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  #6301  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 4:06 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Today’s departure count: 59

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
Thanks for your continued effort in posting these numbers... I have been enjoying the fact that YOW seems to be at ~60-65 for the past few weeks... hopefully we will be at 70 by the end of June.
Glad you still enjoy seeing them.
     
     
  #6302  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 5:15 AM
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harls harls is offline
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Everything connects through Toronto now. I miss the days when I could actually get a direct flight to Winnipeg without connecting at YYZ.

To the airlines' credit, it is usually not a terrible connection (at least for domestic flights). The next gate is usually steps away.
     
     
  #6303  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 12:01 PM
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YOWflier YOWflier is offline
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Errr, on any given day there are 1-4 nonstop flights to Winnipeg from Ottawa. Air Canada, Westjet, Flair, Swoop.

Google flights is your friend.

flights.google.com

Origin: YOW
Destination: YWG
Filter: non-stop flights only
     
     
  #6304  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 12:48 PM
BenYOW BenYOW is offline
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The Taxiway R development project is moving along well - shown below in May 2022. The taxiway alignment is now becoming clear through the earthworks.

     
     
  #6305  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 1:58 PM
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YOWflier YOWflier is offline
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Based on that photo, are you able to tell us specifically where the new CRC and “private hangar” will go?
     
     
  #6306  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 7:52 PM
chuckr99 chuckr99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyYOW View Post
Based on that photo, are you able to tell us specifically where the new CRC and “private hangar” will go?
CRC is where the giant pile of earth is, private hangar roughly on the grassy area just north of hangar 14.
     
     
  #6307  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 11:16 PM
solo748 solo748 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanofYOW View Post
I'm no expert nor have I ever worked for an airline but based on what I know, this is what I think YOW deserves and could easily make work:

1) Las Vegas - I'm sorry but what 1.5m people city does not have this?
2) SFO and LAX - We have O&D of 50k to each of these, maybe more pre-pandemic. A daily 100 seater plane CAN make this work. AC just doesn't want to hand Western connections to United via San Fran.
3) Dallas - About a 20k O&D which can support a 3x weekly schedule.
4) Miami - Not everyone wants to go to stop in Fort Lauderdale.
5) Phoenix - Another ~20k O&D
6) Europe: London, Frankfurt, and Paris. We have good supporting O&D to these places.
7) Huge hopes of mine for Europe: Amsterdam, Rome, Lisbon, and Barcelona (just hopes, I have no idea what our O&D's are).
All great destinations, but for routes to be viable from YOW on a scheduled carrier, there needs to be a strong local market and/or excellent connection opportunities to higher yielding destinations.
1) LAS - strong local demand but low yielding. Perhaps flair/WS a couple times per week at some point
2) SFO/LAX : Medium local demand and higher yielding. No real chance here. *A will route pax via ORD/YYZ/YUL
3) DFW - no chance. A city like DFW cannot be served 3x weekly and, as you point out, there's no more demand. Plus, AA not going to overfly ORD when there are a very limited destinantions served from DFW not served from ORD
4) MIA - best chance. Daily double. An AM southound flight for O/D and a PM flight for O/D and to connect to AA's South American bank
5) PHX - see LAS. Same story, with less demand
6) LHR/CDG/FRA - for sure. 2 of 3 as they'll cannabalize each other and demand is limited
7) no chance unfortunately.

