Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Yes, there are safe and less safe areas of every city but we aren't talking about lawless favelas.

Some people prefer to live in whatever fantasy supports their worldview, however.

It's worth referring to the title of this thread which is public disorder and the decline of Vancouver's livability (not violent crime). Does anybody really feel public disorder hasn't increased in Vancouver over the last couple years?

Here's some examples I found clearing out my phone.

Starbucks Reserve on Granville & Pender. How much do you think that window cost to replace?

[IMG]window by bcborn, on Flickr[/IMG]

The Bay broken windows on Georgia. Looks like one of the beggars cannily claimed his space on the hoarding:

[IMG]bay by bcborn, on Flickr[/IMG]

The historic Orpheum, tagged at the top of the building. Must have been quite a climb:

[IMG]orpheumgraf by bcborn, on Flickr[/IMG]

[dreambrother808]

Let me repeat myself, again: public disorder has increased AND there are right-wing fear-mongers in this thread who exaggerate it as a talking point for their emotional authoritarian fantasies.

That Starbucks window was broken by kids doing a TikTok trend, btw. Sorry that it’s not a further sign of the apocalypse, although I’m sure many here will still view it that way.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Dont-worry-be-happy and willfully blind attitudes such as yours are a big reason so many cities (especially in the US) have gone to shit in recent years.

And they've gone to shit impressively quickly.

This is such a poor representation of what I actually said. Go back to polluting the Canada threads.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Let me repeat myself, again: public disorder has increased AND there are right-wing fear-mongers in this thread who exaggerate it as a talking point for their emotional authoritarian fantasies.

That Starbucks window was broken by kids doing a TikTok trend, btw. Sorry that it’s not a further sign of the apocalypse, although I’m sure many here will still view it that way.

This exactly.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Next thing we know you'll be justifying chopping their heads off for "blasphemy"! Or at least hinting that they "asked for it"!

No, that’s what you do when it comes to people like Trayvon Martin or George Floyd. Gross.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

https://www.burnabynow.com/opinion/opini...-i-got-spit-on-and-so-im-leaving-5082508

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/37-arrests-almost-...ver-2-days-in-burnaby-rcmp-say-1.5881107

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/woman-shoved-in-un...metrotown-police-investigating-1.5824431

https://globalnews.ca/news/8524957/b-c-metrotown-stabbing-victim-suspect-relationship/

https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/burnaby-metrotown-change-room-voyeur

https://bc-cb.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=2136&languageId=1&contentId=74104

https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/357799/...g-packages-in-his-own-apartment-building

Hey, these examples are all in the Lower Mainland, no? Do you think criminals can't cross a hidden barrier at Boundary Road?

We have a breeding ground for drug addiction and crime here in our own backyard: the City of Vancouver, but we have deniers like yourself who keep sabotaging this thread.

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

This is such a poor representation of what I actually said. Go back to polluting the Canada threads.

Yes, you can stop polluting this thread for a start.

[Vin]

VICTORY!!!

B.C. considering real-time monitoring and forced treatment programs for repeat offenders
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-repeat-offenders-1.6443379

We need this like 10 years ago, and it has taken this long for the government to even think about doing this. I've always maintained the criminal justice system and the apathetic nature of desensitized people in authority of the plight of this City are some of the reasons why we are seeing all the mess we are in today.

I'm glad the government is finally hearing what the public have to say, as they know they are running out of options with their inaction.

Items I've been advocating for:
* Real-time electronic monitoring of individuals identified as chronic offenders who have been released into communities.
* Identifying supports or programs that may help prevent future offences.
* Forced or compulsory treatment programs for mental health and addiction issues.

[Vin]

When it comes to the number of opioid addiction cases, drug overdose death and all the associated problems, we are NUMBER 1 in Canada!

Is this something to be proud of, or even to vehemently deny? People, give your heads a good shake and think.

Evidence synthesis - The opioid crisis in Canada: a national perspective
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6034966/

More than 2,200 British Columbians lost to illicit drugs in 2021
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2022PSSG0010-000188
Quote: "The townships that experienced the highest number of illicit drug toxicity deaths in 2021 were Vancouver, Surrey and Victoria."

It is thus fair to say that Vancouver has the worst problem of the entire nation. The drug crisis brings about more deaths, crimes and anti-social behaviour all around. Therefore, with all these glaringly evident for all to see, I still can't believe so many think that our city is doing alright.

