Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

If you live west of Ontario, you’ve probably never had real shawarma. The “shawarma” you’re eating is Turkish donair. There’s a big difference in the meat (Shawarma is vastly superior). The Halifax donair is a spin on the Turkish donair, not shawarma.

Donair meat is puréed and seasoned then put on a spit to cook. It’s shaved when served resulting in a texture resembling well cooked luncheon meat. Shawarma meat is sliced before being put on a spit. It’s never puréed. The texture is closer to steak.
.

Thanks. This is exactly the difference I was trying to describe but I could not find the exact words.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, pâté chinois does get translated as shepherd's pie by Loblaws and other companies but if you've had shepherd's pie in the UK (or, I might surmise, anywhere that hasn't been influenced by pâté chinois) it's different enough from pâté chinois.

Many a British person has ordered pâté chinois (translated as shepherd's pie on the menu) and exclaimed that that's no shepherd's pie. Ask them - they will tell you.

Now, I have no idea if I were to order shepherd's pie in a pub somewhere like Listowel, ON or Selkirk, MB (no reference to pâté chinois on the menu there I am sure) if it would resemble more what they eat in the UK or the dish in Quebec.

There are many theories as to the origins and name of pâté chinois. The main one I always hear is that it was a cheap meal made from easily available and inexpensive food items that was given to the Chinese workers who built the transcontinental railway.

Thanks, you've satisfied my curiosity. I tend not to ruminate a lot over the origins of food, nor do I eat Shepherd's Pie all that often. However, I am often curious when I see "translations" that don't appear to be literal, and this was one that I have been wondering about for awhile.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by lio45

On the “a letter campaign needs to happen to try to correct this” aspect, I can tell I’ve seen much worse (Mixed Nuts / Écrous mélangés for a bag of almonds/cashews/pecans/hazelnuts, for example) and did not bother contacting the producer, so I’m certainly not about to waste time fighting this uphill battle

I would never do this either, as the naming of food isn't important to me. I only care what's in it and how it tastes.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are lots of kinds of smoked meat, but the Montreal one AFAIK is the only one that is referred to a "smoked meat" or "Smoked Meat" by that name and that name only.

If you asked for a "smoked meat" sandwich, people wouldn't think you're asking for pastrami or smoked salmon, even if technically both are smoked meats.

This was my take on it as well. I did wonder why it was called "Montreal Style", but another poster answered that already.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I guess the Belgians have no concern for their waistlines or their blood pressure (french fries and waffles).

Throw in the Congo and it becomes obvious they do not have a single shred of human decency.

Flanders or Wallonia???

Add a big glass of beer to the mix and some tasty chocolates, and yeah those Belgians are really out to kill us all!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Add a big glass of beer to the mix and some tasty chocolates, and yeah those Belgians are really out to kill us all!

Stella is my favourite beer.

And, I had a waffle for breakfast too (no lie).

I guess I’m doomed..........

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I'm curious now, is there an accepted, accurate french name for Shepherd's Pie? .

The closest thing in France would be "hachis parmentier" but no one there says it's the same thing as shepherd's pie. And the Wikipedia pages for example in either language don't correspond seamlessly with each other.

Looking at the ingredients and how they are cooked and prepared (and also photos), pâté chinois might actually be closer to hachis parmentier than it is to true shepherd's pie as served in the UK.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This was my take on it as well. I did wonder why it was called "Montreal Style", but another poster answered that already.

I call it "soggy pastrami" but to each his or her own.

[Luisito]

That's something I miss from MTL, the shawarama joints. You can get some decent shawarma here in Winnipeg. Not quite as good as Mtl though.

I miss Halifax style donairs too. I saw a few comments online saying u can get Halifax donairs here in Winnipeg, but everytime I go try it, it's not east coast donairs. They're good just totally different from east coast donairs.

Maybe I should open an east coast donair joint here.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Luisito

South Asian and halal food will be dominant in Canada, except for maybe in Quebec and the maritimes.

Sign me up, South Asian food is amazing

Originally Posted by Luisito

Are you in Winnipeg? Where did you get the donair?? I have yet to try any east coast style donairs here.

I had the donair in Halifax a couple of weeks ago, at this place. It was basically identical to what I'd get at home in Winnipeg at Shawarma Khan except that it had the sweet donair sauce instead of garlic sauce. They're both good, but I think I prefer the garlic sauce.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of local shawarma joints advertising donairs on the menu (I think Lamar in St. Vital has them) but I've never ordered one. I might try one next time I'm there now that I have a proper frame of reference for east coast donairs

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Stella is my favourite beer.

And, I had a waffle for breakfast too (no lie).

I guess I’m doomed..........

Life is for living, bro... enjoy!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I call it "soggy pastrami" but to each his or her own.

Not a bad description. Still delicious though!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

I had the donair in Halifax a couple of weeks ago, at this place. It was basically identical to what I'd get at home in Winnipeg at Shawarma Khan except that it had the sweet donair sauce instead of garlic sauce. They're both good, but I think I prefer the garlic sauce.

