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  #16581  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2022, 6:35 PM
msmariner msmariner is offline
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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
I agree with all of you actually, the Jazz frequencies were kind of ridiculous for routes like YYJ before. I'm sure the choice was appeciated by people on the island and business, but it was overkill and probably a $ loser. As people have said, the target market on those flights is connecting pax, and the frequency was way higher than it needed to be to accomodate these flights.

As for smaller routes, the difference between 1 and 2 daily flights, or 2 and 3 daily flights, is fairly significant. It really can change plans and connections drastically. 18 down to 9 or 10 is still providing a lot of connectivity. But 1 or 2 really limits it. So capacity is higher due to the DH4s, but losing a frequency would be annoying on those routes. But if the routes are strong enough, AC will add frequency for sure. They aren't out of the loop, they constantly adjust their regional schedules. I think a lot of the reduction was COVID related, so once we are back to normal traffic, they could add back some frequencies. The 2 down to 1 daily is really brutal though, 2 should be the minimum frequency for any regional route, IMO. A morning and evening is the minimum, otherwise the flights are useless (or very inconvenient) to a ton of travellers. I'm thinking of YZF, YYD, and YZP. These should all be at least 2 daily, I hope they bump them up again.

AC is really hammering YYC, the YYC-YEG flights were frequent up until COVID, despite the competition from WS. They have really done a thorough analysis of their routes and made it clear which ones were going to get trimmed. I don't feel like they are even fighting for it anymore. Basically just either keeping the status quo or reducing, to keep WS honest I guess.

I feel like YVR is really an anomoly amonest the largest Canadian airports (YYZ, YVR, YUL, and YYC) in terms of it's split amongst WS and WS and general traveller preference. YYZ is dominated by AC, YYC is dominated by WS, and YUL has a strong (but not dominant) AC, but almost no WS. YVR has very strong AC and WS (AC obv more just due to their network reach), but WS is very popular from YVR and an important market. Just judging from people's preferences, I feel like Vancouver peeps are split between preferring WS or AC. But YYC is overwhelmingly WS, and YYZ is certainly more in the AC campe than WS, and at YUL, WS isn't a factor. Kind of reminds me of LAX. Their airline split is fascinating to me. They are then only airline to be a true hub for every major US airline. And the split between airlines is breathtakingly close:

1 Delta Air Lines 5,113,928 20.85%
2 American Airlines 4,430,550 18.06%
3 United Airlines 4,040,619 16.47%
4 Southwest Airlines 2,506,337 10.22%
5 Alaska Airlines 1,870,460 7.63%
(wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_International_Airport#cite_note-165 )

Those carriers are very close to each other, with none being overly dominant. For large airports, this is rare. Having all the major carriers compete on many routes is not common, it's a testament to it's traffic draw and diversity.

While YVR isn't in the same league as LAX by any means, I feel like it is very diverse and both AC and WS have strong pressence, plus lots of international carriers. YYZ is similar to a degree, but I'd argue their AC service really dominates, despite WS having a decent showing. AC is still very clearly dominant to a higher degree than YVR.

YUL is diverse in that it has strong AC and strong international carriers, but has nothing from WS. YYC is the only one of the 4 that are really in fortress hub territory. WS's dominance is supreme, it's taken AC on at every turn, with their European expansion taking away any sector dominance AC might have had. AC is likely not going to fight anymore on these, they will operate them as long as they make money (and more than what could be made elsewhere) but probably aren't putting any more in. But who knows, AC could surprise everyone and start basing more planes at YYC and launch routes again, if oil stays high and the $$$ flows like it's 2007, then they might. But all indications are they are dialing back YYC service.

