YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

AC YVR-DEL no longer bookable. I'm really surprised by this. Surely the 77L can make this route work. I guess AC calculates that the detour around Russia is killing yields, even on the 77L.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220914-acoct22del



The new bilateral, signed in 2018, is now seat limited.

Apparently EK leaves seats open on their A380 to YYZ, in order to meet the seat limit. It's also why they are 5x weekly, while EY to AUH is 6x weekly to YYZ.

From my understanding, all carriers, EK (5x weekly A380), EY (6x weekly B789/B77W) and soon AC, when they upgauge to 6x weekly B789, will be at the seat limit. There is only room for a new Canadian carrier like WS to enter the market, that's it.

I doubt the yields on India were that high to begin with. Not hard to tip into a non-economic route.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I doubt the yields on India were that high to begin with.

Historically, you are correct. But that is no longer the case. (Although yield being a function of distance, YVR is affected by lower yields the most due to the Russia issue.)

AC has been sending a lot of capacity to DEL of late, from YYZ, YUL and until recently, YVR. They wouldn't have been doing that from their 3 largest hubs if the routes weren't very profitable. Very few international destinations are served by AC from all 3 hubs.

Research shows that the Indian middle class has grown significantly, with an increase in spending power. The number of Indian international students coming to Canada to study has been increasing significantly. They are now in fact the majority of intl students coming here to study. All of this explains AC's recent increase in service to the country, above and beyond the bilateral.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/indian-students-bc-1.6578003

A few months ago, Canada and India discussed expanding the bilateral. Clearly Canadian and Indian airlines want to expand service, not reduce it. Further proof that yields, in general are very good nowadays.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri...rvice-agreement/articleshow/91308506.cms

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

AC YVR-DEL no longer bookable. I'm really surprised by this. Surely the 77L can make this route work. I guess AC calculates that the detour around Russia is killing yields, even on the 77L.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220914-acoct22del

AC even post something on their website mention about the suspension, so surely they want to go back.

And 77L will make it work, but the main issue is AC don't have enough of them, and figured it's better for them to send some to SYD instead of all to DEL. Remember, all 77L are based in YYZ and YYZ-YVR-DEL will require 3 planes.

On top of that, AC would now have to compete with AI, who operate daily from both YVR and YYZ now... So they may be able to compete with longer non-stop, but longer one-stop flights are much tougher.

Wonder if they would be creative and operate the planes with the pattern:
77L YYZ-YVR-DEL-YYZ
789 YYZ-DEL-YVR-YYZ

The 77L have more premium seats, but the total seats are quite similar anyways. This should allow them to operate to DEL from both YVR and YYZ with only 2 77L, and it would also improve yields on YYZ a bit too?

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by nname

AC even post something on their website mention about the suspension, so surely they want to go back.

And 77L will make it work, but the main issue is AC don't have enough of them, and figured it's better for them to send some to SYD instead of all to DEL. Remember, all 77L are based in YYZ and YYZ-YVR-DEL will require 3 planes.

On top of that, AC would now have to compete with AI, who operate daily from both YVR and YYZ now... So they may be able to compete with longer non-stop, but longer one-stop flights are much tougher.

Wonder if they would be creative and operate the planes with the pattern:
77L YYZ-YVR-DEL-YYZ
789 YYZ-DEL-YVR-YYZ

The 77L have more premium seats, but the total seats are quite similar anyways. This should allow them to operate to DEL from both YVR and YYZ with only 2 77L, and it would also improve yields on YYZ a bit too?

The Ukraine war is really helping AI out. I think we'll see this route come back eventually, but it depends a lot on the fleet deliveries AC gets and the Russia situation.

[phesto]

Looking at flights to PHX near the end of the month/early October. The only non-stop offered is an AC CRJ-900 and it appears that economy is sold out on several dates (including the date I want).

How is this the only service on this route? Is WJ coming back? I recall from previous trips circa 2018/2019 that there were multiple daily options.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by phesto

Looking at flights to PHX near the end of the month/early October. The only non-stop offered is an AC CRJ-900 and it appears that economy is sold out on several dates (including the date I want).