YOW needs to get a gameplan in place. Incentivize a route to MIA. I'm sure this will piss off AC. Shame AA doesnt have 120 seats other than A319s (At least, I dont think they do)
     
     
  #6308  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 12:36 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo748 View Post
All great destinations, but for routes to be viable from YOW on a scheduled carrier, there needs to be a strong local market and/or excellent connection opportunities to higher yielding destinations.
1) LAS - strong local demand but low yielding. Perhaps flair/WS a couple times per week at some point
2) SFO/LAX : Medium local demand and higher yielding. No real chance here. *A will route pax via ORD/YYZ/YUL
3) DFW - no chance. A city like DFW cannot be served 3x weekly and, as you point out, there's no more demand. Plus, AA not going to overfly ORD when there are a very limited destinantions served from DFW not served from ORD
4) MIA - best chance. Daily double. An AM southound flight for O/D and a PM flight for O/D and to connect to AA's South American bank
5) PHX - see LAS. Same story, with less demand
6) LHR/CDG/FRA - for sure. 2 of 3 as they'll cannabalize each other and demand is limited
7) no chance unfortunately.

YOW needs to get a gameplan in place. Incentivize a route to MIA. I'm sure this will piss off AC. Shame AA doesnt have 120 seats other than A319s (At least, I dont think they do)
Makes sense to me. I don't know what is allowed in the Canadian context but a lot of creative incentives for airports actually interested in expanding routes. Discounts for new routes or volume discounts for example.
     
     
  #6309  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 1:22 AM
fanofYOW fanofYOW is online now
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Solo748 and YOWetal - You both make very good points about my list. But I am really curious as to what our O&D's to these places ACTUALLY are when you factor in those who drive to YUL. I see a lot of travellers at my work and just out of my own curiosity and interest, I ask them where they are leaving from and it's incredible how many say they are driving to YUL to catch a flight. Imagine if we had those numbers starting in YOW.... Oh well.
     
     
  #6310  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 2:19 AM
MountainView MountainView is offline
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I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and speculation on what might happen. No matter the time period (1-25 years).

I'll throw a curveball out there.... let's pretend Porter announces YOW as a major jet base hub. Let's say they start with YVR & YYC as Canadian destinations, but also throw in LAX or SFO from YOW. Even at sub-daily... let's say 4-6x weekly.

How does AC respond, if at all?

Will potential Porter routes lead to new routes from AC to defend their territory?

Porter will not have a business class cabin... so those who often fly in business/first may continue to fly AC or UA... but will the economy cabin folks affect how AC thinks? Or will AC be OK giving up some VFR travelers and keep routing higher yielding pax via YYZ/YUL... and will those higher yielding travelers choose a connection in a premium seat versus a direct flight?

Would love to hear other folks thoughts. Cheers!
     
     
  #6311  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 3:51 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and speculation on what might happen. No matter the time period (1-25 years).

I'll throw a curveball out there.... let's pretend Porter announces YOW as a major jet base hub. Let's say they start with YVR & YYC as Canadian destinations, but also throw in LAX or SFO from YOW. Even at sub-daily... let's say 4-6x weekly.

How does AC respond, if at all?

Will potential Porter routes lead to new routes from AC to defend their territory?

Porter will not have a business class cabin... so those who often fly in business/first may continue to fly AC or UA... but will the economy cabin folks affect how AC thinks? Or will AC be OK giving up some VFR travelers and keep routing higher yielding pax via YYZ/YUL... and will those higher yielding travelers choose a connection in a premium seat versus a direct flight?

Would love to hear other folks thoughts. Cheers!
History shows they will defend. I'd think Porter might try somewhere like Abbotsford which might discourage AC and also brings East of us connection possibilities even at decent fare levels.

Vancouver business class must be a lot of Asian bound traffic anyway. I know I'd choose Porter direct over business especially of its my budget and I can send three people instead of two. I bet AC doesn't want to take the chance.

I mean we are all biased but there is a market for sure from Ottawa and I am not sure how much of a draw Aeroplan is anymore.
     
     
  #6312  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 3:13 PM
fanofYOW fanofYOW is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and speculation on what might happen. No matter the time period (1-25 years).

I'll throw a curveball out there.... let's pretend Porter announces YOW as a major jet base hub. Let's say they start with YVR & YYC as Canadian destinations, but also throw in LAX or SFO from YOW. Even at sub-daily... let's say 4-6x weekly.

How does AC respond, if at all?

