Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0 - Page 337

YOWflier · #**6721** Posted **Aug 19, 2022, 2:37 PM**

The city’s decision to designate YOW lands as a CIPA, in conjunction with YOW’s creation of an air service development fund, suggests YOW is not restricted in this regard. But, you can be sure AC et al will be looking for a piece of the pie.

https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...l-airport-community-improvement-plan-yow

fanofYOW · #**6722** Posted **Aug 19, 2022, 2:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

The city’s decision to designate YOW lands as a CIPA, in conjunction with YOW’s creation of an air service development fund, suggests YOW is not restricted in this regard. But, you can be sure AC et al will be looking for a piece of the pie.

https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...l-airport-community-improvement-plan-yow

I'm very well expecting AC to add routes depending on Porter's extent to the expansion. If Porter codeshares with a major US carrier, and offers an SFO route, it would trigger AC to do something since it would probably mean less people connecting in YVR on AC.

YOWflier · #**6723** Posted **Aug 19, 2022, 3:05 PM**

Depending on what Porter does, they will add indeed. The questions are whether or not they succeed in killing Porter, and if so, if they then retract.

Stacmon · #**6724** Posted **Aug 19, 2022, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Depending on what Porter does, they will add indeed. The questions are whether or not they succeed in killing Porter, and if so, if they then retract.

Hopefully they wouldn't succeed, but even in the event that they do, perhaps they won't retract new non-stop routes if there is good uptake for them

fanofYOW · #**6725** Posted **Aug 19, 2022, 3:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Depending on what Porter does, they will add indeed. The questions are whether or not they succeed in killing Porter, and if so, if they then retract.

My absolute nightmare. I hope not. I'm hoping people see value in the direct flights from Porter and use that instead. Porter does have the highest client satisfaction in the country and I can't be the only one that is looking for an alternative to AC so that I don't have to use them.

kwoldtimer · #**6726** Posted **Aug 19, 2022, 4:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I saw that online as well. According to Flair, YKF has reached out to Swoop and WS in the past with no response back. Flair is investing in YKF to expand the airport, so why should they allow others to come in and benefit from it with little effort? Now that Swoop is seeing how successful YKF is, they now want a piece of it? I'm so happy for Flair and YKF to be honest. This is the perfect example of an airline seeing potential in an airport, expanding service, and the others watching that airport's numbers rise. Now the others who never cared about it, care.

I'm very excited to know where Porter intends to fly from YOW, but I'm also equally excited to see what routes from other carriers will pop up after because of it.

No Flair money in the YKF expansion, afaik.

fanofYOW · #**6727** Posted **Aug 19, 2022, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No Flair money in the YKF expansion, afaik.

I was under the impression they have financially helped the airport expansion. I could be wrong. Anyone know for sure?

Dominion301 · #**6728** Posted **Aug 20, 2022, 1:57 PM**

Today’s departure count: 60

Today’s cancellation count: 0

Dominion301 · #**6729** Posted **Aug 21, 2022, 4:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I was under the impression they have financially helped the airport expansion. I could be wrong. Anyone know for sure?

Nope. What YKF have is route exclusivity agreements with airlines (aka Flair) on some routes. WestJet cried foul, but when the airport initially offered routes to WS and flanker WO, they weren’t interested…before Flair came along and “swooped” in. Now that F8 are thriving at YKF, of course Swoop are now decrying it as “not fair” because WestJet’s flanker brand can’t be used to try and destroy F8 at YKF. The YKF airport has of course called their bluff and said Swoop are welcome to have route exclusivity deals to other destinations that are currently unserved. (Un)shockingly WO have yet to start serving YKF exposing Swoop for one of the things it is - a predator. I get it and I also get how WS have switched some routes over to WO as a better fit such as YOW-YEG. The real head scratcher is the routes on which they compete with themselves, namely the other two YOW routes.

