Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 94

lio45 · #**1861** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 2:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar

Many think that French stops being spoken as soon as you cross the Ottawa river. People are always surprised when I tell them that many places in Eastern Ontario are primarily francophone. Some also think you’re supposed to switch to English as soon as you enter NW New Brunswick and that Acadiens only speak French as a second language.

Even I was surprised at how Francophone Edmundston was.

Dengler Avenue · #**1862** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 3:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Even I was surprised at how Francophone Edmundston was.

Funny enough, someone from there got upset at me saying that Edmundston’s effectively an extension of Québec (or MRC Témiscouata, for that matter).

Acajack · #**1863** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 3:28 PM**

In terms of feel Edmundston NB is the most Québécois place outside Quebec you are going to find. That's due in part to its location but also to the fact that its population is not very Acadien and is more Québécois (or old "Canadien") in origins. "Acadia" and "Canada" were two distinct colonies and their settlers didn't come from the same regions of France.

Most people in Edmundston don't identify as Acadien, but they don't identify as Québécois either.

They have their own identity which is "Brayon".

Aside from that, Hawkesbury in Ontario also feels quite Québécois, though it's not as quasi-wholly francophone as Edmundston is.

Plus Ontario doesn't give its francophone areas as much slack as New Brunswick does. The Province of New Brunswick basically operates in French only in places like Edmundston (and also Caraquet-Tracadie-Shippagan).

Ontario doesn't do that anywhere. Not even in Hawkesbury, Casselman and Hearst.

thewave46 · #**1864** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 3:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Plus Ontario doesn't give its francophone areas as much slack as New Brunswick does. The Province of New Brunswick basically operates in French only in places like Edmundston (and also Caraquet-Tracadie-Shippagan).

Ontario doesn't do that anywhere. Not even in Hawkesbury, Casselman and Hearst.

One might argue that the province of Ontario barely operates in those places at all, considering it forgot that Ottawa was in the same province earlier this year.

“Hearst? Never heard of her.” said Doug.

MonctonRad · #**1865** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 4:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

One might argue that the province of Ontario barely operates in those places at all, considering it forgot that Ottawa was in the same province earlier this year.

If only the Quebec government forgot about the few remaining anglophone villages in the Pontiac and Estrie. Then perhaps they would be left alone in peace rather than occasionally being swarmed by agents of the Surete de Langue, searching all their computers, confiscating their cellphones and measuring the lettering on all their signs.

OldDartmouthMark · #**1866** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 4:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

My "just sayin" was more like a "...something you might want to consider". Sorry for the confusion.

While I will be the first to admit that I spend a good deal of my life in a state of confusion, I don't think that's the case here.

Regardless, it's all good. I enjoy conversations such as this, lots of ideas being thrown around, new ideas to consider and some more to agree or disagree with. It's healthy, IMHO.

OldDartmouthMark · #**1867** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

In terms of feel Edmundston NB is the most Québécois place outside Quebec you are going to find. That's due in part to its location but also to the fact that its population is not very Acadien and is more Québécois (or old "Canadien") in origins. "Acadia" and "Canada" were two distinct colonies and their settlers didn't come from the same regions of France.

Most people in Edmundston don't identify as Acadien, but they don't identify as Québécois either.

They have their own identity which is "Brayon".

Aside from that, Hawkesbury in Ontario also feels quite Québécois, though it's not as quasi-wholly francophone as Edmundston is.

Plus Ontario doesn't give its francophone areas as much slack as New Brunswick does. The Province of New Brunswick basically operates in French only in places like Edmundston (and also Caraquet-Tracadie-Shippagan).

Ontario doesn't do that anywhere. Not even in Hawkesbury, Casselman and Hearst.

Great post!

MolsonExport · #**1868** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 4:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Even I was surprised at how Francophone Edmundston was.

Edmundston feels like one of the most francophone places on the planet. It almost feels more French than Chicoutimi. Sort of like Hawkesbury and Hearst.

Acajack · #**1869** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 5:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

“Hearst? Never heard of her.” said Doug.

Around the time he was first elected Premier, Doug Ford was asked about the Franco-Ontarian community and clearly didn't know his province had an established French-speaking population, as he muddled some platitude about economic ties with Quebec being of critical importance for Ontario.

He later found out they do exist when his government tussled with them on a few files.

Acajack · #**1870** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 5:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

One might argue that the province of Ontario barely operates in those places at all, considering it forgot that Ottawa was in the same province earlier this year.
.

Yeah, I know.

But in terms of what provincial government presence there is...

