DETROIT | Hudson's Detroit | 685 FT & 240 FT | 49 & 14 FLOORS

[Velvet_Highground]

Sex indeed

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by DetroitSky

Thanks for the updates! The facade looks even better in person. I can't wait to see the finished product.

Can't see anything much yet. They only put up a tiny sample of the façade.
But yeah, panels seem nice looking.

[DZH22]

https://www.bridgedetroit.com/bedroc...-hudsons-site/

"The council will likely vote next week on whether to approve a 10-year tax abatement, but city officials said the project’s financial viability relies on the temporary tax cut."

[seabee1526]

Originally Posted by DZH22

https://www.bridgedetroit.com/bedroc...-hudsons-site/

"The council will likely vote next week on whether to approve a 10-year tax abatement, but city officials said the project’s financial viability relies on the temporary tax cut."

I’m more interested in the Monroe Blocks tease.

[DetroitSky]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Can't see anything much yet. They only put up a tiny sample of the façade.
But yeah, panels seem nice looking.

What? I walk by the site almost daily. The entire second floor facade is complete on the Farmer Street side and they're started along Woodward.

Deadline Detroit's photo of the day shows the project, though the glass on this side is out of the shot to the left. Still a cool shot nonetheless:

[rlw777]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Facade is indeed going up. East side of the Block. Taken by me June 5th.

What happened to the bronze?

[animatedmartian]

I don't think it's entirely bronze. It's likely a mix of terracotta and possibly some copper alloy. At least in person that how it looks.

Also keep in mind, renders do often embellish what might be actually be visible in reality. Real materials aren't often that reflective in real life except for very specific light conditions. Most of the time, everything looks darker in reality than it does in renderings.

[DZH22]

Another update on the tax break (postponed). Sounds like there's a lot of public sentiment against it. If they don't get it, would they just cap the tower early, or would they leave a partially finished tower indefinitely? Is the full 685' tower still feasible without this tax break?

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ed/7620114001/

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by DZH22

Another update on the tax break (postponed). Sounds like there's a lot of public sentiment against it. If they don't get it, would they just cap the tower early, or would they leave a partially finished tower indefinitely? Is the full 685' tower still feasible without this tax break?

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ed/7620114001/

Dan Gilbert has been quoted before stating that he expects to take a loss on this project for at least the first few years after construction. But he'd counter it by saying that this project will have additional benefits beyond the site itself, likely referring the the foot traffic and business it'll bring in (which is true, but he is a salesman after all).

This tax break seems like it's basically to shore up whatever losses that Gilbert will incur after construction. It comes off as kind of greedy, imo. Everyone knows this is a big expensive project but trying to make it profitable with taxpayer money seems like it could easily turn into a never ending endeavor with minimal benefits to the public. Especially after they removed the proposed public observation deck which would have been great for the city.

Would it halt the project? Unlikely. Would Gilbert whine a bit to get as much in tax breaks as he can? Very likely.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by DZH22

Another update on the tax break (postponed). Sounds like there's a lot of public sentiment against it. If they don't get it, would they just cap the tower early, or would they leave a partially finished tower indefinitely? Is the full 685' tower still feasible without this tax break?

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ed/7620114001/

lol it's 60 million over ten years. Pennies compared to the full cost of the project. So no they would not change anything.

They have signed agreements with tenants right now and they would cancel the state incentives and it would make no economic sense on top of all that.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by rlw777

What happened to the bronze?

It's right there? Looks exactly like the facade samples we saw last year. The renders exaggerated the sheen. That photo is also taken in a shadow.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

This tax break seems like it's basically to shore up whatever losses that Gilbert will incur after construction. It comes off as kind of greedy, imo. Everyone knows this is a big expensive project but trying to make it profitable with taxpayer money seems like it could easily turn into a never ending endeavor with minimal benefits to the public. Especially after they removed the proposed public observation deck which would have been great for the city.

Would it halt the project? Unlikely. Would Gilbert whine a bit to get as much in tax breaks as he can? Very likely.

