Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Schmoe

I try not to read too much into things like this. Often the shiny new tower attracts tenants that vacate other towers. Wells Fargo Center, for example, is hurting because tenants want to be in the new buildings like 111 Main and 95 State. Overall downtown absorption is probably still fairly anemic, but hopefully will look better as we emerge from the pandemic.

I work downtown and the general vibe in my office is half people want to be back full time that live close, and people who live farther from downtown or have kids (myself and other half) prefer to continue to telework at least a few days a week, maybe go in one or two days tops to break things up. Not sure if this sentiment is felt in other offices. I would imagine it would also depend on the type of business and the demographics of the office workers. I would imagine though that this trend holds. About half want to continue teleworking for economic reasons (takes more time and money to go/leave the office, pick kids up from school etc.), and the other half want to go in everyday (live closer, maybe don’t have kids or earn enough to hire others to pickup kids from school, etc.). Of course the owners and leadership of our companies could require us to go in full time, but with studies that have shown productivity for some has gone up with teleworking and the many jobs that are now offering teleworking I think that would be foolish of a company owner to do. This is all to say I feel there is still a demand for office space from a workers standpoint but I think it’s been cut in half regardless of where we’re at with the pandemic. I’ve mentioned it before, I would have preferred to live closer to downtown but could not afford it. So I moved further away near a trax hub where if need be I can commute in via trax. In my opinion salt lake needs to focus on building more condos and living spaces that can be purchased not just rented, and office space I don’t feel should be the main focus. Things seem to be trending that way already sort of.

[Atlas]

I like the flexibility of being able to work from home but I certainly think there's something lost when you don't go into the office at least sometimes. Granted, this probably varies for different office environments and fields of work. It's also true that not everyone is productive working from home.

Salt Lake City definitely needs to find ways of incentivizing and approving condo developments. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Coachman's project is the only true condo project in the entire city right now (and it wasn't approved by the PC) while we have literally thousands of apartments going up. That's just ridiculous and I don't think the city is doing anything about it right now.

[taboubak]

Originally Posted by Ironweed

Temporary fencing at the West Temple (former Held Properties) site has been taken down. Anyone know if the New York Group sold it? Busted deal?

I would be very surprised if Domain didn't deliver on this one. Mostly considering the fact they just completed a major downtown project. I also hope it just means site prep is imminent.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Atlas

I like the flexibility of being able to work from home but I certainly think there's something lost when you don't go into the office at least sometimes. Granted, this probably varies for different office environments and fields of work. It's also true that not everyone is productive working from home.

Salt Lake City definitely needs to find ways of incentivizing and approving condo developments. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Coachman's project is the only true condo project in the entire city right now (and it wasn't approved by the PC) while we have literally thousands of apartments going up. That's just ridiculous and I don't think the city is doing anything about it right now.

I've bitched about this in the past but Salt Lake's condo market is absolute trash, especially compared to other cities in the region (like Vegas and Phoenix, probably even Denver). Everything is rental and what you can buy is just underwhelming (no hate but every unit I've come across in the American Towers feels like it's made for someone 60 or older).

In fact, much of the condos that are for sale have that old person vibe (probably because an old person lived in 'em when they died). Not bad if you're willing to renovate, I guess, but I don't want to do that.

I've thought about selling my house in SugarHouse and moving into a condo but nothing is appealing and when one that is appealing hits the market, it's gone in about a day or two. So, I am sure demand is there - it's just no one is building condo towers.

And to be honest, renting an apartment in one of these buildings just sounds stupid.

[zurich]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I've bitched about this in the past but Salt Lake's condo market is absolute trash, especially compared to other cities in the region (like Vegas and Phoenix, probably even Denver). Everything is rental and what you can buy is just underwhelming (no hate but every unit I've come across in the American Towers feels like it's made for someone 60 or older).

In fact, much of the condos that are for sale have that old person vibe (probably because an old person lived in 'em when they died). Not bad if you're willing to renovate, I guess, but I don't want to do that.

I've thought about selling my house in SugarHouse and moving into a condo but nothing is appealing and when one that is appealing hits the market, it's gone in about a day or two. So, I am sure demand is there - it's just no one is building condo towers.

And to be honest, renting an apartment in one of these buildings just sounds stupid.

I read this forum daily, but I still don't understand why no developer has built any new condos. In Austin, every single new tower is either mixed use or high end condos - whereas Salt Lake its all apartments. Do our city leaders need to create incentives, or stop approving apartments or something else? It appears every block in downtown is going to be nothing more than cheap 3-4 story stucco, grey / brown apartments, splashed in with a handful of office towers.

