DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I've always been a huge fan of infrastructure


So I'll easily agree with you - generally. But it's also a simplistic view from ten thousand feet which means you're missing many important details.


Props to wwmiv for understanding capacity as apposed to the silly 'induced demand' crap. But you both miss the most important part.

Talking arterial roads like Speer Blvd

You'll have to update me on Denver but 'down here' Rush Hours are seven hours a day: 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the afternoon which means traffic isn't cruising at 50 mph. It may be crawling along or at a slow steady pace but there's no racing during rush hours.

To a great extent arterial roads are built for peak capacity. I know urbanists like to point out the dearth of traffic to conclude space is being wasted at Three o'clock in the morning.

Thanks for the props, sorry I didn’t nail the point home about peak-hour demand (I do understand that, fwiw).

As to putting Speer underground, I would imagine solutions like how Speer interacts with Broadway and Lincoln are feasible at a number of intersections. Removing traffic lights would allow a reduction in lanes, which is space the city could devote to parkland. The southern terminus at 1st/Corona/Downing would have to remain at-grade, but a roundabout is possible there. Clarkson/Wash might be possible as is Logan/Grant. Idk if any of that is a good idea, essentially turning Speer into Denver’s Lakeshore Blvd or Allen Pkwy. That could end up being a high speed thoroughfare through an urban area.

Also, if the project confines are only between 25 and Colfax in the Auroria campus section, any loss of capacity could likely be picked up by other arterials and DT access points adequately.

I would want to see a traffic study. And again, I would need to see some public transit improvements in tandem with this.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

People also like it's:

-Lack of the poors
-Plentiful and easy parking
-Hostility to the homeless

Agreed

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The kind of people that CC wants don't take transit, they drive-in. Preferably in some sort of luxury SUV or cross-over.

For Uber/Lyft drivers that have the requisite vehicles they thrive on serving places like Cherry Creek.

But for those who want to spend BIG but NOT on transportation then that's when they call me, an ordinary Honda SUV driver. Many will choose to save the Lux fee but leave a nice tip for more basic transportation and I always express my appreciation.

BTW, many ordinary Joe's and Juanita's enjoy spending time at a place like Cherry Creek. Recently, a couple of gals took an Uber to Famous Footwear to look for new shoes. Not finding what they wanted (to spend money on) I picked up the return trip back home. I assume it was just one way to get out of the house and something to do on a Sunday afternoon.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Also, if the project confines are only between 25 and Colfax in the Auroria campus section, any loss of capacity could likely be picked up by other arterials and DT access points adequately.

Going under Colfax through going under Auraria Pkwy (not below grade the whole distance) would be a huge change and accomplishment.

I wouldn't see any additional transit needs than what already exists along with the planned East Colfax BRT.

[wong21fr]

It looks like Steel House might be breaking ground. Construction equipment is on site, though there's no foundation permit issued yet.

[TakeFive]

Cypress Equity Investments Hosts Grand Opening Event for Revel Apartment Community in Aurora
October 25, 2022 - Mile High CRE

Cypress Equity Investments (CEI), a national multifamily developer, hosted Aurora Mayor Mike Coffman at a Grand Opening Celebration on Thursday, October 13 for Revel, a 300-residence transit-oriented apartment community in Aurora. Located just off I-225 and within walking distance of 2nd Ave. & Abilene Station on Denver RTD’s R light rail line, the category-defining garden-style community provides easy access to I-225, Denver International Airport (DIA), and downtown Denver.

Revel Apartments - 291 Dearborn Way Aurora, CO 80011






Images courtesy Revel Apartments

A nice urban-suburban new project?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Going under Colfax through going under Auraria Pkwy (not below grade the whole distance) would be a huge change and accomplishment.

I wouldn't see any additional transit needs than what already exists along with the planned East Colfax BRT.

Sorry, to be more clear: I meant if they decide to pedestrianize a large portion of that corridor that some transit investment is probably necessary. If there are accommodations made to keep capacity at or near what it is at now, transit roughly as it is/planned would be fine.

After reading up on all of the related projects in the area (new to Denver here, sorry), I do think this potential project on Speer is worth it if confined to the area between Colfax and I-25.

