Broadway Subway - Millennium Line Extension to Arbutus | U/C

[Jimbo604]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCejV4_r5385FqramJNitP0Q/videos

A YouTuber called HelloWorld has posted a current walking video tour of each of the six station locations (July 24th).

[Changing City]

The tunneling around Heather Street might prove challenging. Here's West Broadway in 1909. (The same rain caused a steam train to derail in Burnaby, killing 23 Japanese workers).


[UBC Uno Langmann Collection]

[WarrenC12]

They did extensive testing around that area, hopefully it's well understood.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The tunneling around Heather Street might prove challenging. Here's West Broadway in 1909. (The same rain caused a steam train to derail in Burnaby, killing 23 Japanese workers).


[UBC Uno Langmann Collection]

Challenging in which way?

[jollyburger]

Timeline on lots of BC flood events

On November 28, a “cloudburst” dropped 4.5 in. (114.3 mm) of rain. In Vancouver, a large section of Broadway between Heather-Bridge (now Cambie) streets washed away. A huge amount of material was literally sluiced away into False Creek. Heather Street Creek did serious damage on 9th Avenue on the night of November 27-28. On the afternoon of November 29, it broke through the 9th Avenue embankment at Heather Street and worked its way to False Creek. The flood backed up at 9thAvenue, in its downward course wrecked the 8th Avenue bridge over the creek. At 7th Avenue, where several buildings were feared to be swept away the crest passed without doing damage. The occupants of several houses along the edge of the ravine were asked to evacuate.

The city engineer stated that his department had been working for some time on a large drain down Laurel Street, which would take some of the water now coming down Heather Street. This drain had so far been extended only as far as 10th Avenue, and had been of no service during the emergency on November 27-28 (The Vancouver Daily Province, November 30, 1909).

https://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wsd/public_safety/flood/pdfs_word/floods_landslides_south1.pdf

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

i dont think those creeks/streams are to worry about anymore. basically all of them were culverted or dewatered with the sewer system being built.

[jollyburger]

Seems like they build the Cambie Storm Main near VGH in 1911 from around Heather Park.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Challenging in which way?

Challenging in the sense that the picture is of West Broadway at Heather, except that West Broadway had washed away at that point, (creating Broadway Falls for a while). They chanelled Heather Creek, that caused the washout, into a new sewer outfall into False Creek, and then put the street back. When the tunneling machine passes through, it won't hit the normal glacial material, but a pocket of infilled material which will have less integrity. No doubt they know about it, and have planned accordingly (and it's might be why the test rig was drilling in that area a lot), but it will nevertheless be a challenge to keep the street where they'd like to keep it - over the top of the tunnel, rather than falling into it.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Wonder how likely it'd be to get Heather Creek back (once the subway's finished)?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Wonder how likely it'd be to get Heather Creek back (once the subway's finished)?

not at all likely. 0% chance. the most you *could* see would be green infrastructure as some kind. such as swales, rain gardens, etc. though i don't know if that is planned at this point.

[jollyburger]

Yeah I guess there's a chance there might be some settling with the infill. Here's some of the geophysical testing that they were doing along the line.

• Video Link

I think they also specifically did testing along Heather Street which seems different from the other geophysical testing that seems to have been above all of the station boxes.

https://www.broadwaysubway.ca/app/upload...ysical_BroadwayHeather_UPDATE_draft2.pdf

[NicholasHui]

The traffic at Broadway next to Arbutus Skytrain Station is shifted on the newly traffic deck. It is the last traffic deck next to the proposed skytrain station at Broadway to be completed and opened except if the other traffic decks don't have four lanes per traffic deck.

[scryer]

I'm resurrecting this because this is by far one of the weirdest comments I have seen on this site. My apologies to the other forumers for me responding to this at the end of July.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I will straight up say I do not care about business owners. Most of them do not pay the employees that they need to be successful a living wage.

Correct - small storefront businesses typically pay a minimum wage as determined by the province.

The fact that you don't care about business owners is disturbing as they directly impact the city's experience and contribute significantly to a city's local culture and provide jobs. And I'm talking about businesses of all sizes in this particular instance.