[Atlas]

As I understand it, the reasons that condos aren't being built in SLC have to do with market conditions and red tape. For whatever reason, there's a lot of capital out there to finance and purchase apartment buildings right now. In addition, apartment buildings can be sold in a single transaction instead of piece-by-piece and they also produce money for the operator indefinitely instead of being a one-time build-and-sell. Condos also typically have a higher build quality than apartments, so they are inherently more expensive to build.

What is perhaps more frustrating is that developers have commented on r/DevelopmentSLC saying that proposing and building condos in SLC is much more difficult and slow than building apartments. THAT and other zoning reforms are things that the City Council could address if they wanted to. Instead, they seem to kick the can down the road indefinitely on these types of things. We are still waiting for action on height restrictions in the Depot District and ending parking minimums, for example. These outstanding issues haven't even been discussed by the Council in what seems like years.

Another part of this is that the SLC Planning Department is woefully understaffed and can't handle the volume of requests that they've been getting over the last two years.

EDIT: I forgot to say that I absolutely agree with the previous comments. If we want to be a healthy large city in the future, we need more for-sale units. We need people invested in SLC, people who want to be part of the community and feel comfortable with their circumstances long-term. Rentals are fine too and we certainly need them but home ownership needs to be part of the mix.

[UTPlanner]

The city doesn't dictate whether a housing unit will be owned or rented anywhere in the city. They dictate whether the use "multi-family" or "single family" or something in between is a permitted use. You start running into issues with the Fair Housing Act if you do.

The developers that I have worked with in the past have generally stated that the reason that they're not developing condos is because of the difficulty for people that cannot pay cash to get a mortgage for a condo.

https://www.moneyunder30.com/condo-f...g-is-different

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

The city doesn't dictate whether a housing unit will be owned or rented anywhere in the city. They dictate whether the use "multi-family" or "single family" or something in between is a permitted use. You start running into issues with the Fair Housing Act if you do.

Did anyone make this claim?

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

The developers that I have worked with in the past have generally stated that the reason that they're not developing condos is because of the difficulty for people that cannot pay cash to get a mortgage for a condo.

Something tells me this is not an issue in the current market. For example...

Not that this is related to condos specifically but I've been trying to buy a house in the Denver metro for the last couple months and it's a complete nightmare. Cash offers coming in consistently on every property at $100k+ over asking. Properties are listed and under contract within seven days, sometimes within a single day. I'd imagine SLC is experiencing the same thing.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

The city doesn't dictate whether a housing unit will be owned or rented anywhere in the city. They dictate whether the use "multi-family" or "single family" or something in between is a permitted use. You start running into issues with the Fair Housing Act if you do.

The developers that I have worked with in the past have generally stated that the reason that they're not developing condos is because of the difficulty for people that cannot pay cash to get a mortgage for a condo.

https://www.moneyunder30.com/condo-f...g-is-different

Yes and no. Most new condos qualify for conventional financing, just not FHA. HOAs are also a massive litigation magnet and liability. Huge PIA to manage initially too. BUT there should be more condo-townie action for sale. A huge problem is the HUD funny money going around for multifamily. "Affordable housing" is a crisis but Developers usually just take the subsidies as gravy. Even if you aren't doing a LIHTEC deal, HUD refinance deals are a massive subsidy to the most wealthy developers. Artificially low interest rates do strange things and unfortunately we have a lot of "path of least resistance" developers in our market. Good news is we have some big national players here too. May bode well for for sale product.

[Schmoe]

Originally Posted by taboubak

I would be very surprised if Domain didn't deliver on this one. Mostly considering the fact they just completed a major downtown project. I also hope it just means site prep is imminent.

I see they've filed for permit, but there are issues they are working through. The utility permit has had some movement in the past week, but there are still some holdups, apparently. The takeaway is that someone is actively working on it, so that's good.

[mstar]

Just a thought on the current condo market. From what I have been told, the main reason we are not seeing more condo's being built is that the apartment market is much more profitable. That is the main reason that DWUrban started to build a couple of condo projects downtown, but changed course and changed them to apartments.

[tchild2]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I've bitched about this in the past but Salt Lake's condo market is absolute trash, especially compared to other cities in the region (like Vegas and Phoenix, probably even Denver). Everything is rental and what you can buy is just underwhelming (no hate but every unit I've come across in the American Towers feels like it's made for someone 60 or older).

In fact, much of the condos that are for sale have that old person vibe (probably because an old person lived in 'em when they died). Not bad if you're willing to renovate, I guess, but I don't want to do that.

I've thought about selling my house in SugarHouse and moving into a condo but nothing is appealing and when one that is appealing hits the market, it's gone in about a day or two. So, I am sure demand is there - it's just no one is building condo towers.

And to be honest, renting an apartment in one of these buildings just sounds stupid.