[DenverInfill]

I don't believe undergrounding Speer is on the table. The concept under discussion is to shift NB Speer to the west side of the creek between Colfax and Auraria Parkway and narrowing Speer in the process, with some creek alignment as well, to create an extended public space and public access along the downtown side of the creek and to reconfigure parcels that are currently too small or oddly shaped for development to provide opportunities for buildings to frame that public space and provide a strong edge to the downtown side.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

I don't believe undergrounding Speer is on the table. The concept under discussion is to shift NB Speer to the west side of the creek between Colfax and Auraria Parkway and narrowing Speer in the process, with some creek alignment as well, to create an extended public space and public access along the downtown side of the creek and to reconfigure parcels that are currently too small or oddly shaped for development to provide opportunities for buildings to frame that public space and provide a strong edge to the downtown side.

If I remember correctly, a similar design concept was presented in the 2012 Auraria Campus Master Plan (page 12). Are there plan drawings for the current proposal? If it looks anything like that 2012 plan, I think it is a fantastic idea! It has the potential to create a public space that is usable and transform Bell Park into a "front door" to downtown flanking Larimer. The river also looks like it would be more of an amenity and less of a barrier.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

People also like it's:

-Lack of the poors
-Plentiful and easy parking
-Hostility to the homeless

I would go out on a limb and say that Cherry Creek and the surrounding neighborhoods would actively work to sabotage any kind of transit improvements that would impact any of the above mentioned three. A limited shuttle to take convention goers to Cherry Creek is fine, but adding BRT or light rail along Speer would be fought tooth and nail in order to preserve the "character" of CC.

The kind of people that CC wants don't take transit, they drive-in. Preferably in some sort of luxury SUV or cross-over.

I believe this is what the magas call virtue signaling.

As if having a bunch of homeless filling every corner of the city is what we need.
As for your train to cherry creek, lol. That would be utilized by the few heading to cc. Nobody in cc would ever need that stupid train. So as has been mentioned, killing downtown retail would be about all that would ever happen aside from making one of the nicer and cleaner parts of town scary and gross.

Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Sorry, to be more clear: I meant if they decide to pedestrianize a large portion of that corridor that some transit investment is probably necessary. If there are accommodations made to keep capacity at or near what it is at now, transit roughly as it is/planned would be fine.

After reading up on all of the related projects in the area (new to Denver here, sorry), I do think this potential project on Speer is worth it if confined to the area between Colfax and I-25.

Speer is 4 lanes each direction from I-25 to Downing. No arterial needs 4 lanes each way - that's considered a highway regardless of what speed they slap on a sign. Speer doesn't need to be a highway and no, we don't need to see a traffic study (here's why). Traffic studies only look at vehicle movements, they don't consider other tangible benefits ie built environment, parks, peds, cyclists, etc. DOTI already has a disproportionate amount of power within the planning process and we should limit their bad decisions which are only good for cars and trucks.

Moving the north lanes on the south/west side of cherry creek is an excellent idea and one I hope the City considers taking all the way to Downing.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

I believe this is what the magas call virtue signaling.

As if having a bunch of homeless filling every corner of the city is what we need.
As for your train to cherry creek, lol. That would be utilized by the few heading to cc. Nobody in cc would ever need that stupid train. So as has been mentioned, killing downtown retail would be about all that would ever happen aside from making one of the nicer and cleaner parts of town scary and gross.

Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud.

Did I say that a train should go to CC in my post? Or is this just your daily burst of vitrol brought on by the gentrifiers riding their scooters past your place?

[TakeFive]

Hmm, I realized I needed to refresh my memory of Speer Blvd

Originally Posted by laniroj

Speer is 4 lanes each direction from I-25 to Downing. No arterial needs 4 lanes each way - that's considered a highway regardless of what speed they slap on a sign. Speer doesn't need to be a highway and no, we don't need to see a traffic study (here's why). Traffic studies only look at vehicle movements, they don't consider other tangible benefits ie built environment, parks, peds, cyclists, etc. DOTI already has a disproportionate amount of power within the planning process and we should limit their bad decisions which are only good for cars and trucks.

Moving the north lanes on the south/west side of cherry creek is an excellent idea and one I hope the City considers taking all the way to Downing.

Four thru lanes is a lot. That said semantics is always interesting.

I'm hard pressed to think of four lane roads in Phoenix. The difference is that Speer Blvd is an antiquated road design.

Most arterial roads in Phoenix are 6 lanes (3 in each direction) HOWEVER, most intersections consist of 2 left turn lanes and 1 right turn lane but only 6 thru lanes. Four thru lanes without turn lanes is a mess.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Did I say that a train should go to CC in my post? Or is this just your daily burst of vitrol brought on by the gentrifiers riding their scooters past your place?

