Calgary International Airport II

I bet they'd fly it if they had a ~70 seat jet. Once their link with AA ended, they now have little feed on the other end to justify it. For now, they're fine to sell you a seat on Delta for YYC-ORD on convoluted routings for which the first leg must be a WestJet flight.

[MalcolmTucker]

Perhaps if/when Calgary has Westjet transpacific it would make sense for feeder routes. But I doubt transatlantic you’d have many enticed from Chicago to backtrack across the continent.

I'll see if anything has changed once AA starts ORD again, but pre-pandemic the number of people flying YYC-ORD-LHR on AA was significant. There were days the #1 onward destination from ORD was LHR.

[tyraty76]

WestJet needs to start YYC-DXB on their 787's and interline with Emirates beyond DXB. Canada's air service agreement with the UAE allows Westjet to start 3x weekly flights. YYC-DEL could have been a more immediate option but due to the situation in Russia/Ukraine flying over Russia for Canadian Airlines is not possible, and thus India flights are not viable for the near future. There's huge demand from YYC - South Asia/Middle East and a lot of these travellers end up flying through the US via the ME3 and NOT through our existing Europe service. Regardless, a 3x weekly YYC-DXB flight on Westjet is not going to kill any YYC-Europe flight.

[Nick]

Good thinking. Are Canadian carriers restricted in their flying to DXB? I thought Emirates was restricted in their flying to Canada, and there might be some reciprocity.

[hollywoodcory]

WS actually requested and obtained slots to fly to DXB in W20 / S21 and W21 but never ended up using them. I imagine we won't see any ULH flying on WS metal until they get more 787s.

They barely have enough to cover the TATL flying schedule they have planned this summer.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Nick

Good thinking. Are Canadian carriers restricted in their flying to DXB? I thought Emirates was restricted in their flying to Canada, and there might be some reciprocity.

Yeah, it is reciprocity.



Each country can operate 6 flights per week, and each airline is limited to 3 flights per week, unless there is an agreement from both parties.

[hollywoodcory]

On another note, Edelweiss has filed in the OAG a triangle routing in June flying ZRH-YYC-YVR-ZRH under flight number WK18.

On the same day the following is still showing as well: WK14/15 ZRH-YYC-ZRH & WK10/11 ZRH-YVR-ZRH.

Only the non-stops are actually open for booking, so I'm wondering if they intend on merging these routes temporarily in June or if this is simply a misfile?

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Yeah, it is reciprocity.



Each country can operate 6 flights per week, and each airline is limited to 3 flights per week, unless there is an agreement from both parties.

It was expanded to 10 flights a week a few years ago.. any 1 airline limited to 5x weekly.

Emirates operates 5x weekly to YYZ for a while now.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

It was expanded to 10 flights a week a few years ago.. any 1 airline limited to 5x weekly.

Emirates operates 5x weekly to YYZ for a while now.

EY is 6x weekly on AUH-YYZ at the moment for some reason. Don't know if they got extra-bilateral authority recently or not.

Therefore U.A.E carriers are currently operating 11x weekly flights to Canada, all of it to YYZ.

[peytol]

If they have been applying for slots it means they are interested in it. Maybe this winter once Europe slows down, they need flights for the 787 all year and this probably makes sense.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by peytol

If they have been applying for slots it means they are interested in it. Maybe this winter once Europe slows down, they need flights for the 787 all year and this probably makes sense.

WS still only has 6 jets. They are waiting on the remaining 4 that are delayed.

I think we would see YYC-CDG go year round and more frequencies to LGW/LHR first before expanding to something like DXB. I would expect other destinations would be higher priority like DEL.

[msmariner]

Do they need to use the 789’s to PVR & CUN in the winter months? Could they not just use 737’s like they used too? That would free up frames to Europe in the winter months.

[hehehe]

Flying to DXB might even be smarter than DEL, if people also use it to connect to Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka and South East Asia.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by tyraty76

YYC-DEL could have been a more immediate option but due to the situation in Russia/Ukraine flying over Russia for Canadian Airlines is not possible, and thus India flights are not viable for the near future.

