Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[AuxTown]

I honestly think we don't need much for a city our size but we desperately need/deserve a few direct destinations:

London - no question the 888/889 needs to come back soon!
LAS - I can't believe a city our size doesn't have a direct flight to arguably the biggest tourist city (trap?) in North America
Frankfurt/Amsterdam - I don't care which one. We just need one other option as a gateway into the rest of Europe and the world. Heathrow is annoying and not always ideal for a lot of connections from NA.
MEX - I am surprised there isn't more demand for this one as well. Would be an excellent gateway to South America. Either that or Miami.

Curious what the experts think??

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I honestly think we don't need much for a city our size but we desperately need/deserve a few direct destinations:

London - no question the 888/889 needs to come back soon!
LAS - I can't believe a city our size doesn't have a direct flight to arguably the biggest tourist city (trap?) in North America
Frankfurt/Amsterdam - I don't care which one. We just need one other option as a gateway into the rest of Europe and the world. Heathrow is annoying and not always ideal for a lot of connections from NA.
MEX - I am surprised there isn't more demand for this one as well. Would be an excellent gateway to South America. Either that or Miami.

Curious what the experts think??

I'm no expert, but I would add Paris to this list.
I used to work as a travel agent in the 90s, and the demand was unreal during the summer months.
I also came across an AF document a few years ago listing YOW as a desired destination.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I asked before but how good could it be? I guess an LAX or LAS flight would be useful. Miami too but they will all be connectionless I assume?
The real need is Europe and that is not on the table.

Look at what Westjet has become in 28 years. That’s how good it could be.

Porter is a long term play; magic won’t happen on day 1. If we can become the/a primary jet base and have them establish significant passenger feed through YOW to complement our region’s O&D the sky’s the limit.

Flights to Florida and Caribbean
Flights to Western Canada
Flights to Western USA (LAX and/or SFO and/or LAS)
Flights to NYC, Chicago, Washington
Partnerships/interlines with US airlines (Jetblue?) where they feed one another through YOW and the corresponding US bases (JFK, FLL)
Partnerships/interlines with Euro airlines (Aer Lingus?) where they feed one another through YOW
Alliance membership like Oneworld

All this works take a decade or two or more to build but now is the time where construction starts. It also assumes Porter survives of course. They’re basically building a new airline after stagnating for years and they need a new home. We need to be that home. And to do it we need Ottawans and Gatineans to stop driving elsewhere for flights and support the local situation.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Look at what Westjet has become in 28 years. That’s how good it could be.

Porter is a long term play; magic won’t happen on day 1. If we can become the/a primary jet base and have them establish significant passenger feed through YOW to complement our region’s O&D the sky’s the limit.

Flights to Florida and Caribbean
Flights to Western Canada
Flights to Western USA (LAX and/or SFO and/or LAS)
Flights to NYC, Chicago, Washington
Partnerships/interlines with US airlines (Jetblue?) where they feed one another through YOW and the corresponding US bases (JFK, FLL)
Partnerships/interlines with Euro airlines (Aer Lingus?) where they feed one another through YOW
Alliance membership like Oneworld

All this works take a decade or two or more to build but now is the time where construction starts. It also assumes Porter survives of course. They’re basically building a new airline after stagnating for years and they need a new home. We need to be that home. And to do it we need Ottawans and Gatineans to stop driving elsewhere for flights and support the local situation.

Yep the sky is the limit with Porter. Thinking the long game and think 10 years into the future an maybe you'll see PD with 321XLRs.

In the immediate term, here's today's departure count: 63

[chuckr99]

Just saw that the E2 “profit hunter” landed in Toronto earlier. Tweet says it is there for several events with Porter in the coming days. Would have to imagine an announcement is imminent.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I honestly think we don't need much for a city our size but we desperately need/deserve a few direct destinations:

London - no question the 888/889 needs to come back soon!
LAS - I can't believe a city our size doesn't have a direct flight to arguably the biggest tourist city (trap?) in North America
Frankfurt/Amsterdam - I don't care which one. We just need one other option as a gateway into the rest of Europe and the world. Heathrow is annoying and not always ideal for a lot of connections from NA.
MEX - I am surprised there isn't more demand for this one as well. Would be an excellent gateway to South America. Either that or Miami.

Curious what the experts think??

