Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 65

Today’s cancellation count: 1

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Ottawa's main problem currently is we are by far the most COVID cautious city in Canada where many people are still delaying trips/vacations due to COVID. As a result, we are far behind other airports in terms of recovery to our pre-COVID volumes at the airport. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I am often surprised by how many young/healthy people who I talk to who are "not ready to travel". Ottawa is a very conservative and cautious place and the pandemic has really shone a light on it.

We will recover, we will get our European flights back, and we will get new US destinations (hopefully via Porter). But it's going to be a SSSSLLLOOOWWW recovery.

Yes agree but it's also chicken and the egg. Between visitors and myself this year I've had 1 flight from Ottawa and 9 from Montreal and Toronto. I know some will say I'm to blame as they don't know about demand but that's really not something I am going to pay or inconvenience myself over.

In previous years I had done Montreal a few times but never imagined Toronto would make sense but was a visitor so on one end they wanted to see Toronto anyway but it was half the cost of an Ottawa flight that would have added 8 hours to journey time.

Yes return of European flight would be ideal but even regular Toronto or Montreal connectors would help a lot. But if Air Canada doesn't fly to your destination you really need to either use the KLM bus or drive to the airport as the connections aren't there.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes agree but it's also chicken and the egg. Between visitors and myself this year I've had 1 flight from Ottawa and 9 from Montreal and Toronto. I know some will say I'm to blame as they don't know about demand but that's really not something I am going to pay or inconvenience myself over.

In previous years I had done Montreal a few times but never imagined Toronto would make sense but was a visitor so on one end they wanted to see Toronto anyway but it was half the cost of an Ottawa flight that would have added 8 hours to journey time.

Yes return of European flight would be ideal but even regular Toronto or Montreal connectors would help a lot. But if Air Canada doesn't fly to your destination you really need to either use the KLM bus or drive to the airport as the connections aren't there.

It’s been said before in this thread that airlines are not stupid. They may not have their exact YOW demand numbers but they know people from Ottawa drive to YUL. I would put money down and bet that they play dumb so they don’t have to do anything about it because it’s less effort/money/resources to have people drive themselves to one of their hubs. Someone who works for AC said to me once: “Maybe Porter is the kick in the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 AC needs to serve YOW better”. I think they are right. The first thing I thought of when I heard AC bought the XLR’s (whether true or not) is maybe they’re doing it to expand more to Europe as their revenue for North American destinations might be on decline due to the emergence of all these new airlines.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

It’s been said before in this thread that airlines are not stupid. They may not have their exact YOW demand numbers but they know people from Ottawa drive to YUL. I would put money down and bet that they play dumb so they don’t have to do anything about it because it’s less effort/money/resources to have people drive themselves to one of their hubs. Someone who works for AC said to me once: “Maybe Porter is the kick in the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 AC needs to serve YOW better”. I think they are right. The first thing I thought of when I heard AC bought the XLR’s (whether true or not) is maybe they’re doing it to expand more to Europe as their revenue for North American destinations might be on decline due to the emergence of all these new airlines.

I hate people who second guess experts who know their business better than we do but when we had the Frankfurt flight all my business and economy flights To Europe, Africa, South Asia were with Air Canada. When it was off in the winter a few years ago three colleagues and I working on a project made two trips in KLM business class to Africa. That might be uncommon on the bus but it's not all cheapskates doing it. With Gold status on KLM they also stole a few leisure trips the next summer.

[solo748]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

It’s all about numbers. If you want YOW to increase flight options, stop buying tickets where YUL is the starting point. It doesn’t show up as a point of sale in YOW and YUL will get that number. As long as people keep driving to YUL, YOW has no hope. .

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

It’s the Ottawa way; complain about an issue while being contributory to it. It’s always someone else’s job to make things better.

Please. Your comments are absurd for Europe (and beyond) travel ex Ottawa. You think an Ottawa flyer should risk an entire missed day at destination due to the piss-poor YOW<>YUL connector service? Miss meetings or a full day vacation bc the garbage Dash8 was delayed 3 hours for whatever bullsh!t reason AC express tries to blame?

Friend of mine flying YOW-YUL-FCO on AC. She noticed how delayed the YOWYUL service has been and asked to be put on the earlier YOWYUL flight to save from spending a night in MArriott dorval.

AC said sure. .... for an additional $1,200.

