YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[nname]

Originally Posted by nname

Updated checkboxes:

✅ Los Angeles, California		631,635
✅ San Francisco/Oakland, California	342,968
✅ Hawaii, Hawaii			323,347
✅ Las Vegas, Nevada			227,570
✅ New York, New York			183,635
✅ Phoenix, Arizona			134,349
✅ Chicago, Illinois			113,789
✅ Palm Springs, California		 79,381
❌ Washington/Baltimore, DC		 65,780
☑️ Boston, Massachusetts		 62,730
✅ Denver, Colorado			 58,850
✅ Houston, Texas			 58,560
✅ San Diego, California		 55,439
☑️ Orlando, Florida			 55,263
✅ Portland, Oregon			 53,100
✅ Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas		 50,269
❌ Fort Lauderdale, Florida		 42,596
✅ Seattle/Tacoma, Washington		 42,040
☑️ Miami, Florida			 39,521
❌ Atlanta, Georgia			 35,760
   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania		 30,800
✅ Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota	 29,050
✅ Salt Lake City, Utah			 25,300
☑️ Anchorage, Alaska			 23,180
❌ Detroit, Michigan			 22,910
   Tampa/St. Petersburg, Florida	 21,899
✅ Austin, Texas			 21,880
✅ Sacramento, California		 21,630
   New Orleans, Louisiana		 18,700
   Charlotte, North Carolina		 15,170
   Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina	 13,800
   Nashville, Tennessee			 13,000
   St. Louis, Missouri			 12,730
   San Antonio, Texas			 11,120
   Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania		 11,000
   Kansas City, Missouri		 10,670
   Indianapolis, Indiana		 10,470

✅ Year-round, ☑️ Seasonal/Limited service, ❌ Suspended since 2020


Yes, IAD is still up there, or maybe year-round BOS. Unlikely for FLL or more MCO from AC now, since they picked MIA instead (although the investor presentation have YVR-MCO). Guess they feel YVR have more premium traffic so they launched MIA instead of FLL?

Updated with 2018 data from here

✅ Los Angeles, California		809,828
✅ San Francisco/Oakland, California	493,228
✅ Hawaii, Hawaii			425,169
✅ Las Vegas, Nevada			352,479
✅ New York, New York			262,318
✅ Phoenix, Arizona			189,097
✅ Palm Springs, California		153,017
✅ Chicago, Illinois			130,087
✅ San Diego, California		123,260
✅ Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas		 91,316
✅ Denver, Colorado			 90,354
☑️ Orlando, Florida			 87,307
☑️ Boston, Massachusetts		 86,183
❌ Washington/Baltimore, DC		 85,630
✅ Portland, Oregon			 81,370
✅ Seattle/Tacoma, Washington		 74,190
✅ Houston, Texas			 65,642
❌ Atlanta, Georgia			 52,070
✅ Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota	 49,560
✅ Sacramento, California		 49,560
☑️ Miami, Florida			 48,394
❌ Fort Lauderdale, Florida		 48,059
✅ Salt Lake City, Utah			 43,730
   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania		 36,050
✅ Austin, Texas			 32,330
❌ Detroit, Michigan			 31,810
☑️ Anchorage, Alaska			 26,830
   Tampa/St. Petersburg, Florida	 26,396
   Nashville, Tennessee			 23,913
   New Orleans, Louisiana		 22,810
   Charlotte, North Carolina		 21,890
   St. Louis, Missouri			 19,050
   Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina	 18,790
   Kansas City, Missouri		 16,430
   San Antonio, Texas			 15,000
   Indianapolis, Indiana		 14,740
   Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania		 14,670
   Cleveland, Ohio			 14,240
   Reno, Nevada				 12,650
   Columbus, Ohio			 11,670
   Cincinnati, Ohio		 	 11,270
   Hartford-Springfield, Connecticut	 11,130
   Fresno, California			 10,490

✅ Year-round, ☑️ Seasonal/Limited service, ❌ Suspended since 2020

So Washington is way up there... Besides resumption of ATL, not sure if few summer weekly flights is possible for PHL and DTW? Perhaps BNA sometimes in the future? And MCO definite looks to be support more than 1x weekly flight.

The next California city without direct flight to YVR is Fresno all the way at the bottom of the list. The next 6 cities below the 10,000 cut-off are Milwaukee, Spokane, Omaha, Fort Myers, Tucson, and Boise.

[thenoflyzone]

Honestly, anything below 25,000 is unrealistic to start. (Don't look at Flair. They're a bad example)

DTW might resume on DL, but PHL is unlikely in my opinion. Too long of a flight, on thin O&D. Then again, who knows. AA might tempt a summer seasonal route. They have built up quite the hub at PHL.

But AC is definitely not touching either DTW or PHL from YVR. Honestly, I think as far as YVR-USA is concerned, with this recent addition, AC has maxed out its options, as far as new destinations are concerned. Maybe IAD, especially if UA doesn't resume it, but that's about it.