I'm no expert nor have I ever worked for an airline but based on what I know, this is what I think YOW deserves and could easily make work:

1) Las Vegas - I'm sorry but what 1.5m people city does not have this?
2) SFO and LAX - We have O&D of 50k to each of these, maybe more pre-pandemic. A daily 100 seater plane CAN make this work. AC just doesn't want to hand Western connections to United via San Fran.
3) Dallas - About a 20k O&D which can support a 3x weekly schedule.
4) Miami - Not everyone wants to go to stop in Fort Lauderdale.
5) Phoenix - Another ~20k O&D
6) Europe: London, Frankfurt, and Paris. We have good supporting O&D to these places.
7) Huge hopes of mine for Europe: Amsterdam, Rome, Lisbon, and Barcelona (just hopes, I have no idea what our O&D's are).

Remember also that Porter has said they may change their minds and also include the smaller version of the E2's to their fleet. This quote comes directly from Porter: "Included in the agreement is the ability to convert purchase rights to smaller E190-E2s. Porter has said this provides opportunities to introduce nonstop service in markets where connecting flights are often the only option, and also enables higher-frequency service for routes with greater demand."

Every airline not only looks at data to find out where they want to fly, they also have different risk tolerances. Some airlines like to play around with routes to see what will be profitable. Porter seems to be one of the riskier ones since they have air service to places that normally have very low demand like Muskoka or Mont Tremblant. They may implement direct routes to places with little data from YOW with these planes as "just a test" then upgrade as needed. Just my thoughts though. Not sure what the requirements are to join Oneworld, maybe Porter is too small for it, but if they do, it would be wonders for us in terms of connections with AA. If you look at the potential route map Porter posted, a lot of the US destinations are hubs for AA.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 62

Today's cancellation count: 3 / EDIT: 7 - 3 YTZ & 1 YYZ cancelled this evening.

Saturday's departure count: 51

Saturday's cancellation count (so far): 1

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by chuckr99

Just saw that the E2 “profit hunter” landed in Toronto earlier. Tweet says it is there for several events with Porter in the coming days. Would have to imagine an announcement is imminent.

So I would assume next week?

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

I'm no expert, but I would add Paris to this list.
I used to work as a travel agent in the 90s, and the demand was unreal during the summer months.
I also came across an AF document a few years ago listing YOW as a desired destination.

Absolutely agree. London, Mexico City, Frankfurt, Paris, and Las Vegas should absolutely be direct routes for Ottawa. There's definitely enough people who go there directly or go there to continue their route somewhere further.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

I'm no expert, but I would add Paris to this list.
I used to work as a travel agent in the 90s, and the demand was unreal during the summer months.
I also came across an AF document a few years ago listing YOW as a desired destination.

Ohhh that's interesting! I wonder what kind of document this was? AF to Paris would provide a world of connections, it makes too much sense to not be a thing.

[YOWflier]

If we can’t get LHR back pronto, everything else is a pipe dream.

The good thing is that government travel seems to be picking back up. Whether it’ll get back to levels sufficient enough to sustain LHR, FRA, and others remains to be seen.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 62, including a 5T charter to BNA/Nashville. I wonder what that’s for? Certainly not hockey, lol.

Today’s cancellation count: 1

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

If we can’t get LHR back pronto, everything else is a pipe dream.

The good thing is that government travel seems to be picking back up. Whether it’ll get back to levels sufficient enough to sustain LHR, FRA, and others remains to be seen.

I'm pretty sure you're right. I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure LHR is our biggest O&D. Would British Airways ever think to maybe beat AC to it? If that's on the table, they might steal the market share. Anyway, without LHR back, there's no way any other European destinations will start/restart. On a side note though, I think with the expansion of all these low cost airlines that are stimulating and creating demand, hopefully YOW's recovery in terms of numbers will recover quicker. If porter also makes YOW an actual hub with connecting passengers, those connecting passengers count in terms of numbers. So hopefully we get back to our 5 million pax a year soon. Speaking of which, I think their announcement on their plans is coming very very soon! They may stick to domestic travel at first, but at least we'll know what their intentions for YOW are with the initial set of routes.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 62, including a 5T charter to BNA/Nashville. I wonder what that’s for? Certainly not hockey, lol.

Probably Monster truck show last night at CTC.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

If we can’t get LHR back pronto, everything else is a pipe dream.

The good thing is that government travel seems to be picking back up. Whether it’ll get back to levels sufficient enough to sustain LHR, FRA, and others remains to be seen.

100% agree. I travelled through the airport 4 times this month and you can definitely tell it's getting busier.... it still seems "not normal" in the sense that some of the shops are still closed (i.e. Starbucks) and the new food court is not open yet.

The new security screening area is miles better than what we had before. When I travelled through YVR a lot in 2018-19 I was really enjoying their automated tray screening area, and I am so glad YOW has that now. Recently traversed YYC domestic pier C and they still have the old school system there...

Government travel is definitely picking up, but mostly economy domestic bookings right now as oppose to international conferences/events/etc. I also get the feeling in my chats with others that some folks are still hesitant to travel for work.