It's a little weird to go there for a donair. That is a shawarma place, although it's possible what they have is the same (e.g. do they steam it as they should?). The old classic donair place was KOD (Blowers St one is gone now) and it had the atmosphere of an old pizza joint with nothing even vaguely healthy looking on the menu; the donair options are along the lines of "would you like pepperoni on it". We had donair pizza with garlic fingers more often than donairs themselves. It is/was popular local junk/drunk food. You would get the same thing in the little corner stores that had pizza and donairs, which is all the takeout there was in a lot of rural areas.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's a little weird to go there for a donair. That is a shawarma place, although it's possible what they have is the same (e.g. do they steam it as they should?). The old classic donair place was KOD (Blowers St one is gone now) and it had the atmosphere of an old pizza joint with nothing even vaguely healthy looking on the menu; the donair options are along the lines of "would you like pepperoni on it". We had donair pizza with garlic fingers more often than donairs themselves. It is/was popular local junk/drunk food. You would get the same thing in the little corner stores that had pizza and donairs, which is all the takeout there was in a lot of rural areas.

You remind me that I think I may have only had the original KOD donairs just once or twice.

Greco's arguably ripped off KOD in the 1980s with massive advertising campaigns and a major expansion to most corners of Atlantic Canada.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's a little weird to go there for a donair. That is a shawarma place, although it's possible what they have is the same (e.g. do they steam it as they should?). The old classic donair place was KOD (Blowers St one is gone now) and it had the atmosphere of an old pizza joint with nothing even vaguely healthy looking on the menu; the donair options are along the lines of "would you like pepperoni on it". We had donair pizza with garlic fingers more often than donairs themselves. It is/was popular local junk/drunk food. You would get the same thing in the little corner stores that had pizza and donairs, which is all the takeout there was in a lot of rural areas.

I realized when I set foot inside and saw the somewhat trendy looking interior that it may not have been the most conventional place for a donair. But I was with my family and that is always a tricky balance of dietary needs... my wife is celiac and my kids are picky, and the menu there fit the bill.

I leave it to someone more versed in Halifax donairs than I to pass judgment on how typical their product is, but they claimed that the product they sold me was a donair and I took it at face value.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You remind me that I think I may have only had the original KOD donairs just once or twice.

Greco's arguably ripped off KOD in the 1980s with massive advertising campaigns and a major expansion to most corners of Atlantic Canada.

Fun fact. Back when I was a starving med student at Dalhousie University, I shared a second floor apartment (with two other med students) in that building on Blowers, immediately above KOD.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Fun fact. Back when I was a starving med student at Dalhousie University, I shared a second floor apartment (with two other med students) in that building on Blowers, immediately above KOD.

I believe there are still KODs on Lacewood and Quinpool. Hows your pancreas and gall bladder?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by esquire

(Also, why do people in the maritimes say "scollops")

The more important question is why people from places that do not produce a single scallop are pronouncing it incorrectly...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I call it "soggy pastrami" but to each his or her own.

Yeah, but it's soooo good!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by esquire

I realized when I set foot inside and saw the somewhat trendy looking interior that it may not have been the most conventional place for a donair. But I was with my family and that is always a tricky balance of dietary needs... my wife is celiac and my kids are picky, and the menu there fit the bill.

I leave it to someone more versed in Halifax donairs than I to pass judgment on how typical their product is, but they claimed that the product they sold me was a donair and I took it at face value.

Mezza is a good place to eat, but as someone123 says, their specialty is shawarma (which is made from chicken breast meat and is absolutely nothing like a donair). The first clue that they are not a "go to" place for donairs is that they call them "donair wraps"...

But seriously, their donairs are alright but they are not what I would call a typical "Halifax donair", like you would get at KOD or similar. I find that their donair meat isn't spiced as aggressively as a "standard" donair, and the meat tends to be shaved thinner and somewhat 'soggy' due to the fact that they shave it (with the same tool as the shawarma) in advance and put it into some kind of drawer to keep it warm until needed. Then they heat it up on the grill with some oil when they are assembling the donair for a customer. Their sauce tends to be somewhat runny as well, in that you no longer taste it when you're halfway through the donair - it has no "staying power"...

I like them alright, but would say (my opinion) that they are a 6 or 7 out of 10 compared to the donair specialty shops.

Also, they have chicken souvlakia skewers that are spiced with more of a middle eastern flavour than traditional Greek souvlakia. In addition their hummous has more of a smoky flavour than the more garlicky flavour that I'm accustomed to. Again, it's alright, but not the best.

Their shawarma is very good IMHO, but I haven't had shawarma from other places so I can't say how it stacks up.

I'm sure this differs for others, but my favourite characteristics of a donair would be that it is cut directly from the spit when it's being made, so that you have a little of that cooked "crust" on the outside of the meat (and it's not soggy); it should be cut with a large, sharp knife such that each piece has a little thickness to it and it's not a bunch of uniform slices, the spices have to give you a kick in the rear to let you know they are there, the donair sauce has to have some thickness to it (somewhere along the line of prepared mustard for viscosity, IMHO), freshly diced onions and tomatoes, and a fresh pita that is grilled just enough to have a combination of softness with a slight crunch on the outside (but not grilled enough that it breaks apart when you're eating it), and no excessive oil used in the grilling process.

JMHO, and TBH I haven't had a "standard" donair in a few years, so I'm going mostly by memory.

Perhaps it's time to get back to Quebec discussions?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm interested in how pate chinois got it's name. There is nothing vaguely Chinese about this food at all. I suppose it's like french fries, which I suspect has nothing to do with the French.

Nobody really knows the origin although plenty of probabilities have been brought forward. It's assumed that 'Chinois' was just added to the name in the same way that the food was added together to make the dish.

Chinese hot pot is referred to as fondue Chinoise in French as well, soooo....