DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Sorry, to be more clear: I meant if they decide to pedestrianize a large portion of that corridor that some transit investment is probably necessary. If there are accommodations made to keep capacity at or near what it is at now, transit roughly as it is/planned would be fine.

After reading up on all of the related projects in the area (new to Denver here, sorry), I do think this potential project on Speer is worth it if confined to the area between Colfax and I-25.

Speer is 4 lanes each direction from I-25 to Downing. No arterial needs 4 lanes each way - that's considered a highway regardless of what speed they slap on a sign. Speer doesn't need to be a highway and no, we don't need to see a traffic study (here's why). Traffic studies only look at vehicle movements, they don't consider other tangible benefits ie built environment, parks, peds, cyclists, etc. DOTI already has a disproportionate amount of power within the planning process and we should limit their bad decisions which are only good for cars and trucks.

Moving the north lanes on the south/west side of cherry creek is an excellent idea and one I hope the City considers taking all the way to Downing.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

I believe this is what the magas call virtue signaling.

As if having a bunch of homeless filling every corner of the city is what we need.
As for your train to cherry creek, lol. That would be utilized by the few heading to cc. Nobody in cc would ever need that stupid train. So as has been mentioned, killing downtown retail would be about all that would ever happen aside from making one of the nicer and cleaner parts of town scary and gross.

Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud.

Did I say that a train should go to CC in my post? Or is this just your daily burst of vitrol brought on by the gentrifiers riding their scooters past your place?

[TakeFive]

Hmm, I realized I needed to refresh my memory of Speer Blvd

Originally Posted by laniroj

Speer is 4 lanes each direction from I-25 to Downing. No arterial needs 4 lanes each way - that's considered a highway regardless of what speed they slap on a sign. Speer doesn't need to be a highway and no, we don't need to see a traffic study (here's why). Traffic studies only look at vehicle movements, they don't consider other tangible benefits ie built environment, parks, peds, cyclists, etc. DOTI already has a disproportionate amount of power within the planning process and we should limit their bad decisions which are only good for cars and trucks.

Moving the north lanes on the south/west side of cherry creek is an excellent idea and one I hope the City considers taking all the way to Downing.

Four thru lanes is a lot. That said semantics is always interesting.

I'm hard pressed to think of four lane roads in Phoenix. The difference is that Speer Blvd is an antiquated road design.

Most arterial roads in Phoenix are 6 lanes (3 in each direction) HOWEVER, most intersections consist of 2 left turn lanes and 1 right turn lane but only 6 thru lanes. Four thru lanes without turn lanes is a mess.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Did I say that a train should go to CC in my post? Or is this just your daily burst of vitrol brought on by the gentrifiers riding their scooters past your place?

Yeah, he totally misread your comment.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by laniroj

DOTI already has a disproportionate amount of power within the planning process and we should limit their bad decisions which are only good for cars and trucks.

Moving the north lanes on the south/west side of cherry creek is an excellent idea and one I hope the City considers taking all the way to Downing.

You do tend to conflate things at times.

DOTI is empowered by the City/County of Denver and not the other way around. They do perform very challenging logistics tasks. Policy for this is determined by various groups including elected officials.

It is not unrealistic that four thru lanes near the Auraria campus could work. You'd need to ban turning from those lanes or add turning lanes if/where desired. Going below grade would also enhance that specific area.

In any case, Denver/DOTI will have it's hands full just trying to execute the $1.3 billion in already promised and approved projects from bond issues for the foreseeable future.

[DenvertoLA]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

I believe this is what the magas call virtue signaling.

As if having a bunch of homeless filling every corner of the city is what we need.
As for your train to cherry creek, lol. That would be utilized by the few heading to cc. Nobody in cc would ever need that stupid train. So as has been mentioned, killing downtown retail would be about all that would ever happen aside from making one of the nicer and cleaner parts of town scary and gross.

Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud.

If you think downtown and CC retail is the same, I question if you have been to either...

Of course the rich snobs will try to block a train connecting CC to downtown. B-hills in LA stalled the subway for more than a decade, but in the end they lost because connecting the city provides more value to the community the preserving a rich oasis.

If anything, I'd say lets put the homeless at the rich peoples doorsteps, then the gov might actually do something. haha

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

I believe this is what the magas call virtue signaling.