YVR is definitely hustling right now, and attracting more routes and new airlines than would be expected during "recessionary" times. Let's hope the traffic pans out and they stick, but it is a boost of confidnce to see foreign carriers and AC launch new and exciting routes, they obviously chose them for an educated reason and not just rock paper scissors. The math behind the scenes must be positive
Just a comment on your last paragraph. While YVR is attracting new routes to Asia/South Pacific. How much if the traffic going to those new routes are because of the lack of Chinese routes/Carriers flying out of YVR? There is a lot of slack needed to filled for connections to India/SE Asia/Australia etc
     
     
  #16582  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2022, 10:31 PM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmariner View Post
Just a comment on your last paragraph. While YVR is attracting new routes to Asia/South Pacific. How much if the traffic going to those new routes are because of the lack of Chinese routes/Carriers flying out of YVR? There is a lot of slack needed to filled for connections to India/SE Asia/Australia etc
I would say the effect would probably not that much. Going to Australia through China would be a huge detour anyways, and some of the routing (NAN) aren't even possible before the pandemic. For South East Asia, probably yes, but please note that most of Asia (beyond China) are still in a pandemic mode right now and social distancing is still in effect for most countries. The demand is still very much depressed compared to Europe and North America travel so there may not be that much of a slack to be filled right now.

I'd say the closure of HK and CX reducing the YVR-HKG route probably helped though. CX was SQ's main competitor for North America's routes, and SQ had been stealing from CX for those traffic since the pandemic begin... Likely YVR-SIN would not exist if CX is still running double or triple daily to YVR as SQ would not be able to compete with few weekly services. But not sure if CX will ever go back to it's heyday though.

AC had been studying BKK or SIN for at least the past 10 years, and the closure of China may likely be what finally make them pull the trigger. Maybe AC would fly to SIN if not for the service from SQ.

I feel DEL from AI is going to happen either way. Service between India and China is rather limited anyways (for the population, and for serving the Canada-India demand). The closure of Russian airspace probably helped AI way more than the closure of China.

As for other service... The lack of Chinese passenger actually hurt more for new service to AUS and MIA rather than helping it.
     
     
  #16583  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 12:15 AM
zahav zahav is offline
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I think there's lot of variables for traffic, but regardless, getting new routes and carriers is positive, since some cities just have lost service without anything else to come fill the void. The fact these have launched are a sign the traffic demand is there. And not having flights from China will give these new routes a chance to breathe and grow on their own. So I think once China does resume, it will rely much more on Chinese demand than connecting demand, which is strong on its own. I'd rather have lots more Australia, Singapore, Bangkok, and India service direct service than and keep CX service at daily. And CX is apparently planning to go back to daily with one of the NYC services stopping here (no 5th freedom though apparently).
     
     
  #16584  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 4:41 AM
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Philippine Airlines winter update

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220801-prnw22na

Philippine Airlines recently filed adjustment to Northern winter 2022/23 season,
effective 30OCT22:

Manila – Vancouver 1 daily 777-300ER
     
     
  #16585  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 6:06 AM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie View Post
Philippine Airlines winter update

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220801-prnw22na

Philippine Airlines recently filed adjustment to Northern winter 2022/23 season,
effective 30OCT22:

Manila – Vancouver 1 daily 777-300ER
I think this is the same equipment and frequency they used for this summer?

PR restored North American service very quickly as well, and was running full pre-pandemic service ever since late-winter or early-spring? Seems like they're filling in for the SE Asia connecting traffic as well.
     
     
  #16586  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 8:38 PM
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YVR’s Europe August summary.

Total 84 flights per week on 10 carriers (8 foreign) to 11 destinations

Mix of 388/744/77W/772/789/359/343/788/763/75W equipment

AC 30 weekly
LHR 14 weekly 789
FRA 7 weekly 77W
ZRH 5 weekly 788
DUB 4 weekly 788

LH 14 weekly
FRA 7 weekly 744
MUC 7 weekly 359

BA
LHR 7 weekly 388

KL
AMS 7 weekly 772

WS
LGW 7 weekly 789

AF
CDG 5 weekly 772

DE
FRA 4 weekly 763

FI
KEF 4 weekly 75W

TK
IST 3 weekly 77W

WK
ZRH 3 weekly 343
     
     
  #16587  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 8:57 PM
Denscity Denscity is offline
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Wow what plane variety!
Does another Canadian city have more?
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  #16588  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Wow what plane variety!
Does another Canadian city have more?
That’s just Europe. Unfortunately Asia too hard to summarise as it’s all over the place.
But throw in BR 78Xs, KE 333s and CX 35Ks as well into the mix at least.
FJ will be operating 332s as well
Variety isn’t a problem at YVR!
     