Remember: even Starbucks, McDonalds, and Lululemon started out as small businesses that grew into global franchises. Franchises that still pay the slave wages that you talk about below.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I also don't care about slave jobs for kids.

This is ignorant and out of touch.

Those kids won't be considered viable for mid-level decent paying jobs unless they actually have some job experience under their belts. That's why I called those opportunities stepping stone positions - it allows individuals who are just entering into the job market to use that experience to lead into something greater.

Try applying for a mid-level job without any work experience. Spoilers: you won't get called in for an interview even if you went to Harvard.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I also don't care about slave jobs for those at or below the poverty line.

Effective economies, and I hate the overuse of this word, are actually diverse and it would have opportunities for individuals of all skill sets to improve their own employment status if they choose to pursue the skills necessary. And what that means is that able-bodied individuals with less skills are able to gain skills and experience in order to secure the higher paying positions that you talk about.

This also can be applied to a micro scale as well since older/successful smaller businesses will have wage tiers that they can offer to their employees. Take Cartems for example - they are franchised locally in the city and they have Managers, Regional Managers (I think?), Branding & Marketing professionals, and minimum wage workers in their locations. Cartems started out as a local small business and with its success it was able to develop into a local franchise over time now offering career opportunities beyond the minimum wage positions.

I also really don't know why you want to label these jobs as slave jobs since the province literally regulates a minimum wage that business owners have to pay which is much more than most other provinces. But whatever, if you think that sensationalism is going to work for your biases and "points" then by all means...

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I also don't care about the loss of business to other businesses that try to also pay slave wages.

You think an accounting firm that handles small business payables pays its bookkeepers and accountants a minimum wage? Or that a local supplier pays its warehouse staff who use heavy machinery minimum wage? Or that a trucking company (that would deliver less goods because of less small businesses ordering) pays its truckers minimum wage?

Please get a grip.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I also don't care about commercial space when there is a homeless problem.

And where do you think that these homeless populations are going to work when they get reintegrated back into society? They ain't coming back to society as software engineers - I will tell you that much.

Those transitionary populations are going to have to start somewhere. And finding a way to bridge a homeless individual back into society with a job (whether it's a minimum wage job or better) essentially re-skilling them is actually a part of reintegrating them back into society where the individual feels valued.

Homelessness isn't an issue that you can just throw money at (which, btw, we HAVE been doing for the last 20 years...); those are INDIVIDUALS that we are talking about, who need a job market to bridge themselves into.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

In short, I do not care if they cannot make a living if they are doing it while hurting the community by not providing a living wage.

Having minimum wage jobs available for those individuals who meet those skillsets is still better than having no jobs. And having those kinds of businesses benefits a community more than having empty lots. Have you forgot how much vibrancy local restaurants actually bring to neighbourhoods? Vancouver is actually quite known for its local food scene if you didn't know.

The only point where I will sort of throw you a bone is that I do agree that the region needs to prioritize adding jobs to the region that pay a living wage over small businesses. But that wasn't the point of the exchange between us; the point is that these small businesses are suffering and lucky enough the local government is actually offering assistance to these small businesses that have been impacted.

I also think that you, along with many others, are missing a crucial point that I made in that these small businesses will have to meet certain criteria in order to qualify for assistance. Meaning that not every small business is going to get assistance because they won't actually qualify for it.

So stop worrying about supporting a business that was going under before the pandemic. It likely won't qualify for assistance.

I will end on this: swimmer_spe, you have the right to vote and voice your opinions based on your beliefs that small businesses contribute nothing to the city of Vancouver. That is a right that you are born with and by all means, exercise it. In reality your personal feelings about small businesses has nothing to do with the impacts the last 3 years have had on them.

But your apathy towards the detriments of local small businesses that have had to deal with the pandemic PLUS Broadway construction impacts; reveals you possessing a very narrow understanding of basic city economics and you possibly possessing a superiority complex that I do not have the capabilities to unpack on a forum for all others to learn from. Job opportunities need to be available for all levels of skill sets in order for a city to function. Period.