What YVR needs to do now is make sure these recently launched routes out east (BOS, MIA, etc) go year round. And yes, MCO should get more service. All future AC increases to the US will come with frequency increases I think.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Honestly, anything below 25,000 is unrealistic to start. (Don't look at Flair. They're a bad example)

DTW might resume on DL, but PHL is unlikely in my opinion. Too long of a flight, on thin O&D. Then again, who knows. AA might tempt a summer seasonal route. They have built up quite the hub at PHL.

But AC is definitely not touching either DTW or PHL from YVR. Honestly, I think as far as YVR-USA is concerned, with this recent addition, AC has maxed out its options, as far as new destinations are concerned. Maybe IAD, especially if UA doesn't resume it, but that's about it.

What YVR needs to do now is make sure these recently launched routes out east (BOS, MIA, etc) go year round. And yes, MCO should get more service. All future AC increases to the US will come with frequency increases I think.

Yes, when I said DTW and PHL, I meant for DL and AA. But then AA seems to be more on cutting service on the transboarder routes for the past few years, rather than being on the expansion side.

With the increase of BNA, maybe it's a possibility though? From the investor presentation, the highest growth area identified by AC are: AUS, SFO, DEN, BNA, MIA, SEA, ... And AC had since added/expanded service for most of the destination (YVR-AUS, YEG-SFO, YVR-MIA, YUL-SEA). Maybe BNA is next...? If AC add BNA from YVR, it will be directly compete with WS though, since WS is drawing from YVR to feed its YYC-BNA route.

From the full data, looks like anything above 18,000 is possible for AC, but then... all the ones left above 18,000 from YVR is in the east coast - too long distance for new Express route... RNO and FAT are too far down the list...

But I think it is still possible for AC to explore secondary destination out of the Top3. Maybe ONT, LGB, OAK...? or try LIH again?

[Johnny Aussie]

YVR doing awesome with transborder not just with traffic increasing but new routes as well.
WS at YYC definitely depends on connectivity much more to support their network there. Anything other than Westjet this summer is as low as they’ve ever been. AC/UA combined only 8 flights per day. Sure they will reinstate some of their routes but not all as WS continues to turn the screws there. Yes of course covid has a lot to do with it and full recovery still a ways off but compared to YVR though…
Meanwhile Eye Trapper continues to produce these excellent clips at YVR showing the fantastic variety.
Not many airports left with A380s, B744s and A343s all operating.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MXOIwrEZNKk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dkKsKrSyabM

[hollywoodnorth]

I was out at YVR on the weekend and there was literally not a spare parking spot. Long term was full and then the lot next to the terminal was packed and a zoo as well.

the shelved parking garage needs to be finished. I give them till the end of the year till they announce it as back under construction.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Yes, and I believe I said the Max was perfect for YVR-MIA, and that it might happen in the short term......

With O&D near 100,000 to the greater Miami area, YVR-MIA, with the right plane, was a no brainer.

This made the news here in south florida too. The last direct flight was a 767 which i rode frequently
Right now MIA has the most international flights out of any airport in the USA
The place is exploding and unfortunately getting very expensive to live. Two bedroom high rise apartments are renting for $4k/month

https://www.thenextmiami.com/miami-getting-7-hour-nonstop-flights-to-vancouver/

[casper]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

This made the news here in south florida too. The last direct flight was a 767 which i rode frequently
Right now MIA has the most international flights out of any airport in the USA
The place is exploding and unfortunately getting very expensive to live. Two bedroom high rise apartments are renting for $4k/month

https://www.thenextmiami.com/miami-getting-7-hour-nonstop-flights-to-vancouver/

Give the relative low cost of rentals in the Vancouver market, perhaps we will end with an exodus from Florida looking for lower cost accommodation.

More serious note, it will be interesting to see how this works out for connecting traffic.

[wabooba]

Originally Posted by casper

Given the relatively low cost of rentals in the Vancouver market, perhaps we will end with an exodus from Florida looking for lower-cost accommodation.

Irony at its best!! Seriously, I don't think there are many places in the Western World where one can escape extortionist-style rents.
Maybe YVR will get a couple of new destinations where rents and living costs are within reason. (Although I can't think of any)

[Johnny Aussie]

Condor has further adjusted its summer 2023 schedule from YVR adding a 5th weekly flight from mid July 2023

Frankfurt – Vancouver eff 03MAY23 Summer seasonal service operated by A330-200/-900neo, replacing 767-300ER. 5th weekly to be added from 14JUL23
03MAY23 – 20MAY23 332 Day 6 339 Day 3
21MAY23 – 07JUN23 332 Day 67 339 Day 3
08JUN23 – 13JUL23 332 Day 67 339 Day 13
14JUL23 – 17AUG23 332 Day 67 339 Day 134

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220719-dens23lh

[hehehe]

WS seems to be launching 6x weekly YVR-YYF next summer on the Saab. Obviously much more exciting than lame destinations like Miami and Bangkok and Singapore and Istanbul!

[casper]

Originally Posted by hehehe

WS seems to be launching 6x weekly YVR-YYF next summer on the Saab. Obviously much more exciting than lame destinations like Miami and Bangkok and Singapore and Istanbul!