Will potential Porter routes lead to new routes from AC to defend their territory?

Porter will not have a business class cabin... so those who often fly in business/first may continue to fly AC or UA... but will the economy cabin folks affect how AC thinks? Or will AC be OK giving up some VFR travelers and keep routing higher yielding pax via YYZ/YUL... and will those higher yielding travelers choose a connection in a premium seat versus a direct flight?

Would love to hear other folks thoughts. Cheers!
Good question. I think people on this forum already know my views of AC and WS. I have lost hope completely with those two. To them, as long as their beloved YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR are well taken care of with as many options as they could ever want/need, then they're happy. I understand the difference between a hub and spoke, but in my opinion, AC and WS have taken it to an extreme. They're not dumb though, they should know that if another airline comes in and makes their non-hub airports a hub, they're done. That being said, I think AC will just lower their price, no more, no less. Someone who works as a flight attendant with AC said maybe Porter's expansion will be the kick they need to add direct routes in YOW, but I don't have hopes for that. Like I said, for as long as they consider us a feeder to YYZ and YUL so they can keep catering to those airports, they're not going to budge their route strategy.

It probably won't be right away, but I can for sure see service in YYZ and YUL drop when everyone from YOW starts taking direct routes to Canadian destinations and the US. I can also see Porter ordering the 321neo half a decade from now and starting European destinations. If they line up a strategic codeshare agreement with other airlines, AC and WS are totally done in YOW.
     
     
  #6313  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 3:52 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Today's departure count of 68 marks the highest since the start of the pandemic. It also marks the return of year-round service to YWG and YQB and summer seasonal service to YYG on AC.
     
     
  #6314  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 5:17 PM
Coho Coho is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
Today's departure count of 68 marks the highest since the start of the pandemic. It also marks the return of year-round service to YWG and YQB and summer seasonal service to YYG on AC.
What were the 2019 daily departure averages?
     
     
  #6315  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 6:31 PM
MountainView MountainView is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coho View Post
What were the 2019 daily departure averages?
In 2019 YOW averaged 83 non-stop flights within Canada and 19 non-stop transborder flights per day, with 22 weekly international non-stop flights.
     
     
  #6316  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 6:43 PM
Coho Coho is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
In 2019 YOW averaged 83 non-stop flights within Canada and 19 non-stop transborder flights per day, with 22 weekly international non-stop flights.
Cool, thanks. So roughly 105 daily departures (if you roughly divide the 22 weekly INTL flights by 7).
     
     
  #6317  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 9:03 PM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Flair Airlines to continue flying after regulator approves changes solidifying its Canadian ownership

Eric Atkins, Transportation Reporter
The Globe and Mail
Published 4 hours ago | Updated 7 minutes ago


Canada’s transportation regulator has allowed Flair Airlines to continue flying passengers after the Edmonton-based carrier agreed to make changes that loosen the grip of its U.S. investor and comply with the laws over foreign ownership of airlines.

The Canadian Transportation Agency’s ruling, released on Wednesday, ends a months-long investigation by the quasi-judicial body into Flair’s compliance with those laws.

At a news conference in Edmonton, Flair chief executive officer Stephen Jones said the airline made “significant concessions” to the regulator in order to keep its operating licence. He said it was a “fantastic day for team Flair.”

“We are thrilled to receive the decision that reinforces that Flair is Canadian,” Mr. Jones said. “The question has been answered.”

The CTA’s preliminary finding on March 3 said Flair might not be a Canadian airline because its U.S. investor, 777 Partners of Miami, was a major lender, provider of leased aircraft and controlled the board of directors. This would have put Flair in violation of Canada’s control-in-fact rules, which prohibit foreign companies from calling the shots at airlines.

The CTA said in its final ruling on Wednesday that Flair will add Canadians to its board and remove 777 Partners’ veto rights over its decisions on the sale, purchase or lease of aircraft. Flair also amended a loan agreement with 777 Partners to ensure funding will be available until 2026, “thereby considerably mitigating 777′s ability to exert influence over Flair.”

