Calgary International Airport II

[hehehe]

Does anyone here think WS could get winter slots from LHR to make it year round?

[thenoflyzone]

^

I think they got extremely lucky with these 4x weekly summer slots. If the pandemic hadn't happened, no way would they be getting free slots into LHR !

Currently nothing loaded to LHR for W22. As more airlines return to their pre-pandemic schedules, and more importantly, with IATA and the airport authorities no longer granting waivers for slot usage, it will be hard for WS to get additional slots at LHR.

This being said, Russian airlines aren't flying to LHR anymore. That will free up a lot of slots. Let's see if WS gets lucky one more time !

[thewave46]

I think the near-term Westjet dream plan is:

LHR daily from Calgary and Toronto
AMS daily from Calgary and Toronto(?)
CDG daily from Calgary

Stick it to AC by making business travel on Westjet a serious option and capture enough transit passengers via CDG and AMS to challenge the AC/LH FRA hub. Eating KLM's breakfast is just a perk.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I think the near-term Westjet dream plan is:

LHR daily from Calgary and Toronto
AMS daily from Calgary and Toronto(?)
CDG daily from Calgary

Stick it to AC by making business travel on Westjet a serious option and capture enough transit passengers via CDG and AMS to challenge the AC/LH FRA hub. Eating KLM's breakfast is just a perk.

I certainly see daily LON from YYC/YYZ and year-round (eventually daily) CDG from YYC. If WS/KL codeshare then I guess it's not really a huge deal for WS to fly there themselves.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I think the near-term Westjet dream plan is:

LHR daily from Calgary and Toronto
AMS daily from Calgary and Toronto(?)
CDG daily from Calgary

Stick it to AC by making business travel on Westjet a serious option and capture enough transit passengers via CDG and AMS to challenge the AC/LH FRA hub. Eating KLM's breakfast is just a perk.

YYC is a fortress WS hub as it is. Instead of trying to steal routes from rivals how about net new routes or resume prior ones? We do not want WS to chase out any more carriers.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

YYC is a fortress WS hub as it is. Instead of trying to steal routes from rivals how about net new routes or resume prior ones? We do not want WS to chase out any more carriers.

Oh, I never said it would be good for Calgary.

It would be Westjet's dream to have a bigger fortress hub. Their dream needs good connections to Europe and beyond, especially with business-class fares. That dream involves Westjet metal as they have do something more with 787s than fly them to Hawaii and Cancun during the winter.

So, if KLM is a victim of that dream, so be it from Westjet's point of view. KLM will pick up some of the scraps for onward connections. Air France wasn't starting Calgary anyway. BA has been already chased out by Westjet/AC.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Oh, I never said it would be good for Calgary.

It would be Westjet's dream to have a bigger fortress hub. Their dream needs good connections to Europe and beyond, especially with business-class fares. That dream involves Westjet metal as they have do something more with 787s than fly them to Hawaii and Cancun during the winter.

So, if KLM is a victim of that dream, so be it from Westjet's point of view. KLM will pick up some of the scraps for onward connections. Air France wasn't starting Calgary anyway. BA has been already chased out by Westjet/AC.

How willing would KL be to leave YYC though? Wouldn't CDG work for connections too? (Not doubting your theory)

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by thewave46

So, if KLM is a victim of that dream, so be it from Westjet's point of view. KLM will pick up some of the scraps for onward connections. Air France wasn't starting Calgary anyway. BA has been already chased out by Westjet/AC.

I’d add Condor and Lufthansa as well. Condor pulled out altogether and LH obviously decided YYC wasn’t going to be viable for them. Instead they are sending in Eurowings to have a go. That leaves KLM of course and a couple of weekly flights on Edelweiss.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by hehehe

How willing would KL be to leave YYC though? Wouldn't CDG work for connections too? (Not doubting your theory)

AF isn't going to fly to YYC, so CDG makes more sense to be year round via WS. KL operated to AMS even during the thick of the pandemic in the dead of winter when AC and WS had ceased TATL service. So KL isn't going anywhere.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I’d add Condor and Lufthansa as well. Condor pulled out altogether and LH obviously decided YYC wasn’t going to be viable for them. Instead they are sending in Eurowings to have a go. That leaves KLM of course and a couple of weekly flights on Edelweiss.

LH/AC strategy is similar at YYC and YVR to be honest. LH runs YVR-FRA year round and adds AC YVR-FRA in summer seasonal. AC runs YYC-FRA year round and LH adds in Eurowings Discover via 333 seasonally. Difference is the leisure carrier vs. mainline, frequency and size of aircraft. But they split the airports.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

AF isn't going to fly to YYC, so CDG makes more sense to be year round via WS. KL operated to AMS even during the thick of the pandemic in the dead of winter when AC and WS had ceased TATL service. So KL isn't going anywhere.



