The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by elly63

And they should be publicly called out for that.

Probably for the best they give the team back and get dedicated owners to run the team properly which is why young/lawson group i would prefer as they are a proven cfl ownersship success story

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Probably for the best they give the team back and get dedicated owners to run the team properly which is why young/lawson group i would prefer as they are a proven cfl ownersship success story

At this point I am more for the stability of paying the bills. I remember the quote from Jeff Hunt where he described how enough time had passed where the young people had no preconceived notions over an Ottawa football team (good or bad) and would be easier to market to, this has proven true. So I would rather have to rebuild the brand than settling for someone with less than deep pockets. The Hamilton group can't own two teams (yes I know about Braley) but we all know the cans of worms that opened.

[JHikka]

What ideas do people have for the Argos that MLSE has supposedly not been doing? They've already marketing the team around town, had themes nights, are spending and getting players within the salary cap, etc.

I get complaining about big bad MLSE/Toronto because the team has no traction but never really see any suggestions for what MLSE should actually do that they aren't already doing.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by JHikka

What ideas do people have for the Argos that MLSE has supposedly not been doing? They've already marketing the team around town, had themes nights, are spending and getting players within the salary cap, etc.

I get complaining about big bad MLSE/Toronto because the team has no traction but never really see any suggestions for what MLSE should actually do that they aren't already doing.

I believe they only have 2 people staffed on their ticket office. The example they should follow is Doman in BC get a big music act opening night of the season to generate a buzz have a block party pre game. Other nights should be themed like edmonton had a stand with Ukraine night drew 30000 for a preseason game. Sell the unused upper deck seats for 5 bucks if you have to just to make it not look so bad on tv and generate some consession stand revenue. There are many things they are not doing that other cfl teams are doing. Even montreal has gotten corporate sponsorship up from 800k to 2 million and gotten season tickets up to around 6000 they are making progres

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by JHikka

What ideas do people have for the Argos that MLSE has supposedly not been doing? They've already marketing the team around town, had themes nights, are spending and getting players within the salary cap, etc.

I get complaining about big bad MLSE/Toronto because the team has no traction but never really see any suggestions for what MLSE should actually do that they aren't already doing.

Their owner came out and basically pooped all over the CFL. He's more upset his XFL idea didn't go through with the league so now I'm sure he's less inclined to want to make an effort by making money with the team.

Others have said, not just on here, that MLSE doesn't do a good job.

[EpicPonyTime]

1. Literally no fans think MLSE has done a good job owning the Argos.

2. The Argos aren't relocating out of downtown Toronto.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

1. Literally no fans think MLSE has done a good job owning the Argos.

Which is why I asked what people would suggest MLSE do instead of what they've tried.

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

2. The Argos aren't relocating out of downtown Toronto.

They may not have much of a choice, frankly.

Originally Posted by TimB09

Their owner came out and basically pooped all over the CFL. He's more upset his XFL idea didn't go through with the league so now I'm sure he's less inclined to want to make an effort by making money with the team.

I think it's worth noting that Tanenbaum, who dropped his role with the CFL recently, was also part of MLSE's efforts to get the World Cup to come to BMO.

Also worth noting that Calgary voted with Toronto wrt CFL working more with the XFL.

Originally Posted by TimB09

Others have said, not just on here, that MLSE doesn't do a good job.

What should they be doing differently?

Originally Posted by thurmas

I believe they only have 2 people staffed on their ticket office.

MLSE's ticketing department covers multiple teams.

Originally Posted by thurmas

The example they should follow is Doman in BC get a big music act opening night of the season to generate a buzz have a block party pre game.

So people buy cheap tickets to one game for a music act and leave at halftime. The Argos already kind-of do this by cramming in as many home games as possible during the Exhibition in August, where Argos and TFC tickets gain access to Exhibition because the stadium cannot be accessed without going through the grounds.

Originally Posted by thurmas

Other nights should be themed like edmonton had a stand with Ukraine night drew 30000 for a preseason game. Sell the unused upper deck seats for 5 bucks if you have to just to make it not look so bad on tv and generate some consession stand revenue.

