Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability - Page 55

Alex Mackinnon · #**1081** Posted **May 31, 2022, 8:56 PM**

Could you imagine how pleasant and animated Robson street would be if it was closed entirely to traffic other than buses?[/QUOTE]

You mean like Granville, which I'd hardly call pleasant or animated?

Migrant_Coconut · #**1082** Posted **May 31, 2022, 9:12 PM**

Depends on which part of Granville. North of Smithe is what you'd expect from a downtown hub... south is kind of a cesspool.

At any rate, we should probably have plans for train service through the West End before we start closing Robson.

chowhou · #**1083** Posted **May 31, 2022, 9:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Could you imagine how pleasant and animated Robson street would be if it was closed entirely to traffic other than buses?

You mean like Granville, which I'd hardly call pleasant or animated?

I hear this talking point all the time, does anyone actually spend time on Granville at all? The half of Granville with vehicle traffic is a shitshow, the half of Granville restricted to bus traffic is much nicer, especially as you go further north.

whatnext · #**1084** Posted **May 31, 2022, 10:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Could you imagine how pleasant and animated Robson street would be if it was closed entirely to traffic other than buses?

You mean like Granville, which I'd hardly call pleasant or animated?[/QUOTE]

Bingo. Pedestrian-only killed Granville. One only has to look at archival pictures from 1930s-1960s to see how much livelier it was when cars were allowed.

whatnext · #**1085** Posted **May 31, 2022, 11:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

I hear this talking point all the time, does anyone actually spend time on Granville at all? The half of Granville with vehicle traffic is a shitshow, the half of Granville restricted to bus traffic is much nicer, especially as you go further north.

That has more to do with a) the city's bizarre bollard parking mess b) placing all the "hard to house" there since Covid.

Migrant_Coconut · #**1086** Posted **May 31, 2022, 11:06 PM**

Blaming Granville on cars or pedestrians is an awfully simplistic interpretation.

Pacific-Davie: All traffic. Okayish, nothing amazing.

Davie-Smithe: All traffic. Cesspool.

Smithe-Robson: No cars. Somewhat clean, somewhat dirty.

Robson-Pender: No cars. Thriving.

Pender-Hastings: No cars. Okay-ish, nothing amazing.

Hastings-Cordova: All traffic. Okay-ish, nothing amazing.

Add a few more storefronts (and actual amenities, not just used clothes, weed and donairs), and there's no reason the entire street can open up again.

chowhou · #**1087** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 3:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Blaming Granville on cars or pedestrians is an awfully simplistic interpretation.

I don't blame Granville south of Smithe on cars; It's just such a ridiculous claim I hear all the time that pedestrianization has killed Granville, when the pedestrianized part of Granville is altogether pretty alright.

SpongeG · #**1088** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 7:02 AM**

they tried to pedestrian it in the 70's? I think with the population and influx of more sophisticated immigrants/residents it would be more appreciated. Vancouver just wasn't ready 40-50 years ago.

FarmerHaight · #**1089** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Could you imagine how pleasant and animated Robson street would be if it was closed entirely to traffic other than buses?

You mean like Granville, which I'd hardly call pleasant or animated?[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean all of Robson, all though a pedestrianized street all the way from BC Place to Stanley Park would be neat and serve as a middle-ground to the seawall.

Specifically, I was thinking the two block stretch from Burrard to Bute. Those sidewalks are incredibly busy due to West Enders going about their daily lives, shoppers browsing the luxury goods stores, and foodies heading to the great restaurants which stretch all the way to Denman.

I think you could make an argument that taking traffic off of Robson from the Square all the way to Denman would hardly make an impact on traffic. The backlanes on either side are just as wide and could easily support deliveries and local traffic. And people passing through the area could use Georgia instead, which they already should be doing. But Burrard to Bute is the busiest stretch and would be most easily justified.

Phil McAvity · #**1090** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Leaving nothing of value visible in your car is just a good habit, no matter what city or neighborhood or country you are in.

My wife an I had our window smashed a couple weeks ago because of some change we left in the cupholder, but instead of blaming a crime wave or the decline of society we blamed ourselves for not being street smart.

I've mentioned this before, but I had a car window smashed in a fenced-off church parking lot in a nice part of Saskatoon. Desperate people are everywhere, so don't give them a reason to pick your car.

Wrong

The person that broke your window was wrong, not you two. When others commit crime do you normally blame yourself? The words guilt-filled narcissist comes to mind

FarmerHaight · #**1091** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 6:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Wrong

The person that broke your window was wrong, not you two. When others commit crime do you normally blame yourself? The words guilt-filled narcissist comes to mind

I am not excusing anyone who commits a crime. However, I recognize that living in any large city will put me and my personal property in close proximity to opportune criminals. If I lived in rural Saskatchewan 100 kilometers from the nearest highway, I would probably leave all sorts of valuables lying in the open and may even leave my home and car doors unlocked. However, I do not live in rural Saskatchewan anymore.

Rather than being stubborn or lazy or careless I choose to instead that some individuals, when they see a laptop or phone or wallet sitting in a parked car, will perform a smash-and-grab. Keeping my car clean and free of any visual motivations is prudent. Thus, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who have things stolen from their vehicles if they left that stuff sitting in the open.