For example, the RCMP under contract from the Province of New Brunswick handles policing in the Edmundston area. Like it does in NE NB, the RCMP pretty much operates in French only there with all francophone officers (or at least with advanced French), radio communications and reports in French, etc. (Even if there are a handful of anglo towns scattered through the area.)

The OPP does not do this at all in Prescott-Russell (the area around Hawkesbury). The OPP actually has a decent number of unilingual anglophone officers assigned to the area.

The RCMP doesn't do that in the very francophone areas of NB.

Or for something like the provincial highways department. In the Edmundston area, like in the NE, operations take place in French pretty much from A to Z.

Again, that's not the case in Eastern Ontario, even in areas that are further away from Ottawa and which are very francophone. (Obviously, employees may speak in French amongst themselves for part of the day but anything that is remotely official for work takes place in English.)

ToxiK · #**1871** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Although most people did not complain about the quality of Jean Chretien's English.

He wasn't much better in French...

lio45 · #**1872** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 9:30 PM**

JT is another good example — he manages to sound retarded in both official languages.

thewave46 · #**1873** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 11:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Around the time he was first elected Premier, Doug Ford was asked about the Franco-Ontarian community and clearly didn't know his province had an established French-speaking population, as he muddled some platitude about economic ties with Quebec being of critical importance for Ontario.

He later found out they do exist when his government tussled with them on a few files.

Doug found out a lot of things.

From the particularly low bar of being the brother of a crack-smoking Toronto mayor and who once handed out $20 bills for votes on a housing project, he actually did manage to kind of be better than the train wreck I expected, especially during a crisis that did challenge even competent leaders.

But no, I expect no love from Franco-Ontarians for him, and I imagine the feeling is reciprocated. About the only thing I will say is that he is honest about being clueless on the file. Utterly, completely, and truly honest.

Oddly enough, as clueless as he may be about the members of his own province, he doesn’t seem to particularly care about taking Quebec down a notch or picking a fight. It is just an odd juxtaposition I’ve noticed about the Premier of Ontario. One would think the guy might be militantly anti-Francophone given his political base, but he just doesn’t care.

1overcosc · #**1874** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 11:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

Doug found out a lot of things.

From the particularly low bar of being the brother of a crack-smoking Toronto mayor and who once handed out $20 bills for votes on a housing project, he actually did manage to kind of be better than the train wreck I expected, especially during a crisis that did challenge even competent leaders.

But no, I expect no love from Franco-Ontarians for him, and I imagine the feeling is reciprocated. About the only thing I will say is that he is honest about being clueless on the file. Utterly, completely, and truly honest.

Oddly enough, as clueless as he may be about the members of his own province, he doesn’t seem to particularly care about taking Quebec down a notch or picking a fight. It is just an odd juxtaposition I’ve noticed about the Premier of Ontario. One would think the guy might be militantly anti-Francophone given his political base, but he just doesn’t care.

Amanda Simard is expected to have a tough time getting re-elected (she's running as Liberal this time), so we shall see.

Acajack · #**1875** Posted **Jun 3, 2022, 12:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Amanda Simard is expected to have a tough time getting re-elected (she's running as Liberal this time), so we shall see.

You think? I'd put good money (among other things

) on Amanda tonight.

Acajack · #**1876** Posted **Jun 3, 2022, 12:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

Doug found out a lot of things.

From the particularly low bar of being the brother of a crack-smoking Toronto mayor and who once handed out $20 bills for votes on a housing project, he actually did manage to kind of be better than the train wreck I expected, especially during a crisis that did challenge even competent leaders.

But no, I expect no love from Franco-Ontarians for him, and I imagine the feeling is reciprocated. About the only thing I will say is that he is honest about being clueless on the file. Utterly, completely, and truly honest.

Oddly enough, as clueless as he may be about the members of his own province, he doesn’t seem to particularly care about taking Quebec down a notch or picking a fight. It is just an odd juxtaposition I’ve noticed about the Premier of Ontario. One would think the guy might be militantly anti-Francophone given his political base, but he just doesn’t care.

Ontario Premiers (especially Tories) have often been tone-deaf to Franco-Ontarians, but Ontario Premiers of any stripe very very rarely bash Quebec. And Quebec Premiers almost never bash Ontario either.

MonctonRad · #**1877** Posted **Jun 3, 2022, 1:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ontario Premiers (especially Tories) have often been tone-deaf to Franco-Ontarians, but Ontario Premiers of any stripe very very rarely bash Quebec. And Quebec Premiers almost never bash Ontario either.

The original Deux Solitudes..........