As if having a bunch of homeless filling every corner of the city is what we need.
As for your train to cherry creek, lol. That would be utilized by the few heading to cc. Nobody in cc would ever need that stupid train. So as has been mentioned, killing downtown retail would be about all that would ever happen aside from making one of the nicer and cleaner parts of town scary and gross.

Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud.

How is it that this forumer gets to continue to post these blatant trolling posts with absolutely no repercussions? I have seen others on this forum get banned for MUCH less. I thought this forum had guidelines - a big one being "No antisocial behavior, trolling, spamming, profanity, etc."

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by mr1138

How is it that this forumer gets to continue to post these blatant trolling posts with absolutely no repercussions? I have seen others on this forum get banned for MUCH less. I thought this forum had guidelines - a big one being "No antisocial behavior, trolling, spamming, profanity, etc."

I don’t read that post as trolling…

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

If you think downtown and CC retail is the same, I question if you have been to either...

Of course the rich snobs will try to block a train connecting CC to downtown. B-hills in LA stalled the subway for more than a decade, but in the end they lost because connecting the city provides more value to the community the preserving a rich oasis.

If anything, I'd say lets put the homeless at the rich peoples doorsteps, then the gov might actually do something. haha

Bolded for emphasis. This is essential to the point I was trying to make.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

If anything, I'd say lets put the homeless at the rich peoples doorsteps, then the gov might actually do something. haha

This isn't how it works. At least not in Colorado. Put enough homeless people in rich peoples' front yards, and the rich people will all just move to the mountains. This is already happening; remote work has enabled it. And the trade-offs a person makes living proximate to the urban core look a lot different than they did a few years ago. Rich people also tend to have a pretty good insight into the inner workings of government, which, in Denver, is a scary sight. No rich person thinks government isn't trying to fix homelessness - we are throwing absolutely massive amounts of money at it. Rich people question whether government is capable of fixing it, which is a very different thing. Which is how you get to what you hear frequently today: either get it out of my front yard through tougher law enforcement, or we'll take matters into our hands. Whatever that means family to family. (For the 7th Avenue Neighborhood Association, that might mean hiring a private security force - that email came around last week. For many others, it means leaving.)

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

You do tend to conflate things at times.

DOTI is empowered by the City/County of Denver and not the other way around. They do perform very challenging logistics tasks. Policy for this is determined by various groups including elected officials.

It is not unrealistic that four thru lanes near the Auraria campus could work. You'd need to ban turning from those lanes or add turning lanes if/where desired. Going below grade would also enhance that specific area.

In any case, Denver/DOTI will have it's hands full just trying to execute the $1.3 billion in already promised and approved projects from bond issues for the foreseeable future.

You know how we know you haven't set foot in Denver in years? Defending DOTI. I am not sure even DOTI defends DOTI these days.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

I don’t read that post as trolling…

"Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud." Yeah.... that's trolling.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by mr1138

"Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud." Yeah.... that's trolling.

I genuinely disagree.

Per wiki:

inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception.

It may have been mildly inflammatory, but it seemed sincere and was not digressive, nor extraneous or off-topic (being a reply to a standing discussion topic in which others had already made similar points) nor was is inaccurate or unrealistic. Further, it is clear many people share the same view, including here, so I am not sure you could claim that is was meant to be manipulative. Maybe it did generate an emotional reply or two, but was that the intent of the post? On balance, I doubt it.

If you really believe the user is a troll then don’t engage at all. Trolls give up when they don’t have oxygen. On the other hand, people who are sincere tend to continue to engage even in absence of such attention.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You know how we know you haven't set foot in Denver in years? Defending DOTI. I am not sure even DOTI defends DOTI these days.

Taking out your DOTI frustration on me because they didn't support 'your' sidewalk proposal is misplaced.

Four years ago to be precise. While there, I rode all of the light and commuter rail lines except SE which I know like the back of my hand and So which I was already familiar with. I also walked every block of the then new DUS. I also experienced the new CDOT Bustang service up to Summit County and back. It was awesome.