I wouldn’t say not viable. AC is still operating to DEL from both of its eastern hubs. The 77L is currently flying both YYZ and YUL to DEL, non stop, both ways. The 789 was doing it recently from both as well, but the return flight had a fuel stop in DUB. WS could therefore give it a go from YYZ, if they so wished.

The problem is YYC/YVR-DEL, with the current airspace restrictions, is too long for the 789. Especially in WS’s pax config (22 more seats than AC).

So yeah, your not going to see YYC-DEL on WS metal, that’s for sure. YYC-DXB is doable though.

Originally Posted by msmariner

Do they need to use the 789’s to PVR & CUN in the winter months? Could they not just use 737’s like they used too? That would free up frames to Europe in the winter months.

Yes they 100% can, and this will be the obvious source of the frames if they find themselves in trouble this winter.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by msmariner

Do they need to use the 789’s to PVR & CUN in the winter months? Could they not just use 737’s like they used too? That would free up frames to Europe in the winter months.

Europe from Canada is leisure heavy, so winter traffic goes off a cliff. I'm not sure Westjet has the business traffic to keep anything other the LGW going from YYZ and YYC during the winter months.

Canadian airlines generally have excessive widebody capacity during the winter months, hence the deployment of them to sun destinations during that time.

If perhaps Westjet wants to do winter seasonal Australia or Dubai (connecting traffic onwards via Emirates), perhaps that might work. They're long routes, so they'll either need 2 frames per route for daily service, or have to make them 3-4X weekly routes.

[tyraty76]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

WS still only has 6 jets. They are waiting on the remaining 4 that are delayed.

I think we would see YYC-CDG go year round and more frequencies to LGW/LHR first before expanding to something like DXB. I would expect other destinations would be higher priority like DEL.

WS flying to both LGW and LHR from YYC is a mistake IMO. They should stick to one airport (LHR would be better for both O/D and connections). I understand this is partly due to slot constraints at LHR however. It's important that WS uses their wide bodies for year-round destinations like CDG from YYC if they build Calgary as the main connecting hub, and have the appropriate banks to feed these flights year round.

[tyraty76]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

I wouldn’t say not viable. AC is still operating to DEL from both of its eastern hubs. The 77L is currently flying both YYZ and YUL to DEL, non stop, both ways. The 789 was doing it recently from both as well, but the return flight had a fuel stop in DUB. WS could therefore give it a go from YYZ, if they so wished.

The problem is YYC/YVR-DEL, with the current airspace restrictions, is too long for the 789. Especially in WS’s pax config (22 more seats than AC).

So yeah, your not going to see YYC-DEL on WS metal, that’s for sure. YYC-DXB is doable though.

They could do it from YYZ, but YYZ is already well-served with options to South Asia and the Middle East. The point is if they are trying to build a hub in Calgary, and serve the market in Western Canada they need to start a route like this from YYC. Air Canada is not going to be the first one to start a YYC-DXB or YYC-DEL flight (even though there is more O/D from YYC-DEL than YUL-DEL ) Because of the Russian airspace restrictions YYC-DEL will not happen, but YYC-DXB is doable, and they can build a solid connection bank from Western Canada and parts of the US, boosted by an interline agreement with Emirates.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by tyraty76

WS flying to both LGW and LHR from YYC is a mistake IMO. They should stick to one airport (LHR would be better for both O/D and connections). I understand this is partly due to slot constraints at LHR however. It's important that WS uses their wide bodies for year-round destinations like CDG from YYC if they build Calgary as the main connecting hub, and have the appropriate banks to feed these flights year round.

The problem is they need slots, and they have enough for 4x weekly, and they have to use them but they have more demand to LON then they can serve. I can see them dropping LGW once they get the slots. Until then YYC will get both airports, which is a bonus for us because LHR is already served.

I think the intent was always to have a couple of year-round routes to Europe but the pandemic killed it. LON and CDG make sense.

Russian airspace may reopen by the time they are ready for YYC-DEL.

The widebodies went to CUN and OGG from YYC because the revenue department calculated it would make more money on those routes.