LH/AC strategy is similar at YYC and YVR to be honest. LH runs YVR-FRA year round and adds AC YVR-FRA in summer seasonal. AC runs YYC-FRA year round and LH adds in Eurowings Discover via 333 seasonally. Difference is the leisure carrier vs. mainline, frequency and size of aircraft. But they split the airports.

Agreed. What I mean in regard to CDG is that WS could serve connecting traffic through AF's hub there so AMS isn't really necessary for them to operate. And agreed, even with leisure LH still thinks that there is some sort of a market in YYC.

Originally Posted by hehehe

Agreed. What I mean in regard to CDG is that WS could serve connecting traffic through AF's hub there so AMS isn't really necessary for them to operate. And agreed, even with leisure LH still thinks that there is some sort of a market in YYC.

Yeah WS' AMS run when it operated was mostly O&D and KL's run continued to carry the majority of connecting pax through the hub. If WS manage to get back into AMS, it's a tall order with their big 320-seat config. Requires a lot of commitment.

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

KL operated to AMS even during the thick of the pandemic in the dead of winter when AC and WS had ceased TATL service. So KL isn't going anywhere.

100% agree. Obviously nothing is a sure bet in this industry but i'll take something pretty sinister to take KL down on YYC-AMS.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

LH/AC strategy is similar at YYC and YVR to be honest. LH runs YVR-FRA year round and adds AC YVR-FRA in summer seasonal. AC runs YYC-FRA year round and LH adds in Eurowings Discover via 333 seasonally. Difference is the leisure carrier vs. mainline, frequency and size of aircraft. But they split the airports.

And LH added MUC year round from YVR. Pretty impressive. Hopefully that stays like that not seasonal.

[hehehe]

LAS and IAH seem to have been scrapped by AC, at least for the summer. I wonder if WS/UA increase frequency or upgauge aircraft. AC down to what, 3 transborder flights for this summer?

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I’d add Condor and Lufthansa as well. Condor pulled out altogether and LH obviously decided YYC wasn’t going to be viable for them. Instead they are sending in Eurowings to have a go. That leaves KLM of course and a couple of weekly flights on Edelweiss.

Pretty sure it was always planned on Eurowings. The LH flight numbers were temporary placeholders that appeared on all EW announced routes briefly (even YHZ was loaded as LH 343 even though it was announced for EW).

My understanding is that UA nor WS' IAH bookings suggest further capacity is required. 11x weekly was already lots for WS and I wasn't expecting to UA to already be double daily for S22 anyway.

Thursday has 14 flights YYC-YYZ, on 3 airlines... AC/WS/F8.

Peak days in July and August are 27 flights on 5 airlines, AC/WS/TS/F8/Y9

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by hehehe

LAS and IAH seem to have been scrapped by AC, at least for the summer. I wonder if WS/UA increase frequency or upgauge aircraft. AC down to what, 3 transborder flights for this summer?

LAX one daily 223
SFO one daily CR9
EWR one daily 320
I don’t think it’s ever been that low in a summer schedule.
United as well going to be only 6 daily

With AC daily LHR and FRA (as normal) only 5 AC intl flights per day this summer at YYC. Wow

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

LAX one daily 223
SFO one daily CR9
EWR one daily 320
I don’t think it’s ever been that low in a summer schedule.
United as well going to be only 6 daily

With AC daily LHR and FRA (as normal) only 5 AC intl flights per day this summer at YYC. Wow

Crazy it's that low considering oil is back above $100 a barrel like the good old days. Is this because Westjet is so dominant here and is nudging out all others?

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Crazy it's that low considering oil is back above $100 a barrel like the good old days. Is this because Westjet is so dominant here and is nudging out all others?

AC may be making permanent changes to YYC as a hub for TB service. Heck, PHX was CR9 when WS was double daily on 737s and I think the O&D YYC-PHX is higher than YVR. Most of that service has shifted to YVR. YYC got a single CR9 to LAX with YVR 3x daily on 7M8. YYC is AC's smallest hub and just got smaller.

Originally Posted by Denscity

Crazy it's that low considering oil is back above $100 a barrel like the good old days. Is this because Westjet is so dominant here and is nudging out all others?

No, it's because we are still in pandemic recovery and AC's initial transborder sked was too ambitious. Don't forget they had announced BOS for S20, they haven't fully given up on YYC. Losing the IAH RJ is a win for fliers, it's a trash pax experience for the route.

UA has consolidated 2 Express flights for SFO and ORD, making daily flights a poor metric to measure their capacity. The second daily LAX will eventually be back.

Nothing is remotely crazy about this and I do not find myself saying "wow". It's too early to make any definitive statements about their plans moving forward.