Honestly, I don't think that you executed your points with a lot of grace since most of your points were very subjective (at best). I actually think that your points demonstrate that you have a lot of learning still to do when it comes to how small businesses function in a city. And I also think that you are very narrow minded, focusing on a gross-wage number figure of an unskilled individual as opposed to seeing the bigger picture when it comes to small businesses.

I personally believe that it's fine for small businesses to get some taxpayer assistance who qualify for it since they have bared the brunt of the last 3 years, because I actually do support small businesses like I support mid-large businesses. And I understand the impacts having small businesses has on the vibrancy of a city.

And with that, I am exiting this conversation (hopefully).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by scryer

I'm resurrecting this because this is by far one of the weirdest comments I have seen on this site. My apologies to the other forumers for me responding to this at the end of July.



Correct - small storefront businesses typically pay a minimum wage as determined by the province.

The fact that you don't care about business owners is disturbing as they directly impact the city's experience and contribute significantly to a city's local culture and provide jobs. And I'm talking about businesses of all sizes in this particular instance.

Remember: even Starbucks, McDonalds, and Lululemon started out as small businesses that grew into global franchises. Franchises that still pay the slave wages that you talk about below.



This is ignorant and out of touch.

Those kids won't be considered viable for mid-level decent paying jobs unless they actually have some job experience under their belts. That's why I called those opportunities stepping stone positions - it allows individuals who are just entering into the job market to use that experience to lead into something greater.

Try applying for a mid-level job without any work experience. Spoilers: you won't get called in for an interview even if you went to Harvard.



Effective economies, and I hate the overuse of this word, are actually diverse and it would have opportunities for individuals of all skill sets to improve their own employment status if they choose to pursue the skills necessary. And what that means is that able-bodied individuals with less skills are able to gain skills and experience in order to secure the higher paying positions that you talk about.

This also can be applied to a micro scale as well since older/successful smaller businesses will have wage tiers that they can offer to their employees. Take Cartems for example - they are franchised locally in the city and they have Managers, Regional Managers (I think?), Branding & Marketing professionals, and minimum wage workers in their locations. Cartems started out as a local small business and with its success it was able to develop into a local franchise over time now offering career opportunities beyond the minimum wage positions.

I also really don't know why you want to label these jobs as slave jobs since the province literally regulates a minimum wage that business owners have to pay which is much more than most other provinces. But whatever, if you think that sensationalism is going to work for your biases and "points" then by all means...



You think an accounting firm that handles small business payables pays its bookkeepers and accountants a minimum wage? Or that a local supplier pays its warehouse staff who use heavy machinery minimum wage? Or that a trucking company (that would deliver less goods because of less small businesses ordering) pays its truckers minimum wage?

Please get a grip.



And where do you think that these homeless populations are going to work when they get reintegrated back into society? They ain't coming back to society as software engineers - I will tell you that much.

Those transitionary populations are going to have to start somewhere. And finding a way to bridge a homeless individual back into society with a job (whether it's a minimum wage job or better) essentially re-skilling them is actually a part of reintegrating them back into society where the individual feels valued.

Homelessness isn't an issue that you can just throw money at (which, btw, we HAVE been doing for the last 20 years...); those are INDIVIDUALS that we are talking about, who need a job market to bridge themselves into.



Having minimum wage jobs available for those individuals who meet those skillsets is still better than having no jobs. And having those kinds of businesses benefits a community more than having empty lots. Have you forgot how much vibrancy local restaurants actually bring to neighbourhoods? Vancouver is actually quite known for its local food scene if you didn't know.

The only point where I will sort of throw you a bone is that I do agree that the region needs to prioritize adding jobs to the region that pay a living wage over small businesses. But that wasn't the point of the exchange between us; the point is that these small businesses are suffering and lucky enough the local government is actually offering assistance to these small businesses that have been impacted.

I also think that you, along with many others, are missing a crucial point that I made in that these small businesses will have to meet certain criteria in order to qualify for assistance. Meaning that not every small business is going to get assistance because they won't actually qualify for it.

So stop worrying about supporting a business that was going under before the pandemic. It likely won't qualify for assistance.