If Wikipedia is to be beloved that makes WS the dominant airline at YYF with service to more destinations than anyone else.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by casper

If Wikipedia is to be beloved that makes WS the dominant airline at YYF with service to more destinations than anyone else.

Our passenger numbers were always higher than theirs even with all of our cancelations. I wonder if that's still the case

[ninjakafi_81]

I wonder if this is a typo or are we actually going to see the BA 77W at YVR. I remember hearing that they don't send that type out here because it's too premium, or did I hear it wrong.

London Heathrow – Vancouver A350-1000XWB replaced by Boeing 777-200ER/-300ER
30OCT22 – 31DEC22 777-300ER (A350-1000XWB scheduled on Day 246 during this period from 14NOV22 to 11DEC22)
01JAN23 – 25MAR23 777-200ER

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220719-banw22inc

[thenoflyzone]

It's not a typo.

Currently, between YVR, YUL and YYZ, only YVR sees regular First class service on BA (the A380 has First class).

YYZ and YUL are B788 stations mostly, and when the B789 operates, First is sold as Business.

So seeing the B77W in YVR shouldn't come as a surprise. If I saw it in YYZ or YUL on a regular basis, then yes, I'd be surprised.

Overall, it's a decrease in seats though, compared to the A35X. The 772 they will send from Jan to March won't have first class either.

Seems that A350-1000 is going to YYZ on the days it's not in YVR, which is a decent increase in seats compared to the B788/B789.

London Heathrow – Toronto eff 30OCT22 Operational aircraft changes
BA093/092 A350-1000XWB/777-200ER replaces 787-8
BA099/098 777-200ER replaces 777-200ER/787-8

YUL will see an increase in seats as well, as frequency goes up from 5x weekly to daily.

London Heathrow – Montreal eff 30OCT22 Service operates 7 weekly instead of previously filed 5. 1 of 7 weekly 787-9 replacing -8

[Johnny Aussie]

Cathay Pacific’s Dec/Jan schedule update

Hong Kong – Vancouver 5 weekly

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220720-cxdec22na

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It's not a typo.

Currently, between YVR, YUL and YYZ, only YVR sees regular First class service on BA (the A380 has First class).

YYZ and YUL are B788 stations mostly, and when the B789 operates, First is sold as Business.

So seeing the B77W in YVR shouldn't come as a surprise. If I saw it in YYZ or YUL on a regular basis, then yes, I'd be surprised.

Overall, it's a decrease in seats though, compared to the A35X. The 772 they will send from Jan to March won't have first class either.

Seems that A350-1000 is going to YYZ on the days it's not in YVR, which is a decent increase in seats compared to the B788/B789.



YUL will see an increase in seats as well, as frequency goes up from 5x weekly to daily.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't too sure if it was a typo or not because of what I've overheard in the past.

I wonder why BA decided to use the 77W out to YVR instead of the 772 or the A35K on a full time basis. Considering that there is a decrease in seats, I wonder if they're trying to offset that by additional cargo the 77W can carry.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Cathay Pacific’s Dec/Jan schedule update

Hong Kong – Vancouver 5 weekly

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220720-cxdec22na

There's a general expectation that HKG will end its hotel quarantine requirements for arriving passengers in Oct-Nov (they've already stopped the idiotic practice of banning airlines that had too many COVID cases). If that does happen, expect an explosion in travel between YVR and HKG.

[SpongeG]

I flew out of YVR from the international gates on July 9. We got there by 11 something am for a 3:45 pm flight. We wanted extra time. Anyway check-in was quite fast, lineup wasn't too bad. Security was less than 10 minutes. Post security was not crazy busy but easy to find seating. Many of the shops were closed, perhaps the customers that use them are just not flying out at that time of day. Most of the food places were open. The new part of the terminal is very nice and was completely empty other than one couple sitting way at the end of it without their masks. Took a few pics will post later.

[zahav]

Good to hear the experience was good, and not the disaster everyone is describing right now. Did you go outside in the new international section? Love that they have that

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by nname

Yes, when I said DTW and PHL, I meant for DL and AA. But then AA seems to be more on cutting service on the transboarder routes for the past few years, rather than being on the expansion side.

With the increase of BNA, maybe it's a possibility though? From the investor presentation, the highest growth area identified by AC are: AUS, SFO, DEN, BNA, MIA, SEA, ... And AC had since added/expanded service for most of the destination (YVR-AUS, YEG-SFO, YVR-MIA, YUL-SEA). Maybe BNA is next...? If AC add BNA from YVR, it will be directly compete with WS though, since WS is drawing from YVR to feed its YYC-BNA route.

From the full data, looks like anything above 18,000 is possible for AC, but then... all the ones left above 18,000 from YVR is in the east coast - too long distance for new Express route... RNO and FAT are too far down the list...

But I think it is still possible for AC to explore secondary destination out of the Top3. Maybe ONT, LGB, OAK...? or try LIH again?

Yes & it's not just WestJet Calgary YYC- Nashville BNA flights that draw some connectiing passengers from Vancouver YVR, Western Canada. A lot WS flights at YYC does including even WestJet's new summer seasonal 3x weekly YYC - Boston BOS which started up end of June 2022 draws from YVR too.