Yeah, he totally misread your comment.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by laniroj

DOTI already has a disproportionate amount of power within the planning process and we should limit their bad decisions which are only good for cars and trucks.

Moving the north lanes on the south/west side of cherry creek is an excellent idea and one I hope the City considers taking all the way to Downing.

You do tend to conflate things at times.

DOTI is empowered by the City/County of Denver and not the other way around. They do perform very challenging logistics tasks. Policy for this is determined by various groups including elected officials.

It is not unrealistic that four thru lanes near the Auraria campus could work. You'd need to ban turning from those lanes or add turning lanes if/where desired. Going below grade would also enhance that specific area.

In any case, Denver/DOTI will have it's hands full just trying to execute the $1.3 billion in already promised and approved projects from bond issues for the foreseeable future.

[DenvertoLA]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

I believe this is what the magas call virtue signaling.

As if having a bunch of homeless filling every corner of the city is what we need.
As for your train to cherry creek, lol. That would be utilized by the few heading to cc. Nobody in cc would ever need that stupid train. So as has been mentioned, killing downtown retail would be about all that would ever happen aside from making one of the nicer and cleaner parts of town scary and gross.

Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud.

If you think downtown and CC retail is the same, I question if you have been to either...

Of course the rich snobs will try to block a train connecting CC to downtown. B-hills in LA stalled the subway for more than a decade, but in the end they lost because connecting the city provides more value to the community the preserving a rich oasis.

If anything, I'd say lets put the homeless at the rich peoples doorsteps, then the gov might actually do something. haha

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

I believe this is what the magas call virtue signaling.

As if having a bunch of homeless filling every corner of the city is what we need.
As for your train to cherry creek, lol. That would be utilized by the few heading to cc. Nobody in cc would ever need that stupid train. So as has been mentioned, killing downtown retail would be about all that would ever happen aside from making one of the nicer and cleaner parts of town scary and gross.

Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud.

How is it that this forumer gets to continue to post these blatant trolling posts with absolutely no repercussions? I have seen others on this forum get banned for MUCH less. I thought this forum had guidelines - a big one being "No antisocial behavior, trolling, spamming, profanity, etc."

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by mr1138

How is it that this forumer gets to continue to post these blatant trolling posts with absolutely no repercussions? I have seen others on this forum get banned for MUCH less. I thought this forum had guidelines - a big one being "No antisocial behavior, trolling, spamming, profanity, etc."

I don’t read that post as trolling…

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

If you think downtown and CC retail is the same, I question if you have been to either...

Of course the rich snobs will try to block a train connecting CC to downtown. B-hills in LA stalled the subway for more than a decade, but in the end they lost because connecting the city provides more value to the community the preserving a rich oasis.

If anything, I'd say lets put the homeless at the rich peoples doorsteps, then the gov might actually do something. haha

Bolded for emphasis. This is essential to the point I was trying to make.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

If anything, I'd say lets put the homeless at the rich peoples doorsteps, then the gov might actually do something. haha

This isn't how it works. At least not in Colorado. Put enough homeless people in rich peoples' front yards, and the rich people will all just move to the mountains. This is already happening; remote work has enabled it. And the trade-offs a person makes living proximate to the urban core look a lot different than they did a few years ago. Rich people also tend to have a pretty good insight into the inner workings of government, which, in Denver, is a scary sight. No rich person thinks government isn't trying to fix homelessness - we are throwing absolutely massive amounts of money at it. Rich people question whether government is capable of fixing it, which is a very different thing. Which is how you get to what you hear frequently today: either get it out of my front yard through tougher law enforcement, or we'll take matters into our hands. Whatever that means family to family. (For the 7th Avenue Neighborhood Association, that might mean hiring a private security force - that email came around last week. For many others, it means leaving.)

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

You do tend to conflate things at times.

DOTI is empowered by the City/County of Denver and not the other way around. They do perform very challenging logistics tasks. Policy for this is determined by various groups including elected officials.

It is not unrealistic that four thru lanes near the Auraria campus could work. You'd need to ban turning from those lanes or add turning lanes if/where desired. Going below grade would also enhance that specific area.

In any case, Denver/DOTI will have it's hands full just trying to execute the $1.3 billion in already promised and approved projects from bond issues for the foreseeable future.

You know how we know you haven't set foot in Denver in years? Defending DOTI. I am not sure even DOTI defends DOTI these days.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

I don’t read that post as trolling…

"Let’s put the homeless camp in your yard first. Fraud." Yeah.... that's trolling.