YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Looks like trofirhen has been reincarnated and still obsessed with SEA I see.

Anybody see the May stats released by YVR yesterday?

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2022/05---may/may-traffic-update.pdf

Pax levels shot over 1.6 million
Domestic was 964k
Int’l was 647k

Leaps and bounds ahead of all other Canadian airports except YYZ of course!

Good to see int’l numbers especially slowly climbing - with an ongoing subdued China and overall Asia market this will remain subdued for the short term at least.

[Johnny Aussie]

Decent capacity boost planned next summer for Condor (yes they’ve already released preliminary schedules)

2 weekly A330-200s and 2 weekly A330-900NEO

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220713-dens23inc

Frankfurt – Vancouver eff 03MAY23 Summer seasonal service operated by A330-200/-900neo, replacing 767-300ER, service up to 4 weekly
03MAY23 – 20MAY23 332 Day 6 339 Day 3
21MAY23 – 07JUN23 332 Day 67 339 Day 3
eff 08JUN23 332 Day 67 339 Day 13

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Leaps and bounds ahead of all other Canadian airports

not in terms of 2 very important metrics.

1. international traffic
2. May 2022 vs May 2019 percentage.

Lagging behing 2 or more airports in both those metrics, by quite a lot actually.

Plus side of those two points though, is that YVR isn't a total 🞵🞵🞵🞵 show that are YYZ and YUL at the moment during peak hours.

[nname]

AC adds YVR-MIA this winter starting Dec 17, 3x weekly

AC1034 YVR 0820 - 1706 MIA 7M8 246
AC1035 MIA 1800 - 2145 YVR 7M8 246

Looks like it's winter seasonal until end of April.

So this fills in the 3x weekly spot for the sub-daily morning 7M8 flights out of YVR. I knew something was up when they cut the Mexican flight and left a spot like that...
But now there's still a weekly slot on Tuesday to fill...

 544 YVR-KOA	1 3 5 7
1034 YVR-MIA	 2 4 6
 970 YVR-PVR	1 3   7
 978 YVR-SJD	 2 4 6
1062 YVR-AUS	1 3 5
 932 YVR-CUN	   4567
 534 YVR-OGG	1 34567
1342 YVR-ZIH	 2

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by nname

AC adds YVR-MIA this winter starting Dec 17, 3x weekly

AC1034 YVR 0820 - 1706 MIA 7M8 246
AC1035 MIA 1800 - 2145 YVR 7M8 246

Looks like it's winter seasonal until end of April.

So this concludes the sub-daily morning 7M8 departures. I knew something was up when they left out 3x weekly slots when they cut the Mexican flights..

KOA	1 3 5 7
MIA	 2 4 6
PVR	1 3   7
SJD	 2 4 6
AUS	1 3 5
CUN	   4567
ZIH	 2

Great that Air Canada is planning to do few times weekly Vancouver YVR- Miami MIA,US flights✈️this upcoming winter season. Hope it works out and has success.

As in Western Canada,WestJet did Calgary YYC- MIA several years ago seasonally & it didn't work out. Only WS YYC- Orlando MCO year round few times weekly & YYC - Fort Lauderdale FLL winter seasonal flights few times weekly has worked out for WS to Florida.

But I wonder (if) WS might give YYC - MIA another go at seasonally at some point?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

AC adds YVR-MIA this winter

That's a great add.

One of the largest unserved markets from YVR to the US east coast I believe. What's left, Washington? UA still hasn't resumed the seasonal IAD-YVR I see.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

That's a great add.

One of the largest unserved markets from YVR to the US east coast I believe. What's left, Washington? UA still hasn't resumed the seasonal IAD-YVR I see.

Updated checkboxes:

✅ Los Angeles, California		631,635
✅ San Francisco/Oakland, California	342,968
✅ Hawaii, Hawaii			323,347
✅ Las Vegas, Nevada			227,570
✅ New York, New York			183,635
✅ Phoenix, Arizona			134,349
✅ Chicago, Illinois			113,789
✅ Palm Springs, California		 79,381
❌ Washington/Baltimore, DC		 65,780
☑️ Boston, Massachusetts		 62,730
✅ Denver, Colorado			 58,850
✅ Houston, Texas			 58,560
✅ San Diego, California		 55,439
☑️ Orlando, Florida			 55,263
✅ Portland, Oregon			 53,100
✅ Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas		 50,269
❌ Fort Lauderdale, Florida		 42,596
✅ Seattle/Tacoma, Washington		 42,040
☑️ Miami, Florida			 39,521
❌ Atlanta, Georgia			 35,760
   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania		 30,800
✅ Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota	 29,050
✅ Salt Lake City, Utah			 25,300
☑️ Anchorage, Alaska			 23,180
❌ Detroit, Michigan			 22,910
   Tampa/St. Petersburg, Florida	 21,899
✅ Austin, Texas			 21,880
✅ Sacramento, California		 21,630
   New Orleans, Louisiana		 18,700
   Charlotte, North Carolina		 15,170
   Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina	 13,800
   Nashville, Tennessee			 13,000
   St. Louis, Missouri			 12,730
   San Antonio, Texas			 11,120
   Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania		 11,000
   Kansas City, Missouri		 10,670
   Indianapolis, Indiana		 10,470