“Flair has demonstrated it can generate positive cash flow from operations, alleviating concerns it would be dependent on 777 for additional new financing,” the CTA said.

The CTA found Flair continues to be dependent on 777 Partners for most of its debt and aircraft leases. But 777 Partners’ loss of the veto over leasing selection, and Flair’s assertion is it cash-flow positive restricts the U.S. investor’s influence, the CTA said.

“The agency finds, after considering all of the facts, that the changes implemented since the agency’s preliminary determination … have addressed the concerns raised by the agency,” the CTA said. “As Flair meets the incorporation and voting interest requirements and that Canadians control in fact Flair, Flair is Canadian.”

Foreigners can own up to 49 per cent of a Canadian airline, with no single entity holding more than 25 per cent. In Flair’s case, 777 Partners owns 25 per cent of the airline, but also transferred its rights to another party to covert debt to equity. This allowed it to influence who owns Flair, the CTA said.

Flair is 58 per cent owned by Canadians and 42 per cent by “non-Canadians,” the agency said. Flair’s new board will be comprised of seven Canadians and two principals from 777 Partners, Mr. Jones said.

Mr. Jones said he would like to see Canadian laws change to allow foreign airlines to fly domestic routes within Canada, as they do in Australia and New Zealand. “You could apply the same model here which would allow a strong and more vibrant domestic competition,” he said.

Flair flies a fleet of 14 leased Boeing 737s to several domestic, U.S. and Caribbean destinations, and bills itself as a low-cost airline.

Mr. Jones said Flair’s low-fare model would not change under the new board leadership, and plans to expand the fleet to 30 planes by next year are not changed. The fleet will number 19 by July, Mr. Jones said.

The CTA is an independent body whose rulings have the weight of a court. Its decisions can be appealed with leave to the Federal Court of Appeal.

John McKenna, head of the Air Transport Association of Canada, which represents airlines and aviation companies, said the CTA’s ruling did not provide enough details on Flair’s foreign ownership and its debt. He said the group is still looking at the ruling and had no official comment yet.

The CTA posted its decision at noon on Wednesday, but a draft of the ruling was visible on its website before 10 a.m. ET before disappearing. “The glitch happened as we were coding,” the CTA said. “It was fixed a few minutes after it was noticed.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...flying-after-regulator-approves-changes/
     
     
  #6318  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 9:30 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coho View Post
Cool, thanks. So roughly 105 daily departures (if you roughly divide the 22 weekly INTL flights by 7).
Yup and more like 110-115 on most weekdays with fewer on weekends. Saturdays were probably more in the 85-90 range and 95 on Sundays.

Now that we have ULCCs in town, the day-to-day variation is higher with all the less-than-daily or less-than-daily on business days flights/routes...and that's good news for consumers about Flair.
     
     
  #6319  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2022, 5:01 PM
Phileas Phileas is offline
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Re: Flair Airlines

When I called Flair this morning (since I had difficulty to manage my bookings online) to my great deception and surprise all my four (4) flights booked longtime ago were cancelled without receiving any emails. The agent confirmed no more flights YOW-FLL until further notice and he was unable to confirm the reason.
     
     
  #6320  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2022, 5:20 PM
fanofYOW fanofYOW is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
When I called Flair this morning (since I had difficulty to manage my bookings online) to my great deception and surprise all my four (4) flights booked longtime ago were cancelled without receiving any emails. The agent confirmed no more flights YOW-FLL until further notice and he was unable to confirm the reason.
Strange. Not sure why that would be, I thought this route was very successful with a lot of uptake. On a side note, does anyone have an idea of when Porter will make their grand announcement? I thought it would be this week, not sure if it's too late. I figured they'd want to announce it on a Monday so they can have the whole week for interviews and what not?
     
     
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