Total joke. You guys save YOW's anemic service, the rest of us will make travel decisions that give us the best chance to get to our destination as expected

[Takingoff]

In the big picture, a 2 hour KLM/air France bus is a whole bunch less hassle for a downtown dweller travelling to Europe (no lost luggage or missed connections and not much overall travel time difference). I don't think that this forum will convince many airlines to change their service level to YOW. A bigger catalyst would be an airline (e.g. Porter with a code share with an international carrier) seeking a competitive advantage . That will make the difference. Agree to disagree.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

First time post. I am a frequent flyer. I am losing faith in Ottawa airport authority ever getting its act together. Without a European direct flight, why bother? It's easier flying from Trudeau than risk missed connections (which have been dramatically reduced) or longer connections.

I really want to support YOW, but they aren't even hitting the minimum of where they need to be at this point. The Air France / KLM bus are a much better option than an infrequent dash 8 to Montreal. Fast forward to other bus lines offering peak hour connectors to Trudeau in the near future. Where will YOW be then once traffic patterns are established.

At this point, YOW need a loss leader international carrier to keep the airport from becoming internationally irrelevant (irrespective southern destinations).

Welcome to the forum!

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 70

Today’s cancellation count: 1

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by solo748

Please. Your comments are absurd for Europe (and beyond) travel ex Ottawa. You think an Ottawa flyer should risk an entire missed day at destination due to the piss-poor YOW<>YUL connector service? Miss meetings or a full day vacation bc the garbage Dash8 was delayed 3 hours for whatever bullsh!t reason AC express tries to blame?

Friend of mine flying YOW-YUL-FCO on AC. She noticed how delayed the YOWYUL service has been and asked to be put on the earlier YOWYUL flight to save from spending a night in MArriott dorval.

AC said sure. .... for an additional $1,200.

Total joke. You guys save YOW's anemic service, the rest of us will make travel decisions that give us the best chance to get to our destination as expected

No one here is telling anyone else what to do. We are stating facts, do with it what you will. Whatever the reason is for you to drive to YUL is your business. You can even complain of the low amount of service that airlines have in YOW, I do it all the time. What you can't do is both. That is hypocrisy.

If people are so worried about connections and missing them irrespective of cost, why not connect in YYZ instead? Pre-pandemic and post-pandemic plans seem to have AC flights leaving to YYZ every hour on the hour thanks to the volume of people that start in YOW. In the unlikely situation of a cancelled one, they will just put you on the next one an hour later. I always make sure my layover time is at least 2 hours when doing so. The only routes YUL has that YYZ doesn't have are select France and Middle Eastern destinations, to my knowledge.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

No one here is telling anyone else what to do. We are stating facts, do with it what you will. Whatever the reason is for you to drive to YUL is your business. You can even complain of the low amount of service that airlines have in YOW, I do it all the time. What you can't do is both. That is hypocrisy.

If people are so worried about connections and missing them irrespective of cost, why not connect in YYZ instead? Pre-pandemic and post-pandemic plans seem to have AC flights leaving to YYZ every hour on the hour thanks to the volume of people that start in YOW. In the unlikely situation of a cancelled one, they will just put you on the next one an hour later. I always make sure my layover time is at least 2 hours when doing so. The only routes YUL has that YYZ doesn't have are select France and Middle Eastern destinations, to my knowledge.

To suggest that YOW's current hub and spoke model for travelling anywhere outside the country is not ridiculously inconvenient/expensive/unreliable is disingenuous. Many of us do not have the time to book earlier flights just to accommodate unreliable aircraft or flight cancellations. It may be the case that we just don't have enough volume to support such flights currently and, until we can, I will continue finding ways to travel direct to my destinations.
All while saving a few hundred dollars on a 30-45 minute flight from YOW to YUL/YYZ that may or may not even leave as planned.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

To suggest that YOW's current hub and spoke model for travelling anywhere outside the country is not ridiculously inconvenient/expensive/unreliable is disingenuous. Many of us do not have the time to book earlier flights just to accommodate unreliable aircraft or flight cancellations. It may be the case that we just don't have enough volume to support such flights currently and, until we can, I will continue finding ways to travel direct to my destinations.
All while saving a few hundred dollars on a 30-45 minute flight from YOW to YUL/YYZ that may or may not even leave as planned.

Like I said, this is the individual traveller's business. I personally am not triggered by it. What I am triggered by are those who make starting at another airport a habit and then complain about YOW's options. Nope. I will not accept it.

It's true that we may just not have the demand to certain destinations and that's the reality. Even massive hubs around the world don't have direct to every single destination. But the unknown viable destinations YOW can support will remain unknown as long as travellers continue to leak to other airports, and that too is another unfortunate reality. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way a fan of the hub and spoke model where these big player airlines use YOW as a feeder. I know it's just business and it's not personal but it does suggest that we are not important enough and that our only use is to fill flights in airports that they do consider important, which is why if Porter does make YOW a real hub with codeshare with major international airlines, all my loyalty will go to them even if I have to pay a premium.