Better pick up the bruised ego and do something about it, than constantly looking dumb and clueless. We are already the laughing stock of the entire world.

[SpongeG]

in one of the Edmonton threads it seems they are having similar issues, some people expressed not wanting to use the LRT cause of problems.

Montreal is warning that there is cocaine laced with bath salts making people go into Psychosis.

[Vin]

Should anyone be surprised at this?

https://biv.com/article/2022/05/unviable-business-climate-prompts-vancity-sports-leave-vancouver
Quote:"Seymour Street's decline into being a magnet for homeless people, drug users and vandals is forcing one of its longest operating businesses to close shop."

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

in one of the Edmonton threads it seems they are having similar issues, some people expressed not wanting to use the LRT cause of problems.

Montreal is warning that there is cocaine laced with bath salts making people go into Psychosis.

It is a nation-wide problem, but none more profound than our city: Vancouver.

I've been suspecting this all along, that mental-health issues and drug addiction go hand in hand. With more potent drugs available nowadays, addicts are turning into criminals: becoming increasingly violent and committing crimes more brazenly. Violent crimes like physical assaults are starting to become more commonplace. This is the reason why so many residents, particularly women and children, do not feel safe walking the streets of downtown alone these days.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Vin

It is a nation-wide problem, but none more profound than our city: Vancouver.

I've been suspecting this all along, that mental-health issues and drug addiction go hand in hand. With more potent drugs available nowadays, addicts are turning into criminals: becoming increasingly violent and committing crimes more brazenly. Violent crimes like physical assaults are starting to become more commonplace. This is the reason why so many residents, particularly women and children, do not feel safe walking the streets of downtown alone these days.

I think they are more brazen cause they know there are no consequences. People do stupid things also for social media, like the toilet smashing trend in Langley a few months ago, or smashing windows cause big business is already too rich and they can afford it type of attitude many people have.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

It is a nation-wide problem, but none more profound than our city: Vancouver.

I've been suspecting this all along, that mental-health issues and drug addiction go hand in hand. With more potent drugs available nowadays, addicts are turning into criminals: becoming increasingly violent and committing crimes more brazenly. Violent crimes like physical assaults are starting to become more commonplace. This is the reason why so many residents, particularly women and children, do not feel safe walking the streets of downtown alone these days.

So you've been 'suspecting this all along' and have completely ignored the multiple comments from a wide variety of commenters here that have explained how the toxicity and nature of the drug supply has changed in the past few years? That's what causes higher levels of psychosis, and irrational behaviour, and that's why the Province is slowly introducing a safer drug supply for some habituated drug users.

It's still not stopping the increase in deaths, because the people who are dying are mostly not habituated users. That's why there have still been no deaths at Insite, or any of the other 36 safe injection facilities across Canada, and over half the illicit drug deaths in BC take place in a private home (according to the report you linked to). And the drug supply is increasingly toxic.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I notice a distinct lack of prisons and forced labour in the proposed solution. Increased monitoring of problem cases is something 99% of the forum is okay with; in the meantime, the majority who aren't problem cases still need more of the same.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hey, these examples are all in the Lower Mainland, no? Do you think criminals can't cross a hidden barrier at Boundary Road?

We have a breeding ground for drug addiction and crime here in our own backyard: the City of Vancouver, but we have deniers like yourself who keep sabotaging this thread.

It's well documented that most of the addicts and homeless in the DTES are from outside the CoV. Like from Burnaby, Langley, Kelowna and Alberta. They come here because this is where the social safety nets are.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's well documented that most of the addicts and homeless in the DTES are from outside the CoV. Like from Burnaby, Langley, Kelowna and Alberta. They come here because this is where the social safety nets are.

Can you point to data on where 'addicts' in the DTES are from outside the City of Vancouver? I'm not sure I've ever seen any data on that.

In terms of the homeless, in 2020 40% of Metro Vancouver homeless were not addicted, and in Vancouver in 2019 it was 35%.

In Metro Vancouver overall in 2020 "70% of those surveyed were in their current community prior to experiencing their current episode of homelessness" and in the City of Vancouver that was 84% of the homeless surveyed. They may have lived somewhere else before they lived in Vancouver, but a sizeable majority had a home in the city before they were made homeless.

