Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Migrant_Coconut]

Three months from now? Hope it's substantial.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I can't even tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Hilarious.

Come on now, you can't tell me you haven't noticed all the SkyTrain stations in the DTES... /s

[jollyburger]

Teen punched, kneed in head on bus in Surrey
surrey bus attack
Transit police say a teen was attacked on a bus in Surrey on April 1, 2022. (Courtesy: Metro Vancouver Transit Police)
By Denise Wong
Posted May 5, 2022, 12:55PM PDT.Last Updated May 5, 2022, 3:39PM PDT.

Video footage shared by Transit Police shows a man repeatedly punching someone in the head on a Surrey bus
Police say victim bent down to pick up glasses that were knocked off her face, and suspect then kneed her in the head
Incident happened April 1, 2022
Police have shared video footage in the hopes of finding a suspect after a teenager was attacked on a bus in Surrey over a month ago.

The incident happened on April 1, but Metro Vancouver Transit Police only shared details of the incident on Thursday. Police say the 17-year-old boarded a #335 bus en route to the Newton Exchange at about 2 p.m. and sat at the back of the bus.

“At an unknown point in the journey, a man boarded the same bus and began acting erratically while heading to the back of the bus, where he sat near the teen,” reads a statement from Transit Police.

According to police, the suspect eventually stood up and blocked the teen from leaving her seat.

“Then, without any provocation, he allegedly punched her in the head several times, causing her glasses to fly off her face. Despite the teen’s attempts to defend herself, when she bent over to pick up her glasses the suspect allegedly used his knee to strike her in the head.”
The victim reported the incident to the driver and the suspect got off the bus at 152 Street and 84 Avenue.

Police say the victim was not seriously physically hurt.

The suspect is believed to be in his 30s and about 5’8″ tall with a bald head. He was wearing a long, black winter jacket, light blue jeans, and black runners with Velcro closures at the time.

If you have information, you are asked to call Transit Police at 604-515-8300 or text 87.77.77

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/05/05/surrey-bus-attack-teen/

[Phil McAvity]

Getting back to this;

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Having enough disposable income and a secure home in order to not get stuck in the area's poverty trap in the first place? That just might.

Where is that disposable income and home going to come from?

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I must've missed the part where Reagan and Clinton turned to coke as a coping mechanism.

What are you talking about? And what does that have to do with Obama's supposedly "traumatic" childhood?

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And yet Victoria's the 16th least affordable city in the world and vacancy rates are at 1% this year. Guess the boom was either insufficient or mostly condo towers, just like Metro Van.

Imagine what it would be like had the city not approved all the housing

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Where is that disposable income and home going to come from?

What are you talking about? And what does that have to do with Obama's supposedly "traumatic" childhood?

Imagine what it would be like had the city not approved all the housing

More available affordable housing and the money saved from living in it, for a start.

What are you talking about? Isn't abandonment, single parenthood, racism and addiction to hard drugs supposed to be an unrecoverable downward spiral?

Indeed. Also imagine what it'd be like if Victoria'd approved twice as much since 2002; 1-3k new units/year is hardly a "boom."

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

It seems like this is more right-wing fear-mongering, not based in reality.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sweden-crime-no-go-zone-police/

Snopes, are you kidding me?!?

You should tell that to the over 100 police officers injured and 20 police cars being burnt in the violent Easter weekend riots across the country and the Swedish Prime Minister saying that the country has huge parallel societies that are working actively to harm the Swedish society.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Kz4rno/statsministern-samhallet-har-varit-svagt

Snopes... I cannot stop laughing at it even being brought up.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Snopes, are you kidding me?!?

You should tell that to the over 100 police officers injured and 20 police cars being burnt in the violent Easter weekend riots across the country and the Swedish Prime Minister saying that the country has huge parallel societies that are working actively to harm the Swedish society.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Kz4rno/statsministern-samhallet-har-varit-svagt

Snopes... I cannot stop laughing at it even being brought up.

It may be an exaggeration to say that there are areas police literally won't enter, but it's definitely true that there are numerous problematic zones where the police's role is now more tactical as supposed to the smiling constable walking down the street à la Dudley Do-Right.

The thing about parts of cities being out of the control of cops and authorities is definitely a right-wing bogeyman - you hear it about certain suburbs around Paris too.

Interesting though that while arguably nowhere in France or Sweden (or anywhere in Europe, really) is there at this point, things have probably moved a bit in that direction in a number of places since the trope emerged and was just as quickly dismissed and denounced.

Hopefully it doesn't end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Snopes, are you kidding me?!?

You should tell that to the over 100 police officers injured and 20 police cars being burnt in the violent Easter weekend riots across the country and the Swedish Prime Minister saying that the country has huge parallel societies that are working actively to harm the Swedish society.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Kz4rno/statsministern-samhallet-har-varit-svagt

Snopes... I cannot stop laughing at it even being brought up.

Only gullible, far-right, conspiracy zealots have that reaction to Snopes.

Thank you for indicating clearly where you are on the political spectrum, not that that is particularly surprising based on some of your posts here.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It may be an exaggeration to say that there are areas police literally won't enter, but it's definitely true that there are numerous problematic zones where the police's role is now more tactical as supposed to the smiling constable walking down the street à la Dudley Do-Right.