I don't see it as greedy. The city's tax policy is completely fucked up. Literally every development gets some kind of tax break because of it. The city's commercial property tax is double the national average. And the taxes would mainly go to the downtown development authority.

[Velvet_Highground]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Dan Gilbert has been quoted before stating that he expects to take a loss on this project for at least the first few years after construction. But he'd counter it by saying that this project will have additional benefits beyond the site itself, likely referring the the foot traffic and business it'll bring in (which is true, but he is a salesman after all).

This tax break seems like it's basically to shore up whatever losses that Gilbert will incur after construction. It comes off as kind of greedy, imo. Everyone knows this is a big expensive project but trying to make it profitable with taxpayer money seems like it could easily turn into a never ending endeavor with minimal benefits to the public. Especially after they removed the proposed public observation deck which would have been great for the city.

Would it halt the project? Unlikely. Would Gilbert whine a bit to get as much in tax breaks as he can? Very likely.

I think he sees it as a legacy project a new city center around campus martius but Hudsons is the center piece. The site has an emotional resonance recreating a grand physical presence recreated is something that we all wanted and he delivered the a good modern replacement and a showpiece.

He is a damn fine salesman like I said he sold us exactly what we wanted. It would get built but it have been scaled back again and again the economy is on a razor edge right now depending on the outcome of a war in Europe. Beset by economics seems to be the fate of many great Detroit projects. This time i think there was a need for the city to get it right this one last time before it sank to irrelevancy post bankruptcy.

I fully agree that it’s not sustainable or sound to set the precedent of underwriting to the point where it’s expected. It’s the slipperiest of slopes developers who would build anyways can point and say I can’t unless I get the same treatment.

District detroit is the prime example of what can go wrong to top it off in a way they’re getting bailed out by Stephen Ross, recentering the project around his project.

I liked the idea of one or two projects a year across the state being applicable that are game changing and to keep the project locked in incase the economy tanks.

But when it comes down to it the idea is only sound if your building towards an self sustaining economy using this tool will lead to not needing to use it again on a project like this. It’s not that I don’t agree with the statement I just wanted to add in what I thought was an addendum.


Why am I thinking of Fordlandia right now …

[Velvet_Highground]

Oh I was out of touch with the latest news on the 60 mill he’s asking for. I don’t think it’s a good idea as much as it would suck to have to downsize a few floors if he’s worried he won’t make a return for years then so be it. The city managed to ride out Covid without losing much pace on recovery but everyone ones been effected there a lot of pain and anger I didn’t hear he was asking for more money just that costs had ballooned

[kingsdl76]

When is the projected completion date for this building?

[The North One]

Originally Posted by kingsdl76

when is the projected completion date for this building?

2024

[pianowizard]

2023 for the block.

[seabee1526]

Kinda sounds like a threat.

https://youtu.be/jgaXc_qZaak

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by seabee1526

Kinda sounds like a threat.

https://youtu.be/jgaXc_qZaak

“None of this is a threat”

Proceeds to threaten to scale back project and investments in Detroit.

[animatedmartian]

First they mention he only took out a $400 million dollar loan for a $1 billion dollar project.

Then they say that Gilbert might reconsider his investments in the city.



Wassup? Gilbert credit score down bad? Did he have to pay more than 10% interest on the loan?

Secondly, we just gonna ignore all the other investments other entities have made in the city? Even though everyone attributes all the construction activity downtown to Dan Gilbert, he's not the only one investing (or even the first and only to get tax breaks), nor is he going to be the last to do so. Most expensive and most high-profile projects, most definitely, but not the only person to invest in the city.

I'm not even worried about the tax money that may or may not go to schools or public infrastructure or whatever. It's just the principal of not using your own money to fund your private project. A billionaire can't fund his own project(s), dude. What's the point of being a billionaire developer at that point?

I may be yelling into the void here since it's likely the council might end up approving it because "well, we don't want to alienate our business owners" and yada yada yada. But it still should be mentioned that an over-reliance on tax breaks isn't really a way towards sustainable growth.


Anyway, that story included a drone view of the site.

• Video Link