How is this the only service on this route? Is WJ coming back? I recall from previous trips circa 2018/2019 that there were multiple daily options.

WS is winter seasonal on the route and comes back in November.

[zahav]

Air India is not being cut off, Air India is allowed to fly in Russian airspace. It's Air Canada that can't, hence why this keeps getting pushed back/cancelled. It doesn't surprise me, their advantage was non-stop flights, and now that they stop in Dublin it's not as desireable. And Air India is doing daily 777s, so that's also not helping. I'd rather have Air India at this point, a more exotic foreign tale operating a bigger plane, yes please! But also want AC to come back, it's a very crucial route. I really have no idea how long this Russia thing will last, and even if the war ends, if Russia will reopen it's airspace or punish western airlines by keeping it closed

[nname]

Looks like F8 had released the schedule for S23. This is the current plan out of YVR:

3x daily YYZ, YEG, YYC
10x weekly YKF
7x weekly YUL
4x weekly LAX, SFO
3x weekly LAS, YOW, YWG, YXE
2x weekly PVR, SJD

YVR will be reassigned as base "8". All YVR domestic routes will be 8xx, US routes 18xx, and Mexican routes 28xx, except these routes with foreign base number
YVR-YUL 1xx
YVR-YYZ 6xx

[casper]

Originally Posted by zahav

Air India is not being cut off, Air India is allowed to fly in Russian airspace. It's Air Canada that can't, hence why this keeps getting pushed back/cancelled. It doesn't surprise me, their advantage was non-stop flights, and now that they stop in Dublin it's not as desireable. And Air India is doing daily 777s, so that's also not helping. I'd rather have Air India at this point, a more exotic foreign tale operating a bigger plane, yes please! But also want AC to come back, it's a very crucial route. I really have no idea how long this Russia thing will last, and even if the war ends, if Russia will reopen it's airspace or punish western airlines by keeping it closed

I think it is less Russia punishing Canada and more Canada punishing Russia. We banned Russian aircraft from our airspace and Russia retaliated. We also banned Canadian aircraft from entering Russia.
Even if it re-opened with Russia banned from SWIFT, there would be no way for Air Canada to pay for air traffic services. When/if Canada drops its restriction Russia will likely do the same.

India's PM had recently publicly told Putin it is time for peace, not a time for war and of the importance embracing democracy. At the same time India is still willing to do business with Russia.

I think the more hardline attitude Canada has adopted is far more appropriate and I don't think Russia is going to reach a point where Canada would even consider removing restrictions for at least year if not two.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Looks like F8 had released the schedule for S23. This is the current plan out of YVR:

3x daily YYZ, YEG, YYC
10x weekly YKF
7x weekly YUL
4x weekly LAX, SFO
3x weekly LAS, YOW, YWG, YXE
2x weekly PVR, SJD

YVR will be reassigned as base "8". All YVR domestic routes will be 8xx, US routes 18xx, and Mexican routes 28xx, except these routes with foreign base number
YVR-YUL 1xx
YVR-YYZ 6xx

Will YVR be their largest operating base (most flights?)

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Will YVR be their largest operating base (most flights?)

No, YYZ will have 123 weekly departures next summer with 7 planes. YVR is second largest at 104 departures and 4 planes.

Estimate for other bases YEG/YXX/YYC/YKF with 3, and YOW with 2.

For the current winter, YVR is scheduled with 5 planes. So not sure if they'll move the fifth plane to another base, or going to add (many) more routes out of YVR later, or run this particular flights out of YVR instead (I currently count it as one of the YYZ plane)

F8 605	B737-800MAX	D	YYZ - YVR	08:00 - 10:10
F8 600	B737-800MAX	D	YVR - YYZ	10:55 - 18:25
F8 603	B737-800MAX	D	YYZ - YVR	19:35 - 21:50
F8 602	B737-800MAX	D	YVR - YYZ	23:00 - 06:30

F8 602 is still the only red-eye flight in the entire Flair network.


