Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Police brutality was frowned upon even two decades ago.

Not agreeing what those cops did, but they did not have to resort to beating up crooks if they were properly locked up in jail. Perhaps that's why this City is what it is today. Let's give more rights to drug dealers so they can go harm and murder people for quick illegal profits.

[Vin]

Of course, the sexual predator was released upon arrest by our excellent judicial system so that he can continue to go around groping more victims. We should have sympathy with such a sick person, and who cares about the female victims, right?

Arrest made after four women sexually assaulted near Vancouver SkyTrain station
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/four-women-sexually-assaulted-vancouver-skytrain

[logan5]

A man from Surrey has been arrested after four women reported being sexually assaulted near a busy Vancouver SkyTrain station on Friday, May 13.

These suburban scumbags need to stay out of Vancouver.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Not agreeing what those cops did, but they did not have to resort to beating up crooks if they were properly locked up in jail. Perhaps that's why this City is what it is today. Let's give more rights to drug dealers so they can go harm and murder people for quick illegal profits.

They don't have to resort to beating up crooks EVER. Any kind of police attack squad is just another gang.

Not much the VPD can do about a shortage of judges, overpacked jails or overseas PRC drug lords bringing in extra supply; as it is, plenty of dealers get arrested, three just this February.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

These suburban scumbags need to stay out of Vancouver.

I suspect he has been hanging around malls. They bring out the worst kinds.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

If you use a U-lock through the frame and wheels and don't leave the bike for a long period of time you should feel comfortable.

I have to agree on the power of a good U-lock, as it can actually outmatch a shit-for-brains thief.

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Because bike lanes are incredibly cheap to "build", especially when they are sharrows or painted bike lanes which passes for a bike lane here.

Well, of course they are cheap to build, as they are all reclaimed car infrastructure! Also, those expensive highways move hundreds of times more people (and every single piece of goods being transported) than bike lanes. I don't think investment in our highways is nowhere near proportional to that, which is the problem. I wish it would be even a little closer and realistically there should be a GPS-based cycling tax to pay for all those bike lanes.[/QUOTE]

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Well, of course they are cheap to build, as they are all reclaimed car infrastructure! Also, those expensive highways move hundreds of times more people (and every single piece of goods being transported) than bike lanes. I don't think investment in our highways is nowhere near proportional to that, which is the problem. I wish it would be even a little closer and realistically there should be a GPS-based cycling tax to pay for all those bike lanes.

The vast majority of the streets in Vancouver were created before there were any cars. There were electric trams operating on the streets of Vancouver before there were cars here. There were thousands of bicycles on the streets of Vancouver when there were only a few hundred cars.

There is no 'right to use a car' in any particular location, and the downsides of ICE vehicles (pollution, burning fossil fuels), or all private vehicles including EVs (congestion, making service provision and goods delivery less efficient) means their continued access to every sq. m. of street space is going to continue to decline.

We still tolerate them here in most places, for now. We seem frightened to take on the changes that many other European and North American cities are already embarked on. Most of Robson Street hasn't been closed to traffic. Cars can still drive around Stanley Park. There's still large sections of street where you can occupy the space and park a vehicle for free.

Car drivers don't exclusively pay for the streets they drive on, and they don't have special 'rights' to use them. Everybody pays for street repairs through taxes, so people who neither drive or bike actually pay for them disproportionately. As we continue to densify, and add more people across the lower Mainland, and as there's no collective interest in bulldozing new, or wider streets through existing areas, the need for cleaner, more efficient use of space will continue to see private car use constrained at the expense of other modes. The good news is that if there any private parking lots left, you'll still be able to do doughnuts in the snow (if there's any snow). Although that might be considered by some to be public disorder.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The vast majority of the streets in Vancouver were created before there were any cars. There were electric trams operating on the streets of Vancouver before there were cars here. There were thousands of bicycles on the streets of Vancouver when there were only a few hundred cars.

There is no 'right to use a car' in any particular location, and the downsides of ICE vehicles (pollution, burning fossil fuels), or all private vehicles including EVs (congestion, making service provision and goods delivery less efficient) means their continued access to every sq. m. of street space is going to continue to decline.

We still tolerate them here in most places, for now. We seem frightened to take on the changes that many other European and North American cities are already embarked on. Most of Robson Street hasn't been closed to traffic. Cars can still drive around Stanley Park. There's still large sections of street where you can occupy the space and park a vehicle for free.

Car drivers don't exclusively pay for the streets they drive on, and they don't have special 'rights' to use them. Everybody pays for street repairs through taxes, so people who neither drive or bike actually pay for them disproportionately. As we continue to densify, and add more people across the lower Mainland, and as there's no collective interest in bulldozing new, or wider streets through existing areas, the need for cleaner, more efficient use of space will continue to see private car use constrained at the expense of other modes. The good news is that if there any private parking lots left, you'll still be able to do doughnuts in the snow (if there's any snow). Although that might be considered by some to be public disorder.

Clever how you threw in the attempted slag about EVs. Those spouting the urban planning school jibberish du jour know that EVs will take the wind out of their sanctimonious sails.

Once again, a lecture about how most North American cities are nothing like the medieval patterns of European ones is in order. It’s almost comical how often the irrelevant comparisons to Amsterdam et al get thrown about.

Vancouver would have no problem accommodating more vehicle traffic quickly and easily by eliminating street parking on arterials and not prioritizing meter revenue downtown over vehicle movement.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Clever how you threw in the attempted slag about EVs. Those spouting the urban planning school jibberish du jour know that EVs will take the wind out of their sanctimonious sails.