I would make the case that I know Denver much better than the average duck; quack quack

[TakeFive]

THIS

Originally Posted by wwmiv;

If you really believe the user is a troll then don’t engage at all. Trolls give up when they don’t have oxygen. On the other hand, people who are sincere tend to continue to engage even in absence of such attention.

He has a bombastic style but it's harmless. He does at times make interesting and fair points. The homeless encampment point was very fair.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This isn't how it works. At least not in Colorado. Put enough homeless people in rich peoples' front yards, and the rich people will all just move to the mountains. This is already happening; remote work has enabled it. And the trade-offs a person makes living proximate to the urban core look a lot different than they did a few years ago. Rich people also tend to have a pretty good insight into the inner workings of government, which, in Denver, is a scary sight. No rich person thinks government isn't trying to fix homelessness - we are throwing absolutely massive amounts of money at it. Rich people question whether government is capable of fixing it, which is a very different thing. Which is how you get to what you hear frequently today: either get it out of my front yard through tougher law enforcement, or we'll take matters into our hands. Whatever that means family to family. (For the 7th Avenue Neighborhood Association, that might mean hiring a private security force - that email came around last week. For many others, it means leaving.)

And this, don't forget this...
https://denverite.com/2022/03/21/rocks-t...ng-cut-off-bike-parking-in-capitol-hill/

[TakeFive]

That's funny!

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

And this, don't forget this...
https://denverite.com/2022/03/21/rocks-t...ng-cut-off-bike-parking-in-capitol-hill/

I hadn't seen this previously. I think this trend started in San Francisco and quickly moved to Seattle. Typically they've brought in small boulders.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Taking out your DOTI frustration on me because they didn't support 'your' sidewalk proposal is misplaced.

Four years ago to be precise. While there, I rode all of the light and commuter rail lines except SE which I know like the back of my hand and So which I was already familiar with. I also walked every block of the then new DUS. I also experienced the new CDOT Bustang service up to Summit County and back. It was awesome.

I would make the case that I know Denver much better than the average duck; quack quack

You think sidewalks are the foundation of my frustration (and half the City's frustration) with DOTI?? Ha.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

And this, don't forget this...
https://denverite.com/2022/03/21/rocks-t...ng-cut-off-bike-parking-in-capitol-hill/

So my three year old is absolutely intrigued by those rocks. She doesn't understand them. They block things, like bike racks and strollers. But at the same time she wants to pick them up and climb on them, because clearly they must be there for somebody's amusement.

If you want to confuse children about the way the world works, drop 10 tons of riprap behind the curb in front of 7-11, and try to answer their questions.

Originally Posted by TakeFive

That's funny!

I hadn't seen this previously. I think this trend started in San Francisco and quickly moved to Seattle. Typically they've brought in small boulders.

This is all over the city now. This one was just the most egregious example given its location and the notoriety of that alley as a place for all sorts of... interesting... activity.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

I don’t read that post as trolling…

What he said was fine, but this person has a history of making extremely antagonistic, sometimes threatening, comments aimed at specific forumers. And has also called us all racists. mr1138's comment was presumably due his surprise that forum moderation continues to tolerate him.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

What he said was fine, but this person has a history of making extremely antagonistic, sometimes threatening, comments aimed at specific forumers. And has also called us all racists. mr1138's comment was presumably due his surprise that forum moderation continues to tolerate him.

Thank you - yes, this is 100% correct.

And let's just revisit that Wiki definition of trolling for a moment...
inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception.

Now, granted this was one of the milder things that this specific forumer has ever posted, but he literally still lobbed a personal insult at another commentor on the forum. He checked at least half the boxes in that definition.

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Maybe it did generate an emotional reply or two, but was that the intent of the post? On balance, I doubt it.

Take a look at one or two of this person's other posts. "Generating an emotional reply or two" was ABSOLUTELY the intent of his post.

Originally Posted by wwmiv

If you really believe the user is a troll then don’t engage at all. Trolls give up when they don’t have oxygen.

Beleive me - I make a concerted point never to address a troll directly. There is a reason I posed my question to the forum as a whole and not to the one who is trolling. There are others who DID react exactly as this person wanted - so he got oxygen. But there is something that works even better than expecting individuals not to respond to the troll - good moderation.

It just makes me sad because this used to be one of the most civil and well moderated discussion environments on the internet. I no longer think this is true.