Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[s211]

Mods! Help! Please get this thread somewhat back on track.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

Mods! Help! Please get this thread somewhat back on track.

Some people should be smote down, for sure!

Meanwhile, even LA Times, in a city with its own horrendous homeless problem, is taking potshots at us:

VANCOUVER, Canada — In the coastal cold of a Vancouver morning, nine people crowded at the door of the Insite safe injection center, itching for it to open so they could shoot heroin and fentanyl inside.
Around their huddle on this two-block stretch of East Hastings Street, hundreds of people, the majority habitual drug users, were crushed together in tents and chairs, on discarded rugs and under wet tarps. Some were sprawled on the sidewalk, motionless and unconscious. One man repeatedly hurled a hatchet at the pavement.

Open-use drug havens such as San Francisco’s Tenderloin and L.A.'s skid row have become notorious and contentious, but those places have nothing on East Hastings, part of a neighborhood called Downtown Eastside. In every direction, there were needles in arms and butane lighters melting chunks of fentanyl, heroin and meth — the stench of burning chemicals was unavoidable. For many residents and business owners in Vancouver’s historic Chinatown, only a block away, East Hastings means theft, garbage, graffiti and a near-constant blare of sirens....[

....In Vancouver, harm reduction has been long established. The Downtown Eastside is filled with methadone clinics, primary care providers (Canada has socialized medicine and family doctors treat addiction) subsidized housing, shelters and a myriad of aid organizations.

The government agency in charge of health programs in Vancouver and surrounding areas spends at least $350 million annually on substance use and mental health, serving about 1 million people.

Winook Wilannish thinks all that harm reduction has become a harm in itself...She has been in Downtown Eastside since 2008. Before that, she was clean for 13 years, had a house and a career.

Substance abuse has hit hard in Canada’s Indigenous population, as it has among Black and brown communities in the United States. Yet Wilannish believes that all the help offered in this neighborhood holds her down. “There is a fine line between enabling and keeping someone safe,” she said, “and they’ve crossed it a long time ago.”....

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...afe-consumption-sites-addicts-california

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Meanwhile, even LA Times, in a city with its own horrendous homeless problem, is taking potshots at us:

Did you read the title of the article or are you misrepresenting it on purpose?

"Vancouver’s safe drug-use sites are wrenching to see. California should open them anyway"

[Metro-One]

It’s obvious now for some on here the problems with open drug use, vandalism, theft, harassment, etc… will never ever be bad enough to warrant any condemnation or change in direction.

Yes, some of the constant complainers on here do need some more empathy and compassion and have some questionable ideas for reform, but the enablers on here also really need to get their heads out of their pandering a@?es.

Sure, you can always cherry pick some time and place that has been “worse” than now, or some statistic that says everything is rainbows, but from all I have heard from my friends and family who live / frequent downtown (and indeed the city in general) all seem to be experiencing the same story, things are continually getting worse and something needs to be done.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Did you read the title of the article or are you misrepresenting it on purpose?

"Vancouver’s safe drug-use sites are wrenching to see. California should open them anyway"

Not surprising uberwoke California would foolishly think they should follow BC’s lead. The whole west coast is a textbook case of what not to do. As the one woman says, it’s a trap that locks people in addiction.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Not surprising uberwoke California would foolishly think they should follow BC’s lead. The whole west coast is a textbook case of what not to do. As the one woman says, it’s a trap that locks people in addiction.

So... lock em up?

[dreambrother808]

edit

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It’s obvious now for some on here the problems with open drug use, vandalism, theft, harassment, etc… will never ever be bad enough to warrant any condemnation or change in direction.

Yes, some of the constant complainers on here do need some more empathy and compassion and have some questionable ideas for reform, but the enablers on here also really need to get their heads out of their pandering a@?es.

Sure, you can always cherry pick some time and place that has been “worse” than now, or some statistic that says everything is rainbows, but from all I have heard from my friends and family who live / frequent downtown (and indeed the city in general) all seem to be experiencing the same story, things are continually getting worse and something needs to be done.

99% of formers probably agree that there is a problem and that current solutions aren’t working.

The condemnatory, apocalyptic tone (often from people who spend little to no time downtown) and what tactics should be employed to improve the situation are where the conflict arises.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

99% of formers probably agree that there is a problem and that current solutions aren’t working.

The condemnatory, apocalyptic tone (often from people who spend little to no time downtown) and what tactics should be employed to improve the situation are where the conflict arises.

Agree 100% with this post.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You are getting criticized for acting like the smartest guy in the room. I guess that went over your head though.

Yes you're more clever than I am because I failed to grasp the concept of acting smart so I guess I need to sharpen my acting skills to demonstrate my great faculties. What are you even talking about?

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Religion is responsible for the Dark Ages, by suppressing science and coercing people into believing whatever hokum the Catholic church was pushing.

But let's not stop there, how about Islam? Great treatment of women by that group!

Sure, the church has done a few things for the poor and the sick. But on the whole I'd say they are responsible for far more suffering than they have alleviated.

As i've said, unlike the rest of you i've lived in the DTES and saw first hand all the charities that operate there most of which are backed and funded by religion but according to you religion has only done "A few things for the poor and the sick" so what you've done out of either ignorance or bias (I expect bias) is really downplay all their charitable work. The one thing I didn't see living in the DTES were a lot of secular charities

Also, I never said religions are perfect, radical Islam is a particularly odious example but for some reason you expect perfection from these huge world religions with literally billions of followers that go back many centuries, which is unrealistic to say the least. The Catholic Church is not without sin either but it's failings pale in comparison to the aid, direction and comfort they bring so I think on the great ledger the good they've done vastly outweighs their cons but I expect we'll have to agree to disagree about this

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Agree 100% with this post.