The thing about parts of cities being out of the control of cops and authorities is definitely a right-wing bogeyman - you hear it about certain suburbs around Paris too.

Interesting though that while arguably nowhere in France or Sweden (or anywhere in Europe, really) is there at this point, things have probably moved a bit in that direction in a number of places since the trope emerged and was just as quickly dismissed and denounced.

Hopefully it doesn't end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes, there are safe and less safe areas of every city but we aren't talking about lawless favelas.

Some people prefer to live in whatever fantasy supports their worldview, however.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Yes, there are safe and less safe areas of every city but we aren't talking about lawless favelas.

.

Yet.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Some people prefer to live in whatever fantasy supports their worldview, however.

The fantasyland is where people pretend that things haven't really changed from 1980 to 1990 to 2000 to 2020...

Once things get out of control, it's extremely hard (in some cases impossible) to bring things back to the way they were.

As has been pointed out, the concerning situation in Sweden is quite different socio-demographically from the concerning situation in Vancouver.

In both cases though people are totally correct in remaining vigilant and demanding action from elected officials.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Snopes, are you kidding me?!?

You should tell that to the over 100 police officers injured and 20 police cars being burnt in the violent Easter weekend riots across the country and the Swedish Prime Minister saying that the country has huge parallel societies that are working actively to harm the Swedish society.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Kz4rno/statsministern-samhallet-har-varit-svagt

Snopes... I cannot stop laughing at it even being brought up.

Also right-wing assholes in Sweden shouldn't publicly burn the Quran during Ramadan.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Also right-wing assholes in Sweden shouldn't publicly burn the Quran during Ramadan.

Next thing we know you'll be justifying chopping their heads off for "blasphemy"! Or at least hinting that they "asked for it"!

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In both cases though people are totally correct in remaining vigilant and demanding action from elected officials.

I have no issue with addressing these problems, without navigating to right-wing exaggeration and fear-mongering.

[Acajack]

Dont-worry-be-happy and willfully blind attitudes such as yours are a big reason so many cities (especially in the US) have gone to shit in recent years.

And they've gone to shit impressively quickly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I have no issue with addressing these problems, without navigating to right-wing exaggeration and fear-mongering.

Necessary measures shouldn't be hampered by ideological timidity (of any stripe).

Allowing that is a recipe for failure. Again - as we have seen in many other cities.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Yes, there are safe and less safe areas of every city but we aren't talking about lawless favelas. Some people prefer to live in whatever fantasy supports their worldview, however.

Instead of name-calling or labeling others, and completely avoiding addressing other people's points, you should direct your clearly very informed, real life information to the leftwing zealot Prime Minister of Sweden that is spreading lies about parallel societies in her country that actively work to destroy the social fabric there. I was only directly quoting her through the largest newspaper in the country and she is only referencing heads of police force in the country. You really need to tell them to stop their baseless fear mongering and point them to Snopes for a reality check.

I also love the point of "every city has problems like Vancouver". No, no they don't. Almost all megacities in Asia have NOTHING like Vancouver going on. It is really weird the effect strict law enforcement and strict policies can have on a society. Instead of comparing Vancouver's decline to worst cities like Portland, how about we compare it to the best?

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

IAlmost all megacities in Asia have NOTHING like Vancouver going on.

Some megacities in Asia:
- New Dehli and homelessness "Recent figures on homelessness across the city are hard to come by, but according to India’s 2011 census, approximately 47,000 of the city’s residents were sleeping rough."

- Hong Kong and gang violence "A lawmaker, a father, his teenage son and a woman who was too scared to show her face spoke Wednesday about an attack in a Hong Kong train station by a mob of men armed with sticks and poles."

- Beijing and drug use "China is believed to have more narcotics regulations than any other country in the world, with more than 500 laws and guidelines implemented at various levels of government over different periods of time. These “relentless and draconian countermeasures” have done little to lessen China’s drug problem, according to a report released last year by the Brookings Institute, a Washington, DC-based think-tank. In 2012, the NGO Human Rights Watch included China in its report, Torture in the Name of Treatment. It condemned China, along with several Southeast Asian countries, for “cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment” of drug addicts."

What do you know, the countries many people on this forum fan-boy about treat their addicts poorly and sweep them under the rug so you can't see them.

- Makeshift, unsanitary shelters housing people in Manila "An estimated 35 percent of the metro Manila population live in unstable, poorly constructed shelters in slums. Eleven percent of slum residents live near unsafe areas like railroads and garbage dumps. According to the World Bank, living conditions in slums are worse than in the poorest rural areas. The Mega-Cities Project’s research found that tuberculosis rates were nine times higher than in non-slum areas and that rates of diarrheal disease were two times higher."

- Japan still uses the death penalty, which may explain its orderly appearance "Executions in Japan are shrouded in secrecy, with prisoners typically given only a few hours’ notice and some given no warning at all before their death sentences are carried out. Their families are usually notified about the execution only after it has taken place."

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Instead of name-calling or labeling others, and completely avoiding addressing other people's points,

Pot, meet kettle.

[scryer]

I think that everyone could use a timeout here...

[GenWhy?]

Where's the fun in that?