     
  #16589  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 10:21 PM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie View Post
That’s just Europe. Unfortunately Asia too hard to summarise as it’s all over the place.
Let me try... This list ignores any cargo-only or one-way passenger flights, and assume all fights scheduled will operate. I guess this should be a good compromise.

Total 83 flights a week on 17 carriers to 16 destinations

AC 31x weekly
SYD 10x weekly 789
NRT 7x weekly 789(5)+788(2)
ICN 5x weekly 77W
BNE 4x weekly 789
HKG 3x weekly 789 (via ICN)
PVG 2x weekly 789 (via ICN)

KE
ICN 7x weekly 789

PR
MNL 7x weekly 77W

NH
NRT 5x weekly 789

JL
NRT 5x weekly 763

BR
TPE 5x weekly 789(4)+78X(1)

CX
HKG 4x weekly 35K

CI
TPE 3x weekly 359

AI
DEL 3x weekly 77W

SQ
SIN 3x weekly 359

QF
SYD 3x weekly 789

NZ
AKL 3x weekly 789

CA
PEK 1x weekly 77W (via SHE)

3U
CTU 1x weekly 359

MF
XMN 1x weekly 789

HU
SZX 1x weekly 789

FJ
NAN 1 flight 359

MU and CZ still flies to YVR with cargo-only flights. So this will not count in the list above. PR have 7x weekly tech-stop at YVR for flights from YYZ and JFK.

Not sure if I miss anything? If not, then YVR will have more flights to Europe than Asia this August. But from September and onward, Asia will once again have more flights.

Last edited by nname; Aug 2, 2022 at 12:18 AM.
     
     
  #16590  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 11:17 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denscity View Post
wow what plane variety!
Does another canadian city have more?
YYZ usually has 1 or 2 more. YUL has the same number. No other airport comes close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie View Post

Mix of 388/744/77W/772/789/359/343/788/763/75W equipment
YYZ has all of those, except for the 343 I believe. But they instead have the A332 (TS), Max 9 (FI), Max 8 (AC, WS) and the A321LR (SAS, TP, TS, Air Azores).

YUL has all of those except the A388/B744/757, but we have the A332 (TS, KL), Max 8 (FI, AC) and the A321LR (TP, TS, Air Azores)

Last edited by thenoflyzone; Aug 1, 2022 at 11:45 PM.
     
     
  #16591  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
Let me try... This list ignores any cargo-only or one-way passenger flights, and assume all fights scheduled will operate. I guess this should be a good compromise.

Total 83 flights a week on 17 carriers to 16 destinations

Not sure if I miss anything? If not, then YVR will have more flights to Europe than Asia this August. But from September and onward, Asia will once again have more flights.
Well done! Who knows if you’ve missed any but very impressive.

So yeah throw in the 35Ks, 78Xs and the upcoming 332s and YVR has a very impressive variety of intl heavies.

Not longhaul or widebodies but AM is operating 3 daily to MEX on 7M8s too

Not many airports getting the 4 holer combos of 388, 744 and 343 these days

Last edited by Johnny Aussie; Aug 2, 2022 at 12:28 AM.
     
     
  #16592  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 3:51 AM
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Klazu Klazu is offline
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Yeah, YUL doesn't come even close to the exotic variety of wide-bodies that YVR sees.
     
     
  #16593  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2022, 2:37 AM
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It looks like from November 14- December 11 2022, British Airways is reducing London LHR- Vancouver YVR flights from 7 to 4x weekly.

British Airways in the last few days extended London Heathrow – Vancouver service reductions, scheduled in the fourth quarter of 2022. Previously scheduled from 14NOV22 to 27NOV22, service reduction from 7 to 4 weekly is now extended to 11DEC22. New 4-class 777-300ER aircraft is scheduled in November and December 2022.