In ticket selling in most industries there's usually a standard by which your tickets are valued at. Your product is valued at whatever your tickets are selling for, and consumers usually assign that value to your product. If movie tickets are always $10 then consumers expect that.

The problem with setting your tickets at $5, or another value incredibly low, is that consumers will come to expect that at all times, and will be unhappy with any increase in value. It puts the team in a tough position when it comes time to either maximize revenues or raise prices. Tickets need to be set a value and then held there until demand really, really exceeds value and supply. Edmonton giving away tickets for free to 12 and under is fine today but consumers will come to expect this in the future and will put the team in a tight bind if demand ever increases or revenues need to be raised.

tl;dr if you set your product at a low value you'll get consumers at that value who won't budge on that value.

Originally Posted by thurmas

There are many things they are not doing that other cfl teams are doing. Even montreal has gotten corporate sponsorship up from 800k to 2 million and gotten season tickets up to around 6000 they are making progres

MLSE isn't desperate for corporate partners.

[thurmas]

https://3downnation.com/2022/07/20/winni...rofit-for-2021-despite-shortened-season/

Winnipeg Blue Bombers post $2.1 million operating profit for 2021 despite shortened season

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers have announced an overall operating profit of $2.1 million for 2021.

The team generated $32.8 million in revenue over a 14-game regular season in 2021, including $2.4 million in revenue from hosting the 2021 Western Final. This was 90 percent of what the club generated in 2019 over the course of an 18-game regular season.

“We are pleased with our overall financial results for 2021,” said president & CEO Wade Miller in a statement. “It is a testament to the continued support of our season ticket members, corporate partners, and fans. The COVID-19 pandemic and the related restrictions that were implemented in 2020 had a detrimental impact on the club. With the support of our community, the club was able to weather this storm, get back on the field to defend our Grey Cup championship and become back-to-back Grey Cup champions for our incredible fans.”

Winnipeg’s total operation expenses were $30.7 million in 2021, including $886,000 in expenses related to COVID-19. The team was able to host games at full capacity in 2021 with a proof of vaccination requirement in effect for those in attendance.

The Blue Bombers entered into a new agreement with Manitoba’s provincial government and Triple B Stadium Inc. including the establishment of a capital fund. The government initially contributed $10.2 million and the team will contribute annually to the fund. The contribution for 2021 was $576,000.

The team was also entitled to a recovery of the 2019 annual excess cash payment of $2.2 million from Triple B, which was used for stadium operations expenses incurred during the pandemic. The club also accessed government programs to assist with the impact of COVID-19 on the club’s operations and received government assistance totalling $3.2 million from the various programs available to organizations that experienced significant revenue declines.

The club recorded an impairment loss on the loan receivable from Valour FC Inc. of $1.3 million as the Canadian Premier League team’s estimated future cash flows are uncertain.

“The Winnipeg Football Club has a strong history of profitability. Our stakeholders continue to play an important role in the success of our club, both on and off the field,” said Miller.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by JHikka

They may not have much of a choice, frankly.

As long as new owners are willing to pay MLSE rent - and make no mistake, the CFL will pay for it if they aren't - they will continue to play at BMO. They aren't leaving downtown. It's necessary for the league to have a presence there.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

As long as new owners are willing to pay MLSE rent - and make no mistake, the CFL will pay for it if they aren't - they will continue to play at BMO. They aren't leaving downtown. It's necessary for the league to have a presence there.

I don't think so anymore advertisers realize argo games draw miniscule fans and Argos games don't produce big TV ratings as tgey are usually some of the smallest. Argos relocation to London or Kitchener would produce better attendance and probably better tv ratings too.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

As long as new owners are willing to pay MLSE rent - and make no mistake, the CFL will pay for it if they aren't - they will continue to play at BMO. They aren't leaving downtown. It's necessary for the league to have a presence there.

Which new owners? Would love to know who would want to own the team once the CFL is rid is MLSE's supposed mismanagement.

