't in the process of growing and revitalizing. I have never found Ottawa as exciting as it is right now with all of the investment and growth happening in the core.
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  #6697  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2022, 12:15 AM
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They will need to find another location downtown. Maybe the old Greyhound station block? They cannot relocate outside downtown, that's a non-starter.
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  #6698  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2022, 1:32 PM
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Does Charlesfort Developments no longer exist? Their website is dead:

http://www.charlesfort.ca/

If that's the case, it's too bad. They introduced some pretty amazing projects with Hudson Park, the Continental and Merit, along with a few other small projects.

Their last one was a disappointment though. Putman, was it?
They lost a court case recently. I wonder if that put them over the top.

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-l-csc-a/en/item/19183/index.do
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  #6699  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2022, 2:08 PM
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They will need to find another location downtown. Maybe the old Greyhound station block? They cannot relocate outside downtown, that's a non-starter.
Brigil owns and has big plans for that block, I really doubt we'll see a Y as part of it.
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  #6700  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2022, 8:16 PM
Norman Bates Norman Bates is offline
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They lost a court case recently. I wonder if that put them over the top.

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-l-csc-a/en/item/19183/index.do
This deals with the construction of the Continental.

While excavating for the parking garage a very large water main was unexpectedly encountered. It did not appear on documents that the City provided to Charlesfort compelling them to make unplanned changes to their construction technique.

Charlesfort sought $6 million compensation claiming the City was negligent, and was awarded $4.5 million in damages at trial.

The City appealed the trial judgement - and won.

Charlesfort petitioned the S.C.C., but the case was dismissed with costs.

So given legal fees, Charlesfort is probably out of pocket somewhere approaching 2022 $10 million.

As well, I think I remember someone mentioning that Doug Casey was dealing with medical issues and in semi-retirement.
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