✅ Year-round, ☑️ Seasonal/Limited service, ❌ Suspended since 2020


Yes, IAD is still up there, or maybe year-round BOS. Unlikely for FLL or more MCO from AC now, since they picked MIA instead (although the investor presentation have YVR-MCO). Guess they feel YVR have more premium traffic so they launched MIA instead of FLL?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

Yes, IAD is still up there, or maybe year-round BOS. Unlikely for FLL or more MCO from AC now, since they picked MIA instead (although the investor presentation have YVR-MCO). Guess they feel YVR have more premium traffic so they launched MIA instead of FLL?

MIA or FLL, doesn't really matter. When you fly to one, you're serving both, really.

MIA is more premium, and FLL more leisure oriented. So AC feels they can tap into some of the higher yielding market to/from MIA. Timings of the flight are great, especially for onward connections to Asia/Australia.

[nname]

YHZ Change

AC reduced winter flights to YHZ to 2x weekly on days 46. This will rotate at YHZ end with YYC-YHZ, which is now also reduced to 5x weekly.

WS is cutting YVR-YHZ flights to just 4 flights for the remainder of the summer. Flights will operate on July 31, Sept 1, 3, 4. Seems like another case of AC kicking WS out of YVR...

[ninjakafi_81]

Could we see JetBlue launch flights to MCO or FLL sometime in the near future ?

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

That's a great add.

One of the largest unserved markets from YVR to the US east coast I believe. What's left, Washington? UA still hasn't resumed the seasonal IAD-YVR I see.

I remember you and I discussing this possible flight back when it didn't exist and I was wondering why not.

[Denscity]

YVR new adds are now Fiji, Bangkok, Singapore, and Miami! What an exotic lineup!
Special mention to Istanbul.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Denscity

YVR new adds are now Fiji, Bangkok, Singapore, and Miami! What an exotic lineup!
Special mention to Istanbul.

Exactly. Rewind not even 5 years ago and who would have thunk it.
Plus Air India too.
I would expect IAD to be returning soon either by UA or an AC add.
Also ATL will most likely be back by summer 23 as well.
Getting most of those boxes ticked…

[wabooba]

Originally Posted by Denscity

YVR new adds are now Fiji, Bangkok, Singapore, and Miami! What an exotic lineup!
Special mention to Istanbul.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Exactly. Rewind not even 5 years ago and who would have thunk it.
Plus Air India too.
I would expect IAD to be returning soon either by UA or an AC add.
Also ATL will most likely be back by summer 23 as well.
Getting most of those boxes ticked…

Thank you both for these posts. They are super-encouraging and realistically optimistic, plus (for me, even if I'm ever the dreamer), heralding something
"Meniscus-Busting" to come. YVR a 5 continent airport? JNB? CMN? Of course not, now and always. But GRU? LIM? That strikes me as eventually possible. I hope so, anyway.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by nname

YHZ Change

AC reduced winter flights to YHZ to 2x weekly on days 46. This will rotate at YHZ end with YYC-YHZ, which is now also reduced to 5x weekly.

WS is cutting YVR-YHZ flights to just 4 flights for the remainder of the summer. Flights will operate on July 31, Sept 1, 3, 4. Seems like another case of AC kicking WS out of YVR...

Air Canada kicking WestJet of Vancouver YVR just because of their cutting Halifax YHZ seasonal flights? Okay then that would be interesting.

For sure,in Western Canada WS is consolidating most of it YHZ flights out of its main hub at Calgary YYC as WestJet's YYC - YHZ is 3x daily Summer 2022 & Not too surprising!!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Air Canada kicking WestJet of Vancouver YVR just because of their cutting Halifax YHZ seasonal flights? Okay then that would be interesting.

For sure,in Western Canada WS is consolidating most of it YHZ flights out of its main hub at Calgary YYC as WestJet's YYC - YHZ is 3x daily Summer 2022 & Not too surprising!!

Key word is "one of". I didn't mean WS is moving out of YVR, just many cases that WS started something new from YVR or be the sole operator of some route, then someone comes and they dramatically reduce it or pulled out soon after.