If MLSE is giving up on the team what makes you think they would want to retain them as a tenant? Neither Lamport nor Varsity are really feasible for CFL teams unless the league wants to drop its gameday quality and amenities substantially in order to stay in the market.

[VANRIDERFAN]

^^

MLSE's inability to raise the Argo's profile in the GTA just proves to me that MLSE's success is totally due to hanging onto the coattails of fat US TV contracts and not on any marketing ability within the company.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

^^

MLSE's inability to raise the Argo's profile in the GTA just proves to me that MLSE's success is totally due to hanging onto the coattails of fat US TV contracts and not on any marketing ability within the company.

See:

Originally Posted by JHikka

What ideas do people have for the Argos that MLSE has supposedly not been doing? They've already marketing the team around town, had themes nights, are spending and getting players within the salary cap, etc.

I get complaining about big bad MLSE/Toronto because the team has no traction but never really see any suggestions for what MLSE should actually do that they aren't already doing.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by JHikka

See:

So?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

So?

I'm asking you what you think MLSE should be doing that they're not already doing. All I hear are people using the same complaints without providing any sort of solution.

[thurmas]

Maybe cfl tries merging with xfl in 2 years time not sure if it would improve attendance or not it did generate a lot of buzz when the idea was floated during covid. Cfl would need 5 teams on board with it.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm asking you what you think MLSE should be doing that they're not already doing. All I hear are people using the same complaints without providing any sort of solution.

I'm not from the GTA so I have no idea why the region has abandoned an affordable form of entertainment that showcases both Canadian and US talent with a long history behind it. I'm also pointing out that an organization that bills itself as the premier sports marketing entity in Canada seems to be incapable of raising the profile of a team that has no association with a sports juggernaut based in the United States.

Maybe Canadians just aren't into purely domestic leagues anymore and need US participation to make it seem legit. Which is a sad commentary on our national self-esteem.

[JHikka]

Perhaps the issue isn't so much MLSE not doing its job but that the CFL or gridiron cannot be marketed and/or successful in Toronto in the way that CFL fans are expecting.

Saying that Toronto is too 'American' or that Canadians prefer a league with US teams is simply a coping mechanism for the steady decline of the CFL at this point. Leagues like the CHL continue to exist (and yes I know there are US teams) despite the supposed unwillingness of Canadians to be supportive of purely domestic ventures. I think it's weird to throw the American angle in as a reason when so many CFL players are American to begin with and something the CFL relies on for talent.

[thurmas]

I think its Toronto wants star players and because cfl salary constraints is unable to sign stars like it could in years gone by is a big reason for the decline in Toronto. Back in the 70s they could sign some of the best players out of US colleges and draw 45 to 50 thousand fans a game. Even in the early 90s Rocket Ismail they were averaging 36,000 a game and Ricky Williams in 2006 30,000 fans a game. If the CFL could sign even 1 star player per team would likely generate a lot more interest.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Perhaps the issue isn't so much MLSE not doing its job but that the CFL or gridiron cannot be marketed and/or successful in Toronto in the way that CFL fans are expecting.

Saying that Toronto is too 'American' or that Canadians prefer a league with US teams is simply a coping mechanism for the steady decline of the CFL at this point. Leagues like the CHL continue to exist (and yes I know there are US teams) despite the supposed unwillingness of Canadians to be supportive of purely domestic ventures. I think it's weird to throw the American angle in as a reason when so many CFL players are American to begin with and something the CFL relies on for talent.

Yes the CFL has really dropped the ball on selling itself to Canada. But the growing chorus of Canadians who hate the CFL because it doesn't give million dollar contracts or that a US college team could easily beat a CFL team just prove they know nothing about the game and talent level.

I'm also pointing out that CPL, CEBL and even CHL teams are having difficulty in filling their barns as well. Finally that our "National Sports Networks" are more than willing to buy access to mainly US sports products instead of putting a mediocre amount of effort (like showing highlights) in promoting Canadian entities.