Today’s departure count: 66

Today’s cancellation count: 1

YOWetal · #**6730** Posted **Aug 21, 2022, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Correct. Airports can cut breaks on fees to help support any new route. YKF has been in the newest about having exclusivity agreements on some routes to ensure a predator can't come sweeping in...important for an airport looking to take a big leap from very little service to appropriate service levels for a metro of over 1/2 million.

I wonder why Gatineau doesn't try and enter the market. They could do very well as a low cost alternative with YOW's high fees. Stealing any provincial taxes for tickets and fuel would also cover a lot of subsidy from the province.

PHrenetic · #**6731** Posted **Aug 21, 2022, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301

..........
The real head scratcher is the routes on which they compete with themselves, namely the other two YOW routes.

Good Day.

? in this period of experimentation, in this locale, ....... to see what they can get away with, by seeing sales and load factors on the self-competing offerings ?

fanofYOW · #**6732** Posted **Aug 21, 2022, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Nope. What YKF have is route exclusivity agreements with airlines (aka Flair) on some routes. WestJet cried foul, but when the airport initially offered routes to WS and flanker WO, they weren’t interested…before Flair came along and “swooped” in. Now that F8 are thriving at YKF, of course Swoop are now decrying it as “not fair” because WestJet’s flanker brand can’t be used to try and destroy F8 at YKF. The YKF airport has of course called their bluff and said Swoop are welcome to have route exclusivity deals to other destinations that are currently unserved. (Un)shockingly WO have yet to start serving YKF exposing Swoop for one of the things it is - a predator. I get it and I also get how WS have switched some routes over to WO as a better fit such as YOW-YEG. The real head scratcher is the routes on which they compete with themselves, namely the other two YOW routes.

Today’s departure count: 66

Today’s cancellation count: 1

Like I said, perfect example of an airline seeing potential in an airport, then adding routes, and now others that have ignored the airport's offers in the past are now all of a sudden so interested in it. I'm happy for Flair and now YKF has deserving service for a city of 600K. I bet AC lost some passengers from there who used to drive to YYZ.

Dominion301 · #**6733** Posted **Aug 22, 2022, 1:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yeah. But in the case of YOW they may well have clauses with AC that restrict their ability to offer extreme discounts to newcomers.

Unlikely. Back when I used to work at YOW, the Airport Authority's incentive was for any new route up to 1 year off all landing and terminal fees fully rebated along with marketing support.

Today’s departure count: 69

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 2

Truenorth00 · #**6734** Posted **Aug 22, 2022, 9:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 66

Today’s cancellation count: 1

The cancellation was WestJet and we had a work visitor coming from the US changing in Toronto who spent the night on a bench at Pearson.

WestJet has so few YOW-YYZ flights that I'm starting to wonder if Porter might have a business case as a reliable partner on this route.

BenYOW · #**6735** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 1:16 PM**

Aerial view of CYOW as of mid-August 2022. The Taxiways A, AA, BB, and CC rehabilitation project is well under way in this shot, as is the construction of Taxiway R.

YOWflier · #**6736** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 1:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW

Aerial view of CYOW as of mid-August 2022. The Taxiways A, AA, BB, and CC rehabilitation project is well under way in this shot, as is the construction of Taxiway R.

Nice. Do you have a full res version of that to share for zooming in?

Dominion301 · #**6737** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 7:55 PM**

Today’s departure count: 58

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 4

Dominion301 · #**6738** Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 12:31 AM**

I was in Etobicoke on Saturday and spotted the following in and around YYZ:
-China Eastern 77W landing
-AN-124 parked on the ramp where old T2 used to stand
-Cuna Southern 787 departing
-EK 380 parked at T1

Given how little China capacity is permitted it was remarkable to catch two Chinese birds

BenYOW · #**6739** Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 2:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Nice. Do you have a full res version of that to share for zooming in?

Sure thing - Link

fanofYOW · #**6740** Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 2:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW

Aerial view of CYOW as of mid-August 2022. The Taxiways A, AA, BB, and CC rehabilitation project is well under way in this shot, as is the construction of Taxiway R.

Is taxiway R going to lead to the "secret" private hangar? Is that where it's going to be located?