For new mainline service for the past 10 or so years... as far as I remember:
SNA - WS immediately reduce frequency and move about half to YYC once AC started the route, for the route they had been operating for 11 years...
YXY - moved to YYC
SAN - WS started first, but reduced once AC started the route, now AC runs it 3x daily while WS remains 2/3x weekly
YXU - cancelled
YHM - moved to YXX, then swooped
YHZ - WS started first, but reduced service once AC started
MCO - WS still maintains 1x weekly service.. a rare case where AC pulled out before WS (the other case is LIH), but still only 1x weekly
MEX - WS pulled out

The only one that stayed is probably LGW, lets see if they will make it year-round, or have daily service to both LGW/LHR from YYC. Maybe a few more stayed, but most of the service never grow to over a fraction of what AC offers. I mean... SFO doesn't even warrant a year-round service!? The only area that WS seems to win against AC are the sun destinations to Hawaii, Mexico, and California, etc. But even that, AC is slowly building up services while WS mostly remain stagnant.

It just feel like WS cannot compete that well at YVR and instead try to funnel traffic through YYC? Always seems to me that when WS have a monopoly of some route, AC can just come in and steal the route away from them without much of a battle...

Maybe I was wrong or forgot about something, but this is what I feel about WS at YVR for the past few years...

(and yes, I know WS had 3x daily YHZ from YYC... but do you really think YYC had traffic for 3x daily service, whereas YVR only have traffic enough for 1x monthly direct service?)

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Denscity

I remember you and I discussing this possible flight back when it didn't exist and I was wondering why not.

Yes, and I believe I said the Max was perfect for YVR-MIA, and that it might happen in the short term......

With O&D near 100,000 to the greater Miami area, YVR-MIA, with the right plane, was a no brainer.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by nname

Key word is "one of". I didn't mean WS is moving out of YVR, just many cases that WS started something new from YVR or be the sole operator of some route, then someone comes and they dramatically reduce it or pulled out soon after.

For new mainline service for the past 10 or so years... as far as I remember:
SNA - WS immediately reduce frequency and move about half to YYC once AC started the route, for the route they had been operating for 11 years...
YXY - moved to YYC
SAN - WS started first, but reduced once AC started the route, now AC runs it 3x daily while WS remains 2/3x weekly
YXU - cancelled
YHM - moved to YXX, then swooped
YHZ - WS started first, but reduced service once AC started
MCO - WS still maintains 1x weekly service.. a rare case where AC pulled out before WS (the other case is LIH), but still only 1x weekly
MEX - WS pulled out

The only one that stayed is probably LGW, lets see if they will make it year-round, or have daily service to both LGW/LHR from YYC. Maybe a few more stayed, but most of the service never grow to over a fraction of what AC offers. I mean... SFO doesn't even warrant a year-round service!? The only area that WS seems to win against AC are the sun destinations to Hawaii, Mexico, and California, etc. But even that, AC is slowly building up services while WS mostly remain stagnant.

It just feel like WS cannot compete that well at YVR and instead try to funnel traffic through YYC? Always seems to me that when WS have a monopoly of some route, AC can just come in and steal the route away from them without much of a battle...

Maybe I was wrong or forgot about something, but this is what I feel about WS at YVR for the past few years...

(and yes, I know WS had 3x daily YHZ from YYC... but do you really think YYC had traffic for 3x daily service, whereas YVR only have traffic enough for 1x monthly direct service?)

Fair but at the same time WS has a sizeable presence at YVR regardless of those cuts. SNA/SAN/YHZ/YXY were never major routes out of YVR for WS anyways. At the end of the day airlines are going to do what works for them, and if funneling through YYC and expanding more out of there makes more money for WS that's what they're going to do. Doesn't mean that there won't be any future opportunities out of YVR for WS.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by nname

The only one that stayed is probably LGW, lets see if they will make it year-round, or have daily service to both LGW/LHR from YYC. Maybe a few more stayed, but most of the service never grow to over a fraction of what AC offers. I mean... SFO doesn't even warrant a year-round service!? The only area that WS seems to win against AC are the sun destinations to Hawaii, Mexico, and California, etc. But even that, AC is slowly building up services while WS mostly remain stagnant.

WS reduced YVR-LGW's season in the latest update, now ending Oct 2 instead of late October.

Also WS only just went year-round on SFO this past winter. It had always been seasonal at both YYC/YVR prior.

Originally Posted by nname

YHZ Change

AC reduced winter flights to YHZ to 2x weekly on days 46. This will rotate at YHZ end with YYC-YHZ, which is now also reduced to 5x weekly.

Winter operation of YYC-YHZ for AC has been intermittent altogether, so 5x weekly 7M8 is good news vs previous winters where WS was the only nonstop option.