PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

How does America constantly get it wrong? Hundreds of years of riverfront urban planning examples to choose from in Europe, and we put parking along our river. It's so easy to get it right, how do we manage to get it wrong almost every single time???

This proposal makes me nauseous. It’s a complete dumpster fire. Here’s hoping something derails it.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

My worst expectations for the waterfront.
A private gated community.
NO public space added.
parking on the water's edge.
Blank walls on the ground floor fronting the water.
This is a generic disaster.
BLOCKS FROM A METRO STATION.
Another introverted waterfront development north of the bridge.
VERY DISAPPOINTING.
As is 501 N Columbus. BOOO!

I agree. This — —. Is this definitely happening or just a proposal at this point?

[Gatorade_Jim]

Starbucks closing at 10th and Chestnut citing safety concerns. Also closing 14 other stores nationwide so not sure what to make of the closure. Could be an attempt at union-busting, and considering their proposal to open a new spot for pickups on Chestnut in Rittenhouse, along with the leasing momentum right now, doesn’t worry me too much. Not like there’s a lack of Starbucks in that area to begin with. Just — to lose a long-term anchor tenant like that.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Starbucks closing at 10th and Chestnut citing safety concerns. Also closing 14 other stores nationwide so not sure what to make of the closure. Could be an attempt at union-busting, and considering their proposal to open a new spot for pickups on Chestnut in Rittenhouse, along with the leasing momentum right now, doesn’t worry me too much. Not like there’s a lack of Starbucks in that area to begin with. Just — to lose a long-term anchor tenant like that.

Woah that's interesting that they are closing that location since Jefferson is across the street, this whole area is a major strip with traffic day, and night so I wonder what "Safety concerns they are citing"

The Jefferson clothing store is right next door so I assume that will go next right?

Someone will fill that spot, it would actually be funny if Dunkin came in and took over.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Starbucks closing at 10th and Chestnut citing safety concerns. Also closing 14 other stores nationwide so not sure what to make of the closure. Could be an attempt at union-busting, and considering their proposal to open a new spot for pickups on Chestnut in Rittenhouse, along with the leasing momentum right now, doesn’t worry me too much. Not like there’s a lack of Starbucks in that area to begin with. Just — to lose a long-term anchor tenant like that.

Yeah I wouldn’t take it too seriously. Kind of weird that they had to issue a memo explaining why instead of just quietly closing them.

I’ve gone to the one on 10th/Chestnut occasionally - it’s always seemed pretty quiet; mostly just Jefferson customers. I’m guessing they realized they saturated the area (they recently opened one up at the Heirloom on Market and there are six others within 2 blocks) and they’ve been having issues over the last few years in terms of unionization, Covid and reduced market share. Not mention there’s a Au Bon Pain right across the street; Starbucks coffee and food are pretty crappy these days making it more difficult to compete. Their rationale was probably somewhat of a copout. Also weird they didn’t announce any in SF, NYC or Chicago which also have their fair share of problems. It almost seems like they threw Philly in there for some reason - the other closings are mostly in LA, Seattle and Portland.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I couldn't help but imagine that, in the coming decade, the Grays Ferry Plaza may see developer interest. Given the pace of development and the near-complete filling in of Point Breeze, I can't imagine that such a huge space will remain a strip mall for much longer.

My bet is Penn buys Grays Ferry Plaza, demolishes it, and incorporates it into the Pennovation Center.

They will get pushback because there is a grocery store in there, which they will accommodate by carving out space on the site for a new store.

When you look at satellite images of the area, this is the next logical move for them.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Starbucks closing at 10th and Chestnut citing safety concerns. Also closing 14 other stores nationwide so not sure what to make of the closure. Could be an attempt at union-busting, and considering their proposal to open a new spot for pickups on Chestnut in Rittenhouse, along with the leasing momentum right now, doesn’t worry me too much. Not like there’s a lack of Starbucks in that area to begin with. Just — to lose a long-term anchor tenant like that.

its about store conditions and safety concerns. Basically they are closing locations where there have been repeated issues with customer behavior including drug use in bathrooms and disruptions.

[TempleGuy1000]

That building at 10th and Chestnut deserves something better than Starbucks anyway. You got to love the know-nothing style of reporting of the local media on this story too. It's like every single person in the media forgot that East Market is the homeless haven of Philadelphia. It's not exactly a new phenomenon.

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

My bet is Penn buys Grays Ferry Plaza, demolishes it, and incorporates it into the Pennovation Center.

They will get pushback because there is a grocery store in there, which they will accommodate by carving out space on the site for a new store.

When you look at satellite images of the area, this is the next logical move for them.

Unlikely-- the supermarket's lease goes until 2038 and the McDonald's and liquor stores leases are even longer. There are also quite a few properties between the shopping center and Pennovation-- one is about to have a huge storage facility built on it.

The most logical expansion of Pennovation is onto the land Penn purchased in 2019 across the street on the southeast corner of Grays Ferry and 35th and the billboard property at 3115R Grays Ferry.

