Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Belgium has a similar arrangement to Canada, no? Yet it remains a country.

What holds Belgium together is its capital city. If they didn't fear losing Brussels, the Flemish Region would have left Belgium 30 years ago already. The Flemish nationalist parties know that they would lose Brussels (which they still claim as their capital city) if they left Belgium.

There is no similar situation in Canada.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You are the exception which makes Acajack's Rule (les deux solitudes).

My nephew who moved to Quebec from Alberta to look after his mother (my sister) seems to be settling in for the long haul too (probably even after she dies). I guess he's another exception.

I had a look at data, official census data, which is better than casual personal observations.

Oddly, the information regarding province of birth is nowhere to be found on the Statcan website. It seems to be top secret information. Only the Québec statistical office provides that information, and then only for the 2001 census (no data since then). Census results published by Statcan contain tons of other information, including frankly trivial information, but such a basic and important data as province of birth is apparently too sensitive to be published.

So at the 2001 census, out of the Canada-born population of Québec, only 3.8% were born outside of Québec. And one can assume that many of these 3.8% of Canada-born residents of Québec from ROC were Francophones from New Brunswick and Ontario and not Anglo-Canadians who moved to Québec.

Now let's compare with some regions of France at the 2006 census. Aquitaine (capital Bordeaux): 30.6% of the France-born residents of that region were born outside of Aquitaine. Midi-Pyrénées (capital Toulouse): 32.0% of the France-born residents of that region were born outside of Midi-Pyrénées. Brittany: 22.2% were born in rest of France. Alsace: 17.8% were born in rest of France. Rhône-Alpes (capital Lyon): 23.8% were born in rest of France. Corsica: 31.4% were born in rest of France. Etc.

The region with the lowest percentage of France-born residents born outside of the region was Nord-Pas-de-Calais, the French Rustbelt, with 8.1% born in the rest of France, which is more than twice higher than the figure for Québec.

The endogamy (so to speak) of Québec inside Canada is pretty remarkable. I'd be curious to see similar figures for Ontario. For the US, I remember having seen figures for US states a few years ago, and it was in the double digits, like French regions, because Americans, like French people, move a lot across the country.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I'd be curious to see similar figures for Ontario.

Ah, actually I hadn't read the rest of the ISQ document. In the rest of the document they also give the percentage of Canada-born residents in the other provinces of Canada who were born in the ROC. They give only rounded figures.

So at the 2001 census:
- British Columbia: 34% of Canada-born BC residents were born in the ROC (i.e. outside BC)
- Alberta: 32% born in ROC
- New Brunswick: 14% born in ROC
- Ontario: 12% born in ROC
- Québec: 4% born in ROC

No data for the other provinces.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

There wouldn't be any border anyway, like in Ireland, so people would barely notice. Saying that "Ontario would be landlocked" is as odd as saying that Luxembourg is landlocked, which makes no sense in a border-free area.

The only landlocked provinces are Alberta and Saskatchewan.

[lio45]

Found this a very interesting read!

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2022/10/08/au-plq-on-recherche-un-regis-rouge

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lio45

Found this a very interesting read!

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2022/10/08/au-plq-on-recherche-un-regis-rouge

Now I wasn't expecting to see that at all. I can only seeing it working well if the Legault government has trouble in its second mandate.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I had a look at data, official census data, which is better than casual personal observations.

Oddly, the information regarding province of birth is nowhere to be found on the Statcan website. It seems to be top secret information. Only the Québec statistical office provides that information, and then only for the 2001 census (no data since then). Census results published by Statcan contain tons of other information, including frankly trivial information, but such a basic and important data as province of birth is apparently too sensitive to be published.

So at the 2001 census, out of the Canada-born population of Québec, only 3.8% were born outside of Québec. And one can assume that many of these 3.8% of Canada-born residents of Québec from ROC were Francophones from New Brunswick and Ontario and not Anglo-Canadians who moved to Québec.

Now let's compare with some regions of France at the 2006 census. Aquitaine (capital Bordeaux): 30.6% of the France-born residents of that region were born outside of Aquitaine. Midi-Pyrénées (capital Toulouse): 32.0% of the France-born residents of that region were born outside of Midi-Pyrénées. Brittany: 22.2% were born in rest of France. Alsace: 17.8% were born in rest of France. Rhône-Alpes (capital Lyon): 23.8% were born in rest of France. Corsica: 31.4% were born in rest of France. Etc.

The region with the lowest percentage of France-born residents born outside of the region was Nord-Pas-de-Calais, the French Rustbelt, with 8.1% born in the rest of France, which is more than twice higher than the figure for Québec.

The endogamy (so to speak) of Québec inside Canada is pretty remarkable. I'd be curious to see similar figures for Ontario. For the US, I remember having seen figures for US states a few years ago, and it was in the double digits, like French regions, because Americans, like French people, move a lot across the country.

Apples and Oranges. You are comparing Quebec to regions of France. Try comparing multicultural Montreal to regions of France. 35% of Montreal is comprised of visible minorities.