Now the teens are behaving like their adult peers. Not a big deal: they are only teens, right? Literally happens everywhere, right?

VPD investigates series of violent incidents involving teens
https://globalnews.ca/video/8825710/vpd-investigates-series-of-violent-incidents-involving-teens

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Now the teens are behaving like their adult peers. Not a big deal: they are only teens, right? Literally happens everywhere, right?

It really does. Sometimes I wonder if you were born yesterday or home schooled.

Check out any place where guns are more readily available. It's far, far worse.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Now the teens are behaving like their adult peers. Not a big deal: they are only teens, right? Literally happens everywhere, right?

Well, in Surrey Burnaby too. And And Victoria.

Apparently it's not new. "These types of incidents were much more common 20 years ago". So before Tik Tok.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Apparently it's not new. "These types of incidents were much more common 20 years ago". So before Tik Tok.

40 years ago even!

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...-days-the-clark-park-gang-ruled-east-van

At a Vancouver telethon in February 1970, Clark Parkers fought with Riley Park gang members live on TV. They were also part of a huge brawl at the Seafest, which was broken up by mounted police. When a large Gastown protest erupted into a riot in August 1971, the Clark Park Gang was front and centre.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It really does. Sometimes I wonder if you were born yesterday or home schooled.

Check out any place where guns are more readily available. It's far, far worse.

In fairness, some cities' gangs have toned it down a bit.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

In fairness, some cities' gangs have toned it down a bit.

That actually looks like fun although i'd probably wear a motorcycle helmet and maybe not do it in traffic

[whatnext]

Don't leave anything valuable in your car around Olympic Village during the day apparently:

Regan Hasegawa
@rhasegawaCTV
How my morning is gong… Happened in under 5 minutes between live hits in the Olympic Village at 6am. Was just a few hundred metres away

https://twitter.com/rhasegawaCTV/status/1529107055096737792

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Don't leave anything valuable in your car around Olympic Village during the day apparently:

Regan Hasegawa
@rhasegawaCTV
How my morning is gong… Happened in under 5 minutes between live hits in the Olympic Village at 6am. Was just a few hundred metres away

https://twitter.com/rhasegawaCTV/status/1529107055096737792

Leaving nothing of value visible in your car is just a good habit, no matter what city or neighborhood or country you are in.

My wife an I had our window smashed a couple weeks ago because of some change we left in the cupholder, but instead of blaming a crime wave or the decline of society we blamed ourselves for not being street smart.

I've mentioned this before, but I had a car window smashed in a fenced-off church parking lot in a nice part of Saskatoon. Desperate people are everywhere, so don't give them a reason to pick your car.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Leaving nothing of value visible in your car is just a good habit, no matter what city or neighborhood or country you are in.

My wife an I had our window smashed a couple weeks ago because of some change we left in the cupholder, but instead of blaming a crime wave or the decline of society we blamed ourselves for not being street smart.

I've mentioned this before, but I had a car window smashed in a fenced-off church parking lot in a nice part of Saskatoon. Desperate people are everywhere, so don't give them a reason to pick your car.

Sorry, while it is good advice to not leave valuables in your car (especially for a long while) excusing someone smashing your window just to grab some change as “your own fault” is pretty ridiculous. You should honestly expect higher standards from society, if not your part of the problem.

To me this is the same general train of thought as blaming a woman for being sexually assaulted simply because she was dressed in skimpy clothes.

Here in Japan I often leave my car running and unlocked with all my work items inside as I stop into a convenience store (as do many here). The odds of those items being stolen is so low, there is no real worry. And the chances of someone smashing the window of a locked car for something is so incredibly low that it isn’t even worth thinking about.

Stop excusing these societal problems, it doesn’t help.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Sorry, while it is good advice to not leave valuables in your car (especially for a long while) excusing someone smashing your window just to grab some change as “your own fault” is pretty ridiculous. You should honestly expect higher standards from society, if not your part of the problem.

To me this is the same general train of thought as blaming a woman for being sexually assaulted simply because she was dressed in skimpy clothes.

Here in Japan I often leave my car running and unlocked with all my work items inside as I stop into a convenience store (as do many here). The odds of those items being stolen is so low, there is no real worry. And the chances of someone smashing the window of a locked car for something is so incredibly low that it isn’t even worth thinking about.

Stop excusing these societal problems, it doesn’t help.

Comparing the reality of one society to another 7,500 km away is hardly relevant, and doesn't help either. Would you leave your car running and unlocked with all your work items inside as you stop into a convenience store in Vancouver? Or Burnaby? Or Surrey?

Whatnext loves to find a negative incident, or someone complaining there were too many people driving round Stanley Park on the first sunny weekend in ages, or a store closing, or an article that shows something wrong with the city, and just leave it there. They troll this site across multiple threads, constantly.

Currently VPD stats show around 650 incidents of 'theft from vehicle' each week across the whole of the city. It's just over half the 1,200 incidents in a typical week in 2019. Part of the problem is that nobody ever tweets "I parked my car in the Olympic Village and nobody broke into it".