[skyhigh07]

Anyone know if the conditions at the 10th/Chestnut location were really that bad? I’ve only been there a few times recently.

I was half expecting the one near Broad/Snyder to close. Seems like there’s more drug activity and issues with homeless in that area.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Anyone know if the conditions at the 10th/Chestnut location were really that bad? I’ve only been there a few times recently.

I was half expecting the one near Broad/Snyder to close. Seems like there’s more drug activity and issues with homeless in that area.

Well there is no Starbucks at Broad and Snyder. But I never had that bad experience at the 10th and Chestnut one. The irony is that it has the highest rating on google reviews for the center city starbucks at 4.3/5 stars. East Market has always had the worst homeless problem given nearly all the shelters and hospitals are right there.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Well there is no Starbucks at Broad and Snyder. But I never had that bad experience at the 10th and Chestnut one. The irony is that it has the highest rating on google reviews for the center city starbucks at 4.3/5 stars. East Market has always had the worst homeless problem given nearly all the shelters and hospitals are right there.

There’s one two blocks away from Broad/Snyder between Wolf and Jackson. I doubt anyone knows where Wolf and Jackson is which is why I referenced Snyder

Found this article from three years ago. Have to say Michaela Winberg is probably the best and most prescient journalist in the city. Apparently, they installed “blue lights” in the bathrooms at the Chestnut location and a few others after reports of drug use and finding needles. So I guess it’s possible Starbucks is being honest about their intentions but I’m sure other factors contributed to their decision as well.

https://billypenn.com/2019/07/18/phillys...rbucks-has-blue-lights-in-the-bathrooms/

[nemesisinphilly]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

There’s one two blocks away from Broad/Snyder between Wolf and Jackson. I doubt anyone knows where Wolf and Jackson is which is why I referenced Snyder

Found this article from three years ago. Have to say Michaela Winberg is probably the best and most prescient journalist in the city. Apparently, they installed “blue lights” in the bathrooms at the Chestnut location and a few others after reports of drug use and finding needles. So I guess it’s possible Starbucks is being honest about their intentions but I’m sure other factors contributed to their decision as well.

https://billypenn.com/2019/07/18/phillys...rbucks-has-blue-lights-in-the-bathrooms/

2 blocks may as well be two miles when it comes to Broad and Snyder. That Starbucks on Jackson is pretty quiet.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

2 blocks may as well be two miles when it comes to Broad and Snyder. That Starbucks on Jackson is pretty quiet.

So is the one at Chestnut snd 10th. The Billy Penn article refers to the “Broad and Snyder” location as well. They also installed blue lights there apparently - one of three in the city at that time.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

So is the one at Chestnut snd 10th. The Billy Penn article refers to the “Broad and Snyder” location as well. They also installed blue lights there - one of three in the city at that time.

If you think the 'crowd' that hangs out along Chestnut is equivalent to the few people who linger around the Dunkin Donuts at Broad and Snyder, I'm going to throw it out there that you haven't spent enough time in either place. I would garner 80% of all visible homeless outside of Kensington is perched between 5th to 16th between Walnut and Arch. It's unfortunate, but Philly's 'skid row' was always on the backside of East Market.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Anyone know if the conditions at the 10th/Chestnut location were really that bad? I’ve only been there a few times recently.

They were, unfortunately a lot of drug users and homeless and there's been a few fights in there and people would be passed out at the tables regularly.

A much bigger discussion but it's time to rethink some of the methadone clinic locations and what not.

[Raja]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Anyone know if the conditions at the 10th/Chestnut location were really that bad? I’ve only been there a few times recently.

I was half expecting the one near Broad/Snyder to close. Seems like there’s more drug activity and issues with homeless in that area.

Read JaLogoJa's comment.

https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/co..._starbucks_store_among_16_closing_in_us/

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

They were, unfortunately a lot of drug users and homeless and there's been a few fights in there. People would be passed out at the tables regularly and I had heard that they installed a blue light in the bathrooms to try to discourage drug usage (I have had no reason to go there in a while so I can't confirm this firsthand).

A much bigger discussion but it's time to rethink some of the methadone clinic locations and what not.

We had this discussion awhile ago and I think it would be a worthwhile pursuit to discuss it again, provided we keep it civil.

On one hand, methadone clincs provide an important service for staving people off of opiate addiction (especially heroin) and deserve to be at places easily accessible by public transportation.

On the other hand, the presence of a methadone clinic can be associated with higher crime and homelessness activity in the area it is built. Is Center City a good place for one, then?

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Raja

Read JaLogoJa's comment.

https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/co..._starbucks_store_among_16_closing_in_us/

I deleted my Reddit account due to the state of r/Philadelphia. It has descended past the point of civil debate in most discussions and everyone there is either "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG" or "EVERYTHING —." It's become very polarizing.

[iheartphilly]

^
@ Raja, Amazing but not surprising! I have friends that work retail and in some stores (not Starbucks), this — is all too common. People come in and steal and do all sorts of illegal — and in my former career, I witnessed some of these crazy and sometimes dangerous situations.