Changing my behaviour in this way is akin to traveling in a foreign country where pickpockets are prevalent. I don't worry about carrying my wallet or phone or keys in my pockets in the downtown eastside, but I would certainly keep all of my valuables in a money belt and wear my backpack on my front in parts of Barcelona.

whatnext · #**1092** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 6:54 PM**

Wow, this is scary. Good thing they're planning to hand out free drugs to people like this. It'll make everything better for sure:

https://twitter.com/AmirsDoingItAll/status/1532057633355550721

Vin · #**1093** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 7:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I am not excusing anyone who commits a crime. However, I recognize that living in any large city will put me and my personal property in close proximity to opportune criminals. If I lived in rural Saskatchewan 100 kilometers from the nearest highway, I would probably leave all sorts of valuables lying in the open and may even leave my home and car doors unlocked. However, I do not live in rural Saskatchewan anymore.

Not exactly true. A lot depends on the law enforcement and judicial system of the city you live in.

If you live in a rural cave, a wild animal can force its way in to drag your kids away. You neighbour may even come and conk your wife on the head and drag her away. Without law and order, as well as appropriate law enforcement, anything can happen NO MATTER where you live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Wrong

The person that broke your window was wrong, not you two. When others commit crime do you normally blame yourself? The words guilt-filled narcissist comes to mind

And authorities will have to hold full responsibility if they are the ones who let the criminal to be free from custody the day before.

Vin · #**1094** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 7:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Wow, this is scary. Good thing they're planning to hand out free drugs to people like this. It'll make everything better for sure:

https://twitter.com/AmirsDoingItAll/status/1532057633355550721

Just the new normal in this City with so many "sympathetic" enablers here. Folks will shrug away the plight of the victims until they themselves become victims due to drug-crazed criminals.

Vin · #**1095** Posted **Jun 1, 2022, 7:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

they tried to pedestrian it in the 70's? I think with the population and influx of more sophisticated immigrants/residents it would be more appreciated. Vancouver just wasn't ready 40-50 years ago.

But the mentality of decision members, including their supporters, is stuck in the 70s. Can't do much in that case.

Klazu · #**1096** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Beyond that very little had changed (for better or for worse) and no one bothered / threatened / attacked me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Wow, this is scary. Good thing they're planning to hand out free drugs to people like this. It'll make everything better for sure:

https://twitter.com/AmirsDoingItAll/status/1532057633355550721

Just another random mass stabbing in broad daylight. Those happen monthly in every major city around the world, right?

Perhaps the perp was just celebrating yesterday's legalization of hard drugs? That will surely make all these attempted manslaughters go away, right?

Those stabbed should blame themselves for just standing there minding their own business and not let the perp kill some people. What a retarded reality we live in.

Changing City · #**1097** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 5:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klazu

Just another random mass stabbing in broad daylight. Those happen monthly in every major city around the world, right?

Perhaps the perp was just celebrating yesterday's legalization of hard drugs? That will surely make all these attempted manslaughters go away, right?

Those stabbed should blame themselves for just standing there minding their own business and not let the perp kill some people. What a retarded reality we live in.

Apparently they're not unknown elsewhere; London (The one in Canada), Numedal, Norway New York, Aachen, Germany Decatur, Los Angeles, Canberra, random recent acts of knife violence in towns and cities across the world.

Edit

The VPD were apparently more successful than police in other jurisdictions: "Before this incident ... a man was seen driving the same vehicle erratically, and he fled from police in several Metro Vancouver cities," [CBC]

There was an incident with some similarities in 2012, when VPD arrested a Burnaby resident wanted for a (fatal) knife attack.

logan5 · #**1098** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 5:30 AM**

And this grizzly knife attack in Sweden only 2 months ago that left 2 women dead. Thankfully this type of mass killing rarely happens in Vancouver.

https://www.dw.com/en/two-killed-in-knife-attack-at-swedish-school-police/a-61207203

Vin · #**1099** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 6:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

And this grizzly knife attack in Sweden only 2 months ago that left 2 women dead. Thankfully this type of mass killing rarely happens in Vancouver.

https://www.dw.com/en/two-killed-in-knife-attack-at-swedish-school-police/a-61207203

They Swedes take care of their own horrors, and we take care of our own. NO need for such a comparison.

The crazed man could easily have killed someone here.

Vin · #**1100** Posted **Jun 2, 2022, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Bingo. Pedestrian-only killed Granville. One only has to look at archival pictures from 1930s-1960s to see how much livelier it was when cars were allowed.

Nope, I think what killed Granville Street are the large number of slums created above the retail spaces, and City policies that do not encourage its renewal. Craziness and all other nice social problems ensued in this neighbourhood, driving away businesses and visitors. Pedestrainized or not, it will never be what it was in the 30s to 60s. Just a sad sad street with hobos and drugs addicts wandering or loitering around.

This is exactly how East Hastings Street at the DTES was created in the first place.

We can target Davie Street next, but unfortunately it does not have too many beautiful higher-density heritage buildings to turn into slums.