Once again, a lecture about how most North American cities are nothing like the medieval patterns of European ones is in order. It’s almost comical how often the irrelevant comparisons to Amsterdam et al get thrown about.

Vancouver would have no problem accommodating more vehicle traffic quickly and easily by eliminating street parking on arterials and not prioritizing meter revenue downtown over vehicle movement.

EVs solve some of the pollution problem (but not brake dust), the GHG problem if the electricity is renewable, but not the congestion problem. It's not a slag against EVs, it's math.

North American cities are restricting car access into city centres too. You mentioned Amsterdam, not me.

No politician has yet been willing to eliminate street parking on arterials. I look forward to that being the basis of your platform for election. I guarantee that the outcry would be viewed by many businesses and car drivers as a threat to Vancouver's livability, and might even lead to public disorder.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Also, those expensive highways move hundreds of times more people (and every single piece of goods being transported) than bike lanes.

[/QUOTE]

The ROI on highways is probably justifiable. However, there are also tons of streets in Vancouver that essentially serve as parking lots and driveways for the people that live on them. "No one" (basically six households per day) drives on a cul-de-sac, but we don't have to justify those streets in order to build and maintain them. Why the double standard for bikes?

Originally Posted by whatnext

Once again, a lecture about how most North American cities are nothing like the medieval patterns of European ones is in order. It’s almost comical how often the irrelevant comparisons to Amsterdam et al get thrown about.

The reason Amsterdam is becoming a broken record is because of how many people bike. But look at all of the other cities with historic city centres that are car-light or car-free and instead prioritize pedestrians. Cities like Basel, Munich, Vienna, and Salzburg all have plenty of cars, but the core is mostly pedestrians, public transit, and active transportation. These cities have effective highway links - one is even on the autobahn - but they put people first in their cores, not cars. Why do we love to travel to these cities where not using a car daily is as easy as breathing, yet we make it impossible or very difficult to do so in Canada?

Could you imagine how pleasant and animated Robson street would be if it was closed entirely to traffic other than buses?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Maybe we should move this conversation to a different thread?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Maybe we should move this conversation to a different thread?

What exactly is this thread supposed to be about anyway??? It started off as a place to bitch and complain about the DTES and all those horrible homeless junkies, then morphed into how it's all about the lack of two hetro parent households who go to church, and now we're at cars are the be-all and should be driven everywhere and how dare anyone have other options.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Sheba

What exactly is this thread supposed to be about anyway??? It started off as a place to bitch and complain about the DTES and all those horrible homeless junkies, then morphed into how it's all about the lack of two hetro parent households who go to church, and now we're at cars are the be-all and should be driven everywhere and how dare anyone have other options.

Surprise, a thread without a coherent purpose continues to not have a coherent purpose.

One small correction:

Originally Posted by Changing City

EVs solve some of the pollution problem (but not brake dust)

As far as I know all EVs have regenerative braking, so brake dust is highly mitigated compared to ICE vehicles.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Sheba

What exactly is this thread supposed to be about anyway??? It started off as a place to bitch and complain about the DTES and all those horrible homeless junkies, then morphed into how it's all about the lack of two hetro parent households who go to church, and now we're at cars are the be-all and should be driven everywhere and how dare anyone have other options.

I started the thread because someone complained the “DTES issues” thread was home to a lot of discussion of disorder happening outside the actual DTES. Fair enough. I agree discussing traffic etc probably fits better in other threads.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

One small correction:

As far as I know all EVs have regenerative braking, so brake dust is highly mitigated compared to ICE vehicles.

Maybe not.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Maybe not.

Well, I read the study they cite and they agree with me that brake dust is reduced with EVs, but it seems particulates generated by tire wear are massively increased which are indeed emissions to care about. Guess we can split the difference

See: [LINK]

BEV100 (100 mile range battery electric vehicle) and BEV300 (300 mile range battery electric vehicle) brake wear emissions are much lower compared to gasoline and diesel, but BEV300 tire wear emissions are much greater, making them larger non-exhaust polluters.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I started the thread because someone complained the “DTES issues” thread was home to a lot of discussion of disorder happening outside the actual DTES. Fair enough. I agree discussing traffic etc probably fits better in other threads.

I'm not too concerned about what a thread was started about - more that it's morphed into various random things that have little to nothing to do with that.


Now does anyone have any crime anecdotes about how Vancouver is going to hell worse than the rest of the world? Mine is that when I went to the DTES recently (after not going there at all during the pandemic) it was a little shocking how much of the sidewalk had been taken over by people selling their stuff (during daylight hours - it had been mostly been cleared away at night). Beyond that very little had changed (for better or for worse) and no one bothered / threatened / attacked me.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I suspect he has been hanging around malls. They bring out the worst kinds.

Someone here was pretty quick to visit "The Amazing Brentwood Mall" faster than anyone else during soft opening.

Originally Posted by logan5

These suburban scumbags need to stay out of Vancouver.

Great logic here.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Someone here was pretty quick to visit "The Amazing Brentwood Mall" faster than anyone else during soft opening.

Who me? I went to that weird outdoors store when it opened and haven't been back since.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Maybe not.

Whoever wrote that is a huge moron. I'm at 117K on mine, with the original pads, and next to no wear.

The brake dust accumulation on my rims is basically 0.

The tire wear is a little bit worse though.