If anyone curious, here are the flights out of YYZ:

3x daily YVR, YYC
2x daily YEG, YWG
12x weekly YUL
7x weekly YHZ, YXX
4x weekly JFK, YQT
3x weekly BNA, YYJ, YYG, YSJ
2x weekly FLL, LAS, YXE
1x weekly CUN

[Johnny Aussie]

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220919-tknw22inc

TURKISH AIRLINES NW22 INTERCONTINENTAL ADJUSTMENTS – 18SEP22

Istanbul – Vancouver 3 weekly A350-900XWB scheduled for entire NW22 (Previous: 787-9 replaces A350 01NOV22 – 29NOV22)

[nname]

AC adds YVR-IAH starting Dec 16, 2022, 1x daily A220 scheduled until end of April.

AC1300 YVR0845 - 1508IAH 223 D
AC1301 IAH1630 - 1915YVR 223 D

With the use of 13xx flight number, looks like it may be temporary when the UA flight is cut? 13xx and 14xx series are currently used for tertiary sun routes.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

AC adds YVR-IAH starting Dec 16, 2022, 1x daily A220 scheduled until end of April.

AC1300 YVR0845 - 1508IAH 223 D
AC1301 IAH1630 - 1915YVR 223 D

With the use of 13xx flight number, looks like it may be temporary when the UA flight is cut? 13xx and 14xx series are currently used for tertiary sun routes.

Was wondering when this route would be added by AC.

Maybe it will stick around for the summer as well. A great aircraft for routes like this.

DFW and AUS have been added to the S23 schedule too. AC serving DFW, IAH and AUS would be a trifecta!

SJC also showing back next summer too

Happy to see AC continue to expand its transborder network from YVR.

I bet we see IAD added soon too.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by nname

AC adds YVR-IAH starting Dec 16, 2022, 1x daily A220 scheduled until end of April.

AC1300 YVR0845 - 1508IAH 223 D
AC1301 IAH1630 - 1915YVR 223 D

With the use of 13xx flight number, looks like it may be temporary when the UA flight is cut? 13xx and 14xx series are currently used for tertiary sun routes.

Seems to effectively be replacing YYC-IAH, so it will probably stick around.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Seems to effectively be replacing YYC-IAH, so it will probably stick around.

Yep probably & AC's YYC - Houston IAH route will be become seasonal service moving forward likely?

Will see what happens.

[Johnny Aussie]

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220922-brnov22lh

EVA Air this week filed additional update to its planned long-haul service for November and December 2022, including aircraft changes for planned new route to Milan and Munich. As of 22SEP22, planned operation as follows.

Taipei Taoyuan – Vancouver eff 09NOV22 777-300ER replaces 787-9/-10, 7 weekly (The 777-300ER will be maintained until 25MAR23)

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220922-brnov22lh

EVA Air this week filed additional update to its planned long-haul service for November and December 2022, including aircraft changes for planned new route to Milan and Munich. As of 22SEP22, planned operation as follows.

Taipei Taoyuan – Vancouver eff 09NOV22 777-300ER replaces 787-9/-10, 7 weekly (The 777-300ER will be maintained until 25MAR23)

I just came back from a week long vacation in Thailand flying EVA air, so I've experienced both their 777 and 787. Switching to 777 means their premium economy seats become available, as their 787 lacks them. Some of their 777 are still running 3-3-3 abreast in economy so it'll be more comfortable flying long haul. However, I liked their 787 more.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I just came back from a week long vacation in Thailand flying EVA air, so I've experienced both their 777 and 787. Switching to 777 means their premium economy seats become available, as their 787 lacks them. Some of their 777 are still running 3-3-3 abreast in economy so it'll be more comfortable flying long haul. However, I liked their 787 more.

Looks like it' the 3-3-3, 323 seats variant. So overall there will be less seat compared to original plan (daily 787-10), but much much more premium seats.

[wabooba]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

/edit ...

I bet we see IAD added soon too.

As the capital of the USA, do you think seasonal or year-round? The traffic doesn't seem that large. I seem to recall (?) United with 5x/wk Airbus 320. Not a really big market, it seems.
what IS the largest eastern US market in #/$ from Chicago eastwards, (New York, Miami, etc)??? ... and what are the pax#s for IAD? How big a market is Washington DC for YVR, even potentially?
Thank you.