[hehehe]

I'm surprised YOW-YUL is only 6x daily on QK. Although hourly mainline AC to YYZ isn't bad. It's so difficult to say what the landscape will look like next summer when we're still sort of transitioning into a post covid world. I just can't see YOW being without Europe service. Maybe LH, or even BA or KL give it a shot if AC doesn't return next summer? (I know it's a bit of a stretch)

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by solo748

Please. Your comments are absurd for Europe (and beyond) travel ex Ottawa. You think an Ottawa flyer should risk an entire missed day at destination due to the piss-poor YOW<>YUL connector service? Miss meetings or a full day vacation bc the garbage Dash8 was delayed 3 hours for whatever bullsh!t reason AC express tries to blame?

Friend of mine flying YOW-YUL-FCO on AC. She noticed how delayed the YOWYUL service has been and asked to be put on the earlier YOWYUL flight to save from spending a night in MArriott dorval.

AC said sure. .... for an additional $1,200.

Total joke. You guys save YOW's anemic service, the rest of us will make travel decisions that give us the best chance to get to our destination as expected

We would need to know more details about your friend’s itinerary. If hers was already purchased and tried to make an itinerary change after the fact on what I guarantee is a basic fare no wonder AC tried to leach her. Otherwise, your friend could have and should have originally booked and flown via YYZ with nearly hourly Rapidair service; but it was probably $27 less to book through YUL or something with a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 connection.

Life’s short, you do you. Complaining about an issue while contributing to its existence won’t earn you empathy from some of us. Happy trails.

[GeoNerd]

People went from admitting to being cheap asses trying to save a few measly bucks by flying out of YUL instead of YOW to becoming international business people afraid of being late for important board meetings in Europe pretty quickly on here.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

In the big picture, a 2 hour KLM/air France bus is a whole bunch less hassle for a downtown dweller travelling to Europe (no lost luggage or missed connections and not much overall travel time difference). I don't think that this forum will convince many airlines to change their service level to YOW. A bigger catalyst would be an airline (e.g. Porter with a code share with an international carrier) seeking a competitive advantage . That will make the difference. Agree to disagree.

Do you think we’re on this forum trying to lobby airlines?

Btw, the KLM/Air France bus is not nearly as damaging as the private vehicle transfer to YUL. At least in the former manner you’re recorded as XDS origin, which is Ottawa Rail Station, on an AF/KL itinerary. In other words XDS-YUL is part of your ticket and conditions of carriage are applicable to it (most importantly the airline’s obligations to you).

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by GeoNerd

People went from admitting to being cheap asses trying to save a few measly bucks by flying out of YUL instead of YOW to becoming international business people afraid of being late for important board meetings in Europe pretty quickly on here.

Yes, the alleged international jet setters have come out of the weeds very quickly. Except real jet setters aren’t concerned about $1200 price differences on basic fares because they don’t book those fares for business travel, nor are they travelling on their own dime. Heck, even public servants get to avoid that fare.

[Takingoff]

[QUOTE=FlyYOW;9742251]Do you think we’re on this forum trying to lobby airlines?


I'm simply pointing out that advocacy takes many forms. People can continue to use inefficient international service out of YOW hoping that their travel patterns will result in a change.

I'm a bit more pragmatic and let economics, time savings and convenience influence my travel choices. As previously mentioned, AC and WJ aren't coming to the rescue any time soon, so why should I line their pockets and make my life more difficult.

I volunteered at the airport, so I'm definitely supportive of YOW. I'm just not going to support any airline in 'hope' that it might someday serve me better.

[YOWflier]

Just curious what advocacy looks like when it’s not a bum in a seat? Flying a “FLY YOW” car flag on one’s car while driving to YUL?

Load factors, yields: pretty much the only KPIs that can move the needle on unsubsidized air service.

[Takingoff]

Ì

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Just curious what advocacy looks like when it’s not a bum in a seat? Flying a “FLY YOW” car flag on one’s car while driving to YUL?

Load factors, yields: pretty much the only KPIs that can move the needle on unsubsidized air service.

You do your thing, I'll do mine. If another carrier wants to take a chance on a perceived underserved market, they will.

My advocacy starts with not giving AC any of my dollars for european travel. Contributing to their load factors and yields by funneling me through YYZ or YUL does nothing but reinforce the existing hub model.

If they don't get my money, perhaps they'll up their service level. I'll spend my money on another airline till then.

[YOWflier]

Your advocacy of what, exactly?