I will end on this: swimmer_spe, you have the right to vote and voice your opinions based on your beliefs that small businesses contribute nothing to the city of Vancouver. That is a right that you are born with and by all means, exercise it. In reality your personal feelings about small businesses has nothing to do with the impacts the last 3 years have had on them.

But your apathy towards the detriments of local small businesses that have had to deal with the pandemic PLUS Broadway construction impacts; reveals you possessing a very narrow understanding of basic city economics and you possibly possessing a superiority complex that I do not have the capabilities to unpack on a forum for all others to learn from. Job opportunities need to be available for all levels of skill sets in order for a city to function. Period.

Honestly, I don't think that you executed your points with a lot of grace since most of your points were very subjective (at best). I actually think that your points demonstrate that you have a lot of learning still to do when it comes to how small businesses function in a city. And I also think that you are very narrow minded, focusing on a gross-wage number figure of an unskilled individual as opposed to seeing the bigger picture when it comes to small businesses.

I personally believe that it's fine for small businesses to get some taxpayer assistance who qualify for it since they have bared the brunt of the last 3 years, because I actually do support small businesses like I support mid-large businesses. And I understand the impacts having small businesses has on the vibrancy of a city.

And with that, I am exiting this conversation (hopefully).

Still don't care.

Will never care.

It is time that we remove the shackles and be free.

It is time to make it the right that everyone has a safe home, clean water, and food to eat. Anyone against it, can screw off.

[wabooba]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It is time to make it the right that everyone has a safe home, clean water, and food to eat. Anyone against it can screw off.

Total agreement. The problem is, how to fund it, organize it all, implement it, and make sure that people in need get what they need without slipping through the cracks. Excellent goals, but just how to do anything so colossal by nature is where I get stuck. Opinions welcome.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wabooba

Total agreement. The problem is, how to fund it, organize it all, implement it, and make sure that people in need get what they need without slipping through the cracks. Excellent goals, but just how to do anything so colossal by nature is where I get stuck. Opinions welcome.

The problem that first needs to change is the attitudes that people do not deserve the basics of life unless they work enough.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by wabooba

Total agreement. The problem is, how to fund it, organize it all, implement it, and make sure that people in need get what they need without slipping through the cracks. Excellent goals, but just how to do anything so colossal by nature is where I get stuck. Opinions welcome.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The problem that first needs to change is the attitudes that people do not deserve the basics of life unless they work enough.

It sounds like you're talking about some version of a basic income.

Getting somewhat back on topic, I wonder how much influence this would have on future Skytrain lines. I personally think it would be more for transportation across the rest of BC than within Metro Van ... but who knows?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It is time to make it the right that everyone has a safe home, clean water, and food to eat. Anyone against it, can screw off.

Everyone in Canada does have access to a safe home, clean water, and food to eat. It might not be where they want it to be, or the quality they like, but it's always there. No one in Canada (save for extreme examples) is dying from chronic starvation, chronic malnutrition, chronic dehydration, or chronic water-bourne illness and basically anyone can show up to a sawmill or construction site and get a general labour job to pay for housing. Sure, we don't just hand out homes like we do for food and water, but even the Soviet Union (where homelessness was illegal) had homelessness.

It is time that we remove the shackles and be free.

I don't know what you want to be free from. There will be — low quality of life jobs after the socialist revolution too. Pick and choose your post-capital paradise, the USSR, North Korea, Cuba, China, Yugoslavia, Rojava, the Zapatistas, the impoverished working poor still exist(ed).

The problem that first needs to change is the attitudes that people do not deserve the basics of life unless they work enough.

I'm sorry, but to quote a famous esteemed philosopher, "we do indeed live in a society." Where do you expect the basics of life to come from? Subsidized food, water, and housing all need to paid for by a functioning economy. Like them or hate them, — diners, Thai massage parlours, currency exchanges, and bicycle stores not only employ people, they also pay substantial local taxes. If you want to tear down capitalism, local business is probably the worst place to start. We're not a Star Trek post scarcity economy (yet).

Originally Posted by Sheba

It sounds like you're talking about some version of a basic income.