I concur...totally. When I see all the photos of the apartments going up around salt lake on this forum, I just see a dead city, filled with rent slaves. Basically, posters here are celebrating Blackrock owning Salt Lake City as if that were to be celebrated and that SLC is some sort of booming metropolis. Rent slaves have no future. A city with rent slaves has little future. A vibrant city are those who can own property, invest in their city and their futures.

[nushiof]

https://www.ksl.com/article/50386215...eater--sort-of

[rockies]

Originally Posted by tchild2

I concur...totally. When I see all the photos of the apartments going up around salt lake on this forum, I just see a dead city, filled with rent slaves. Basically, posters here are celebrating Blackrock owning Salt Lake City as if that were to be celebrated and that SLC is some sort of booming metropolis. Rent slaves have no future. A city with rent slaves has little future. A vibrant city are those who can own property, invest in their city and their futures.

Yes it's all blackrocks fault because the city totally acted with urgency to address regulatory issues and make building easier for small, local developers...

[delts145]

Salt Lake City has big plans for replacing Raging Waters — and you can help shape them

March 27, 2022 - Alixel Cabrera For The Salt Lake Tribune - https://www.sltrib.com/author/acabrera/

A large regional park akin to Liberty Park is envisioned. It could include playgrounds, kayaking, skating, skateboarding, a pool, a beach and grassy areas for festivals.

...Now the site hosts a demolition crew, making room for a spacious regional park (think Liberty Park, sizewise) along the Jordan River to be connected to Glendale Park, South River Park and the Glendale Golf Course.

Since last fall, the city has been working to create a park that aligns with Glendale’s identity. It allocated $3.2 million for the first phase (expected to be ready in fall 2024) and is exploring funding sources for future plans.

“There’s a lot of cultural change happening in Glendale right now and a lot of development and just change in general,” said Turner Bitton, chair of the Glendale Community Council. “I think that a project as big as the Glendale Regional Park can be a way to capture the culture, the identity, and really set a path for the future of Glendale.”

So what should the park contain? Two options have emerged.

One alternative is dubbed “The Great Outdoors,” highlighting the natural assets of the nearby Jordan River. It calls for a community garden, community plaza with concessions, nature playground, ice or roller skating ribbon, trails for biking and hiking, kayak rentals, a naturalistic water feature, riverside boardwalk and a water play feature...

Salt Lake City Public Lands Department) Concept A: "The Great Outdoors." Amenities include 1) Community gardens, 2) Community plaza with concessions, 3) Nature playground, 4) Ice or roller skating ribbon, 5) Trails for biking and hiking, 6) Kayak rentals, 7) Lawn and natural planting, 8) Naturalistic water feature, 9) Riverside boardwalk and 10) Water play feature.

A second option is “The Glendale Green.” It would include a food truck court, playgrounds, ice or roller skating ribbon, climbing and fitness features, an overlook platform and hiking hill, skateboarding features, a lawn for performances and community events, an outdoor pool, enhanced boat dock, riverside beach and a dog park.

(Salt Lake City Public Lands Department) Concept B: "The Glendale Green" would include: 1) Food truck court, 2) Playgrounds, 3) Ice or roller skating ribbon, 4) Climbing features, 5) Fitness features, 6) Overlook platform and hiking hill, 7) Skateboarding features, 8) Lawn for performances and community events, 9) Outdoor pool, 10) Enhanced boat dock, 11) Riverside beach and 12) Dog park.

...“What will likely happen is the final plan will be some combination of those elements,” said Nancy Monteith, senior landscape architect with the city...

...Motuliki and others want to add six to 10 pickleball courts to the wish list. This would be in addition to the eight tennis courts present in Glendale Park, which is expected to connect with the regional park...

.

[ajiuO]

Does anyone know if that ugly wall around temple square is being completely removed. If not. What parts of it will remain… I personally think they should just get rid of the whole thing and and a more open rod iron type of fence.

Also… is space Jesus gone forever or will it be housed in one of the new structures… I’m not personally religious… but space Jesus is like a salt lake icon.

[BretUtah]

Here are a few more pics I took of the Hyatt and Downtown from 99 West.








I think 95 S and Liberty Sky both look good from this angle.



Edison House is coming along nicely

[mstar]

Thanks for the pics BretUtah!

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by mstar

Thanks for the pics BretUtah!

Nice pictures! Any chance of leveling the Shereton and starting over on that block? I think the space between Walter's and the new club could become a nice little park instead of dirt lot. Thoughts?

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Does anyone know if that ugly wall around temple square is being completely removed. If not. What parts of it will remain… I personally think they should just get rid of the whole thing and and a more open rod iron type of fence.

Also… is space Jesus gone forever or will it be housed in one of the new structures… I’m not personally religious… but space Jesus is like a salt lake icon.

The Christus statue will be housed in one of the two new visitor's centers south of the Temple.