What is the least "WASP" city in the United States?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Isn’t that based on absurd tropes though?

Could you imagine the backlash if Al Pacino played a Boca Jew based on stereotypes?

I dunno, was it? Other than his name, I'm not sure they ever highlighted that he was of Italian decent. It was probably much more absurd that you had all these people with New York accents in mid-century Milwaukee. Also, the show was actually created by an NY Italian (Garry Marshall) that many people mistook for Jewish.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I dunno, was it? Other than his name, I'm not sure they ever highlighted that he was of Italian decent. It was probably much more absurd that you had all these people with New York accents in mid-century Milwaukee. Also, the show was actually created by an NY Italian (Garry Marshall) that many people mistook for Jewish.

Yes. Most people mistakenly think that Gary and Penny Marshall were Hebrews.

[iheartthed]

Thinking about it more, they probably gave the Fonz an Italian identity because a Jewish character on TV still wasn't very kosher in the 1970s. Rob Reiner's character on "All in the Family" had some fairly obvious Jewish tropes attributed to him (being an educated, liberal, 1970s lefty that seems sympathetic to socialist ideas) but they wrote him as being "Polish" instead of Jewish.

[Docere]

And Mike Stivic, Polish American from Chicago, had a NY accent.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Thinking about it more, they probably gave the Fonz an Italian identity because a Jewish character on TV still wasn't very kosher in the 1970s. Rob Reiner's character on "All in the Family" had some fairly obvious Jewish tropes attributed to him (being an educated, liberal, 1970s lefty that seems sympathetic to socialist ideas) but they wrote him as being "Polish" instead of Jewish.

Those aren’t really Jewish tropes. Jewish tropes are people who are pushy, self-centered narcissists. If Seth MacFarlane played Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, Madoff, etc. and exhibited those characteristics, people would be outraged.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Those aren’t really Jewish tropes. Jewish tropes are people who are pushy, self-centered narcissists. If Seth MacFarlane played Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, Madoff, etc. and exhibited those characteristics, people would be outraged.

Those were definitely Jewish tropes of that era.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Those were definitely Jewish tropes of that era.

Even in that era (and well before it), Jewish tropes were of pushy, greedy, self-centered narcissists.

During the Civil War, for example, Grant and Sherman routinely criticized Jews as exhibiting those traits. In fact, they even tried to ban Jewish merchants from conquered areas of the south because they were allegedly acting against Union interests for personal gain and greed.

Jewish “stereotypes” are alive and well on Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those characters are all played by Jews. If Seth MacFarlane, Alec Baldwin, and Tina Fay played Larry, Suzie, etc., the show would be condemned.

[Quixote]

Ashkenazi Jews are genetically a mixture of Levantine and Italian/Greek, and given that they exist in large numbers in NYC, it’s no surprise that Jewish and Italian actors often exchange roles.

Jason Biggs (Italian) plays a Jewish character in American Pie. Fran Drescher, one of the most iconic NY Jews, played an Italian mother in the movie “Jack” (a turd).

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Ashkenazi Jews are genetically a mixture of Levantine and Italian/Greek, and given that they exist in large numbers in NYC, it’s no surprise that Jewish and Italian actors often exchange roles.

Jason Biggs (Italian) plays a Jewish character in American Pie. Fran Drescher, one of the most iconic NY Jews, played an Italian mother in the movie “Jack” (a turd).

Yes, but as noted, when Jews play Italians, they resort to absurd tropes.

If Seth MacFarlane played a Boca Jew and acted greedy, self-entitled, and rude, he’d be criticized.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Well, nobody complained when two Jewish actresses were cast to play two Italian-American characters on "The Golden Girls."

Jews aren't really "generic white Americans", but rather (barring converts) an ethnic / religious group from the ancient Levant.

Italian / Jewish interchangeability seems extremely appropriate. Same with Greek, Lebanese, Turkish etc.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Jews aren't really "generic white Americans", but rather (barring converts) an ethnic / religious group from the ancient Levant.

Italian / Jewish interchangeability seems extremely appropriate. Same with Greek, Lebanese, Turkish etc.

Not really. Italians intermarry with other Christians. Jews are a very identifiable ethnic group. No one will mistake Larry David Jeff Greene, Susie Essman, etc. for being English, Italian, or any other Western European Christian group.










Jews also have a very distinct culture. This article is from The Times of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israelis-are-blunt-and-rude-you-got-a-problem-with-that/amp/

“Israelis are blunt and rude. You got a problem with that?“

Here’s another article from a Jewish publication:

https://forward.com/culture/465321/is-interrupting-jewish-and-rude-deborah-tannen/?amp=1

“Is interrupting inherently Jewish (and inherently rude)?“

[JManc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Ah, okay.

There are a lot of NY Jews that can pull off the NY Italian (Henry Winkler as Fonzi from Happy Days, for instance), but the Costanzas seemed so obviously Jewish.

Jon Bernthal (Jewish) was excellent at playing the punisher, an Italian character.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Jews aren't really "generic white Americans", but rather (barring converts) an ethnic / religious group from the ancient Levant.

Italian / Jewish interchangeability seems extremely appropriate. Same with Greek, Lebanese, Turkish etc.

Andrew Dice Clay was Jewish but his standup persona was Italian.

[Docere]

Boston MSA

Irish 22.3%
English/American 14.1%
Italian 14.1%
French/French Canadian 8.8%
German 6.2%
Polish 3.6%
Portuguese 2.3%

Philadephia MSA

Irish 19.2%
German 15.7%
Italian 13.7%
English/American 10.7%
Polish 5.2%

Irish is the largest ancestry in both Boston and Philadelphia, Italian share is basically identical in both, but Boston more "known" for Irish and Philadelphia for Italians. Jewish population is also pretty much identical. However being in New England, Boston is more has very little German ancestry and French Canadian and Portuguese representation that Philadelphia lacks.

[ilcapo]

Originally Posted by JManc

Jon Bernthal (Jewish) was excellent at playing the punisher, an Italian character.

He Played an italian character in the Sopranos Movie as well (Many Saints).
Also some Sopranos actors are jewish but plays italian. David Proval, Jamie Lynn-Sigler etc.

[JMKeynes]

Jews object to the Shylock character. I suspect that if Shylock were played by an Irishman, the sh..it would hit the fan.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-cult...-merchant-venice-anti-semitic-180958867/

“Four Hundred Years Later, Scholars Still Debate Whether Shakespeare’s “Merchant of Venice” Is Anti-Semitic.”

[Crawford]

Philly suburbs (at least those in PA) feel a bit more all-American than burbs in NY and Boston. I think it's bc Philly Italians tend to move to South Jersey, and there are a ton of German-Americans in PA.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Philly suburbs (at least those in PA) feel a bit more all-American than burbs in NY and Boston. I think it's bc Philly Italians tend to move to South Jersey, and there are a ton of German-Americans in PA.

What about the Jews there?

Jews I’ve met in places like Dallas and Houston seem more “all American,” as you state, than Jews in NY. I don’t know many Philly Jews though.

[Crawford]

Lower Merion, a close-in suburb, is the Orthodox Jewish enclave. I assume secular Jews are mostly in/around Main Line these days.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Lower Merion, a close-in suburb, is the Orthodox Jewish enclave. I assume secular Jews are mostly in/around Main Line these days.

But do the secular Jews there have a distinct culture like they do in NY, LA, and Boca, or do they act “all American,” as you noted above.

When I was a young lawyer, I was once told by an older Jewish lawyer to act Jewish when I appear before Jewish judges. (He was later fired for sexual harassment.)