In the city's 2019 survey, 80% of homeless had lived in Vancouver for over a year, and 15% had lived in the city the whole of their lives. A report in the Daily Hive showed large proportions of the city's homeless coming from elsewhere in Metro Vancouver, BC, Other provinces, and from outside Canada. The Hive didn't understand that the question was only applicable to a third of the homeless, and asked about where they lived before they moved to Vancouver - not where they lived before they were homeless.

[Migrant_Coconut]

This survey? A 48% response rate's still higher than most election polls. And yeah, 52% of the surveyed homeless in the CoV are from elsewhere in Canada; only 8% outright said they were locals. It's also fair to assume the proportion of DTES problem cases is the same.

They should be free to go wherever they want, and I'm sure there's more than a few homeless Vancouverites who moved to Burnaby - less so, due to lack of local services - but the fact remains that freedom of movement is making Vancouver's problems worse than if everybody stayed in place.

Edit: 80% may have been in Vancouver for more than a year... but 44% say they've been homeless for less than a year (i.e. sans a time machine, at least 24% aren't long-time CoV residents). Exempting a few edge cases who may have moved in and been kicked to the streets within the span of 11 months, I'm going to go ahead and presume "not local."

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

More available affordable housing and the money saved from living in it, for a start.

You didn't answer my question, I asked where the money is going to come from to give people disposable income and provide them homes, because money and housing doesn't just magically appear

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

What are you talking about? Isn't abandonment, single parenthood, racism and addiction to hard drugs supposed to be an unrecoverable downward spiral?

I'm pretty certain Barack Obama was never addicted to hard drugs but if you have evidence to the contrary i'd like to see it. What's more, I never said any of those things lead to, "an unrecoverable downward spiral"

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

This survey? A 48% response rate's still higher than most election polls. And yeah, 52% of the surveyed homeless in the CoV are from elsewhere in Canada; only 8% outright said they were locals. It's also fair to assume the proportion of DTES problem cases is the same.

They should be free to go wherever they want, and I'm sure there's more than a few homeless Vancouverites who moved to Burnaby - less so, due to lack of local services - but the fact remains that freedom of movement is making Vancouver's problems worse than if everybody stayed in place.

Edit: 80% may have been in Vancouver for more than a year... but 44% say they've been homeless for less than a year (i.e. sans a time machine, at least 24% aren't long-time CoV residents). Exempting a few edge cases who may have moved in and been kicked to the streets within the span of 11 months, I'm going to go ahead and presume "not local."

Yes, that survey. Table 3.11 shows that out of 2,223 homeless surveyed, 47% answered the question about where they were living when they became homeless. 201 were living somewhere else (19%) and 839 (81%) were living in Vancouver. So a small proportion of the homeless moved to Vancouver when they became homeless. Maybe they thought it would be easier to find somewhere to live, or they knew somebody here who would put them up. Youth homeless tend to come to Vancouver because there are shelters like Covenant House that don't exist in other municipalities - they would still be counted as homeless. So clearly a small proportion of the homeless moved here, presumably hoping to find housing. But a significant majority were already in Vancouver when they became homeless.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Can you point to data on where 'addicts' in the DTES are from outside the City of Vancouver? I'm not sure I've ever seen any data on that.

In terms of the homeless, in 2020 40% of Metro Vancouver homeless were not addicted, and in Vancouver in 2019 it was 35%.

In Metro Vancouver overall in 2020 "70% of those surveyed were in their current community prior to experiencing their current episode of homelessness" and in the City of Vancouver that was 84% of the homeless surveyed. They may have lived somewhere else before they lived in Vancouver, but a sizeable majority had a home in the city before they were made homeless.

In the city's 2019 survey, 80% of homeless had lived in Vancouver for over a year, and 15% had lived in the city the whole of their lives. A report in the Daily Hive showed large proportions of the city's homeless coming from elsewhere in Metro Vancouver, BC, Other provinces, and from outside Canada. The Hive didn't understand that the question was only applicable to a third of the homeless, and asked about where they lived before they moved to Vancouver - not where they lived before they were homeless.

I've read article after article stating that the majority of the DTES population are from outside of Vancouver. The population of addicts and street people is so disproportionally large compared to other municipalities. I'm surprised you even question this as you seem to be well versed on what goes on in this city.