I, like you, always choose YOW for my travel. I did look for YUL bookings for a personal summer trip... but the fare difference is minimal and when travelling alone (or with one other) the difference disappears when considering fuel, parking, hotel, etc. Also... I want to land and immediately take a 15 mins taxi home. Some people don't value their personal time when the look at airfare costs.

I'm also booking on United for an NYC trip later this year because I don't want AC to cancel their planned YOW-EWR that is scheduled to resume in the fall. I am fairly loyal to AC... so I feel bad doing this to them, but I don't want to be rebooked on a YYZ connection if they cancel the direct flight... and part of me wants to say thank you to UA for resuming YOW when other American carriers haven't yet (plus it's still Star Alliance).

As for LHR... as you mention, that has to be the first to come back... or at least that will signal that YOW-Europe demand is strengthening. Especially in the first class cabin. I could also see LH bring back FRA before AC brings back LHR... it might depend on how bookings are going (lots of O&D at LHR vs. connections).

I think a lot of folks don't consider that AC wants to 100% solidify/rebound their hub flying before they reinstate other routes suspended from the pandemic. So right now, if YYZ isn't back to prepandemic levels... AC will pump their YYZ-Europe flights with folks from YOW. This is sort of evident with the fact that AC is only running 3x day YYZ-LHR instead of the regular 4x. There also seems to be a lot more 'tourism' travel versus business right now, so we at YOW are bound to pump up YYZ and YUL numbers by connecting there. AC is even planning to fly the A223 on an early evening YOW-YUL flight this summer... perhaps to connect more people on their evening bank (and have a business class cabin).

Anyways - I also just wanted to say thanks for your contribution to the forum and for your support of YOW over the years.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 62, including a 5T charter to BNA/Nashville. I wonder what that’s for? Certainly not hockey, lol.

Today’s cancellation count: 1

Thanks for your continued effort in posting these numbers... I have been enjoying the fact that YOW seems to be at ~60-65 for the past few weeks... hopefully we will be at 70 by the end of June.

[solo748]

The reason why YOW doesnt get the service isn't specifically the proximity to YUL/SYR. It's because a so many Ottawa folks would drive to save $. Ottawa is wealthy and cheap. Drive beemers and clip coupons. Not a bad thing for a city. A very bad thing for an airline looking for some people to pay walk-up fares of 3x what the seat sales fetched.

Big swinging dcks in the govt pay high fares of course. Public servants wont flinch at last min Lat fares (when it's not their money) are the same ones asking for a $4.25 receipt at the tim hortons to expense. Gross.

IMO YOW needs 3 critical flights : 1) Star alliance to FRA, 2) (keep their) Star alliance to ORD, and 3) OneWorld to MIA.

#1,2 would be 90% + connecting. #3 would have significant O/D and hooking into AA's MIA hub would be game changer

Perfect jet for YOWMIA is the E2. Here's hoping PD somehow ties up w AA and the people of Ottawa drop the fixation on Aeropeso points.

[MountainView]

Air Transat A332 due in from YEG at 17:55 tonight for those interested.

flight info

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by solo748

The reason why YOW doesnt get the service isn't specifically the proximity to YUL/SYR. It's because a so many Ottawa folks would drive to save $. Ottawa is wealthy and cheap. Drive beemers and clip coupons. Not a bad thing for a city. A very bad thing for an airline looking for some people to pay walk-up fares of 3x what the seat sales fetched.

Big swinging dcks in the govt pay high fares of course. Public servants wont flinch at last min Lat fares (when it's not their money) are the same ones asking for a $4.25 receipt at the tim hortons to expense. Gross.

IMO YOW needs 3 critical flights : 1) Star alliance to FRA, 2) (keep their) Star alliance to ORD, and 3) OneWorld to MIA.

#1,2 would be 90% + connecting. #3 would have significant O/D and hooking into AA's MIA hub would be game changer

Perfect jet for YOWMIA is the E2. Here's hoping PD somehow ties up w AA and the people of Ottawa drop the fixation on Aeropeso points.

I think you are right about a lot of this but not sure if it's really the reason. Montreal is a major airport so being close will always have a bigger impact and I really don't think the driving to Montreal crowd is the main cause either. Maybe it is the sheep willing to fly to Miami via Toronto with all the hassles that involves that are to blame.

Conversely, I think Ottawa is also cautious and maybe it is pandemic related but flair doesn't seem to have done as well from Ottawa as some other places. They fly for 1/4 the price on some routes and people will still go Air Canada or Porter.

[fanofYOW]

Love reading all these different opinions. I'm really hoping Porter ties in with AA as well somehow. A lot of their future possible routes are major AA hubs.