14NOV22 – 27NOV22 Day x246
29NOV22 – 11DEC22 Day x135

BA085 LHR1710 – 1900YVR 77W
BA084 YVR2105 – 1435+1LHR 77W

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220803-ba4q22yvr

Not too surprising as Winter season Canada - London UK & Europe flights are usually less busier & see some frequency reductions every year.
     
     
  #16594  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2022, 4:04 AM
ninjakafi_81 ninjakafi_81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calfan12 View Post
Not too surprising as Winter season Canada - London UK & Europe flights are usually less busier & see some frequency reductions every year.
On the flip side, Air Canada will be up gauging YVR-LHR to the 400 seat 77W.

Quote:
Air Canada during second half of Northern winter 2022/23 season plans to increase capacity on Vancouver – London Heathrow route. From 01JAN23 to 25MAR23, this route will be operated by 400-seater Boeing 777-300ER, instead of 787-9 Dreamliner.

Following schedule from 01JAN23 to 10MAR23.

AC860 YVR1820 – 1150+1LHR 77W D
AC861 LHR1430 – 1615YVR 77W D
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220803-ac1q23yvrlhr
     
     
  #16595  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2022, 5:11 AM
zahav zahav is offline
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The BA reduction is only for 4 weeks, it's nothing major. Air Canada's upgauge is more noteworthy, as it is for a big chunk of the entire winter period
     
     
  #16596  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2022, 12:12 PM
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Air India increasing YVR-DEL to daily effective 1 Sept operated by 77Ws.

Flights remain daily until the end of October - will most likely get extended further.
     
     
  #16597  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2022, 12:30 AM
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A huge month as YVR cracks 1.9 million in June a 500% increase over last year

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2022/06---june/june-traffic-update.pdf

TTL 1,906,610
DOM 1,068,893
INTL 837,717 (TransB 433,524 Other int 404,193)

Overall an excellent result despite Asia Pacific still very subdued. It’s a sleeping giant!

Last edited by Johnny Aussie; Aug 5, 2022 at 12:40 AM.
     
     
  #16598  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2022, 1:14 AM
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I was in the new part a few weeks ago, it looks nice, very empty though, once things get back to normal, until then if you are flying out you can get a lot of seating to yourself to stretch out.

2022-08-04_06-03-39 by snub_you, on Flickr

2022-08-04_06-03-45 by snub_you, on Flickr

great plane watching spots
2022-08-04_06-03-50 by snub_you, on Flickr

2022-08-04_06-03-55 by snub_you, on Flickr

2022-08-04_06-04-00 by snub_you, on Flickr

Atrium was closed due to covid, the available standing space could accomodate 5 people? very small area
2022-08-04_06-04-05 by snub_you, on Flickr

New spaces for food retailers, seating available upstairs
2022-08-04_06-04-10 by snub_you, on Flickr

the area around the atrium makes "sea" noises
2022-08-04_06-04-14 by snub_you, on Flickr

can't see them but the upper area had quite a few people using the tables
2022-08-04_06-04-18 by snub_you, on Flickr

2022-08-04_06-04-23 by snub_you, on Flickr

fake sea stuff
2022-08-04_06-04-28 by snub_you, on Flickr

the blue part on the atrium is a video screen thing with sealife swimming around
2022-08-04_06-04-32 by snub_you, on Flickr

bonus Luthansa 747, the Queen of the skies.
2022-08-04_06-04-37 by snub_you, on Flickr

2022-08-04_06-04-44 by snub_you, on Flickr
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  #16599  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2022, 1:30 AM
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I'm curious of where does gate 63 and 65 lead to... You scan boarding pass first, enter the gate then go downstairs to take the bus?

This is different from the setup for 56 and 57 where you go downstairs first to a separate waiting area.

Seems like 59, 60, 61 are also in a separate waiting area downstairs? Or they just doesn't exist.
     
     
  #16600  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2022, 1:34 AM
NewfBC NewfBC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
I was in the new part a few weeks ago, it looks nice, very empty though, once things get back to normal, until then if you are flying out you can get a lot of seating to yourself to stretch out.
Can't really stretch out much with those arm rests.. unless you're really short

Ron.
     
     
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