This sort of thing drives the Quebec Nationalists nuts (even though it is, to use Lio's favourite expression, 'perfectly natural' for a big North American city to have such a multicultural makeup):

Future projections
Pan−ethnic Origin Projections (2041) 2041
Population %

European

3,249,000 58.97%

African

673,000 12.21%

Middle Eastern

597,000 10.83%

Arab

496,000 9%

West Asian

101,000 1.83%

East Asian

252,000 4.57%

Chinese

224,000 4.07%

Korean

20,000 0.36%

Japanese

8,000 0.15%

Latin American

213,000 3.87%

South Asian

195,000 3.54%

Southeast Asian

167,000 3.03%

Filipino

85,000 1.54%

Other
Southeast Asian

82,000 1.49%

Indigenous

87,000 1.58%

Other

76,000 1.38%

Projected
Metro Montreal
Population

5,510,000 100%

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710014601

[thewave46]

It is interesting to see the metropolitan area versus outside the metro mentality reflected in different cultures.

More proof that humans are more alike than different, I suppose.

[Acajack]

Post-Quebec election unscientific exit poll of my kids and their friends (ages 18-22):

The CAQ and Québec solidaire are just about even in terms of support.

The Liberals are non-existent except for one friend of North African origins.

Other parties did not register.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Post-Quebec election unscientific exit poll of my kids and their friends (ages 18-22):

The CAQ and Québec solidaire are just about even in terms of support.

The Liberals are non-existent except for one friend of North African origins.

Other parties did not register.

That doesn't really surprise me.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

That doesn't really surprise me.

The popularity of the CAQ among young people did surprise me, though I guess it was borne out in the polls too.

Québec solidaire's support of course surprises no one.

[Architype]

Quebec Korean restaurant owner closes dining hall after threats over lack of French

The owner of Quebec City restaurant Bab Sang has only been in town for a few months, but he may soon pack his bags and leave.

"I'm seriously now planning to move my business to Montreal or Ottawa," he told Noovo Info on Thursday, speaking at his restaurant on Maguire Avenue.

The Korean eatery was the subject of fierce backlash earlier this week after an article in Le Soleil exposed its lack of French-language service.

According to the report, the restaurant's servers don't speak French, and the names of dishes on the menu are in English.

Quebec's language charter dictates that all consumers, including restaurant patrons, have a right to be informed and served in French.

The restaurateur plans to open the doors again once French-speaking staff is hired -- but the process hasn't been easy, as the labour shortage has made finding workers a challenge. . . .

"He told me all he's done to hire French employees, but that it's not working," said Salvail, noting that the staff at Bab Sang are all family members. . . .

"Remember that this person has been in Quebec for four months, he's of Korean origin, who moved to New Brunswick, mainly in Fredericton, for five years. And now we're asking him to speak fluent French?" he said.

I mean, if you are going to open a business in Quebec, you must learn french first, sacré bleu! Shame on him.

[le calmar]

I’ve been to plenty of businesses in Montreal where the owners/employees didn’t speak French. But Quebec City? I feel bad for them, but can’t say I’m surprised. I’m not sure what they were expecting.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

I mean, if you are going to open a business in Quebec, you must learn french first, sacré bleu! Shame on him.

We don't say "sacré bleu", BTW.

Even the French don't say that anymore.

[Acajack]

They're at the very least tone-deaf to their societal surroundings.

To be honest, having a business in Montreal and not offering service in French is also tone-deaf, in addition to ignorant of the basic laws that apply to running a business. I mean, you need to register your business in French, various health and safety, sanitary, legal matters are also in French. That should give people a clue, no?

And the guy says he may move to Montreal, where the exact same laws apply. Yes, Ottawa would be different.

I take the sob story with a grain of salt given that they didn't even bother to offer menus in French. Seems to me these are easily translated.

They also claimed to have received threats and hate messages. Presumably most of those are in French. Perhaps the person who helped them understand those messages could have helped them with the menu translation?

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We don't say "sacré bleu", BTW.

Even the French Quebecers don't say that anymore.

Bwah ha ha, it's like swearing in the 17th century.
Kind of like "tabarnak", right?
It means nothing today.

They don't need to know about swearwords anyway.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Bwah ha ha, it's like swearing in the 17th century.
Kind of like "tabarnak", right?
It means nothing today.
.

Well, I have to admit that if I hit my thumb with a hammer...

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We don't say "sacré bleu", BTW.

Even the French don't say that anymore.

I know, perhaps I am not a master of satire after all.
I also don't say "lard jazus b'y'" either.
But perhaps it is a terrible loss of culture in a sense, n'est-ce pas?
I still try to remain neutral.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Architype

I mean, if you are going to open a business in Quebec, you must learn french first, sacré bleu! Shame on him.

I wouldn't say it's a matter of shame, but it is weird. One wonders why he'd choose Quebec City as his destination?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I wouldn't say it's a matter of shame, but it is weird. One wonders why he'd choose Quebec City as his destination?

Cause it's darn purty...