Personally, I think negative income tax has more of chance to be both possible and successful.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Getting somewhat back on topic, I wonder how much influence this would have on future Skytrain lines. I personally think it would be more for transportation across the rest of BC than within Metro Van ... but who knows?

Like Migrant_Coconut says in the other thread, it's a nice thing to have Japanese companies interested in BC, but they're not a charity. Construction still needs to be done with BC labour, to BC labour code, at BC prices. For Skytrain lines, the obvious easy profitable ridership is probably all spoken for now; The Expo Line servicing Downtown Vancouver through dense neighbourhoods like New Westminister and Metrotown to Downtown Surrey, The Canada Line servicing Downtown Vancouver via West Broadway to YVR and Downtown Richmond, and the Millennium Line soon to service Downtown Coquitlam through the dense neighbourhoods of Lougheed and Brentwood to West Broadway and UBC. JOIN as the name explicitly states is an investment company and they're going to want bang for their buck. Not sure how much money there is building a billion dollar bridge across Burrard Inlet, sad to say.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Everyone in Canada does have access to a safe home, clean water, and food to eat. It might be where they want it to be, or the quality they like, but it's always there. No one in Canada (save for extreme examples) is dying from chronic starvation, chronic malnutrition, chronic dehydration, or chronic water-bourne illness and basically anyone can show up to a sawmill or construction site and get a general labour job to pay for housing. Sure, we don't just hand out homes like we do for food and water, but even the Soviet Union (where homelessness was illegal) had homelessness.



I don't know what you want to be free from. There will be — low quality of life jobs after the socialist revolution too. Pick and choose your post-capital paradise, the USSR, North Korea, Cuba, China, Yugoslavia, Rojava, the Zapatistas, the impoverished working poor still exist(ed).



I'm sorry, but to quote a famous esteemed philosopher, "we do indeed live in a society." Where do you expect the basics of life to come from? Subsidized food, water, and housing all need to paid for by a functioning economy. Like them or hate them, — diners, Thai massage parlours, currency exchanges, and bicycle stores not only employ people, they also pay substantial local taxes. If you want to tear down capitalism, local business is probably the worst place to start. We're not a Star Trek post scarcity economy (yet).



Personally, I think negative income tax has more of chance to be both possible and successful.



Like Migrant_Coconut says in the other thread, it's a nice thing to have Japanese companies interested in BC, but they're not a charity. Construction still needs to be done with BC labour, to BC labour code, at BC prices. For Skytrain lines, the obvious easy profitable ridership is probably all spoken for now; The Expo Line servicing Downtown Vancouver through dense neighbourhoods like New Westminister and Metrotown to Downtown Surrey, The Canada Line servicing Downtown Vancouver via West Broadway to YVR and Downtown Richmond, and the Millennium Line soon to service Downtown Coquitlam through the dense neighbourhoods of Lougheed and Brentwood to West Broadway and UBC. JOIN as the name explicitly states is an investment company and they're going to want bang for their buck. Not sure how much money there is building a billion dollar bridge across Burrard Inlet, sad to say.

So, a tent city that is being shut down by the city is being provided a safe home?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, a tent city that is being shut down by the city is being provided a safe home?

You clearly only read the first sentence. Even though we absolutely provide housing when tent cities are cleared (Remember when Oppenheimer was cleared? They all were given the option), jobs and homes are not hard to find in Canada, they just might not be in the DTES.

Here, let me help, as of today, there are 524 job openings in Vanderhoof. A city of 4,439.

Here's a 2br for rent for $945 a month.

If you were making minimum wage full time in Vanderhoof (and most of those jobs are more like $20 an hour), you'd be bringing home $28216 or $2351 a month after tax.

Is that not affordable enough?

As of today (2022-07-30) there are currently 1229 job openings in Fort St. John.

Here's a rooming house for $475 a month.

Yeah I think you can make it work.

Now, don't get me wrong, Vancouver housing is at or near crisis levels, affordability is a real problem here, and we needed more housing built yesterday, but don't pretend as though Canada as a whole is devoid of opportunity for people.

I also acknowledge that opioid addiction and mental health both go criminially untreated in Canada, but gifting sufferers housing isn't going to fix that.