[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Not quite right- it was 25-27 Atlantic and the two vacant lots south of it that sold. 29-31 and 33-35 have NOT sold in recent years.

Whoops.

You are quite right.

I did double check the SNB assessment site first, but somehow I had a brain fart before drawing my diagram. I don't know how that happened. I will correct the error. Thanks.

Here is the corrected image (also showing the full extent of the city owned sliver of land):



This is still a significant chunk of land, almost equivalent to a full city block. A large apartment building could be built here quite easily.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Whoops.

You are quite right.

I did double check the SNB assessment site first, but somehow I had a brain fart before drawing my diagram. I don't know how that happened. I will correct the error. Thanks.

Here is the corrected image (also showing the full extent of the city owned sliver of land):



This is still a significant chunk of land, almost equivalent to a full city block. A large apartment building could be built here quite easily.

Hate to throw water on the fire, but it could be small strip mall too.

[Fischbob]

My bets are on a Spitfire Special, or maybe even a self-storage facility

In all seriousness I hope that it ends up being a good quality proposal that makes full use of such a high profile corner.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by homebody

Hate to throw water on the fire, but it could be small strip mall too.

Originally Posted by Fischbob

My bets are on a Spitfire Special, or maybe even a self-storage facility

It won't be a strip mall. Access to this lot from either Vaughan Harvey or Main Street would be horrendous this close to the intersection. The city would probably allow access to the lot from Atlantic Avenue if this development were an apartment building, but certainly not for a retail development.

As for the development being a "Spitfire Special", all bets are off on that one.......

Seriously though, the city has tremendous control over what the nature of this development will be. They own a strip of land along Vaughan Harvey and absolutely nothing will get built here without city approval, not just in terms of zoning rules, but also in terms of the nature and style of the development. Note that the city has issued an RFP on the land that they own. If the city doesn't like the proposal, then they don't have to sell. The city knows that any building on this corner will be in a high profile location and should be as iconic as possible. This is why I have high hopes.

I wonder how much pressure is being put to bear on the owners of the adjacent three homes on the east side of Atlantic Avenue to sell? This would make a big difference to the size of the development. Of course, the homeowners don't have to sell right away. They could sell down the road for a future "phase two" of the development.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It won't be a strip mall. Access to this lot from either Vaughan Harvey or Main Street would be horrendous this close to the intersection. The city would probably allow access to the lot from Atlantic Avenue if this development were an apartment building, but certainly not for a retail development.

As for the development being a "Spitfire Special", all bets are off on that one.......

Seriously though, the city has tremendous control over what the nature of this development will be. They own a strip of land along Vaughan Harvey and absolutely nothing will get built here without city approval, not just in terms of zoning rules, but also in terms of the nature and style of the development. Note that the city has issued an RFP on the land that they own. If the city doesn't like the proposal, then they don't have to sell. The city knows that any building on this corner will be in a high profile location and should be as iconic as possible. This is why I have high hopes.

I wonder how much pressure is being put to bear on the owners of the adjacent three homes on the east side of Atlantic Avenue to sell? This would make a big difference to the size of the development. Of course, the homeowners don't have to sell right away. They could sell down the road for a future "phase two" of the development.

The $500K purchase last month was for 2 vacant lots, and a 4 unit apartment building. I would think that this building was purchased for the land, in order to accommodate the project they have in mind. With the combination of these 3 lots, the muffler shop property and the city owned property, it's a sizable chunk of land. I can't see the developer being interested in the other buildings on that side of Atlantic Avenue. With the city having a measure of control, I really hope that we see a high end project here.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wonder how much pressure is being put to bear on the owners of the adjacent three homes on the east side of Atlantic Avenue to sell? This would make a big difference to the size of the development. Of course, the homeowners don't have to sell right away. They could sell down the road for a future "phase two" of the development.

With the size of this development, I imagine it will be a multi-phase project anyway. I don’t imagine it will be any shorter than 10 storeys. This lot has significant potential.

I also wonder if they could extend Atlantic to Main as a pedestrian street, with the Tide & Boar Brewing being right there, another similar restaurant in the new development might warrant having a pedestrian road here.

I also wonder how much downtown will start to make its way into the west end. I could certainly see more developments along Main Street between Hillcrest and Vaughan Harvey as well as along Vaughan Harvey up to St. George Street.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

With the size of this development, I imagine it will be a multi-phase project anyway. I don’t imagine it will be any shorter than 10 storeys. This lot has significant potential.

I also wonder if they could extend Atlantic to Main as a pedestrian street, with the Tide & Boar Brewing being right there, another similar restaurant in the new development might warrant having a pedestrian road here.

Pedestrianization here would be very easily accomplished, and would be a good idea.

I'm sure whatever project is built here will have ground level retail too (to continue the ground level retail in Tannery Place across the street). I think a ground level restaurant facing Tide & Boar across a pedestrianized plaza at the foot of Atlantic Avenue is a tremendous concept, and these two establishments would have great synergy.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

lso wonder how much downtown will start to make its way into the west end. I could certainly see more developments along Main Street between Hillcrest and Vaughan Harvey as well as along Vaughan Harvey up to St. George Street.

Vaughan Harvey naturally acts as a both mental and physical pedestrian hurdle given its width and speed of vehicles. I wouldn't expect anything from this development that is too different from Junction Urban Village/Tannery Place at best given that Vaughan Harvey does not provide an appealing pedestrian experience.

The only way to make this area better for pedestrians would be to give Vaughan Harvey a road diet and I don't think that's bound to happen any time soon.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Vaughan Harvey naturally acts as a both mental and physical pedestrian hurdle given its width and speed of vehicles. I wouldn't expect anything from this development that is too different from Junction Urban Village/Tannery Place at best given that Vaughan Harvey does not provide an appealing pedestrian experience.

Agreed that Vaughan Harvey does not provide a good pedestrian experience, but there really isn't much you can do about that. It is a stroad at best, but more likely should be considered an arterial.

This doesn't mean that this anticipated project cannot have a more urban face however. It will just have to be projected internally, facing Atlantic Avenue, and towards josh's suggested plaza between this building and the Tide & Boar. This would be somewhat removed from traffic in the area and could be pleasant. People certainly don't seem to mind the outdoor terrace at Tide & Boar right now.

The main entrances for the businesses in Tannery Place all face towards the rear parking lot, not Vaughan Harvey. The do have doors and signage facing Vaughan Harvey too, but most customers use the rear entrances off the parking area. I foresee something similar here as well (although I suspect there will not be much on site parking in this proposed new development). I foresee underground parking for residents, and mostly curbside parking otherwise. I don't imagine there will be that much ground level retail. A restaurant would be nice, perhaps a convenience store and maybe a few services, but that would be about it.

[adamuptownsj]

Since this area is up for discussion, there's a few lots I presume will be developed relatively soon. Does anyone know much about...

05604477 on St George/VH
05870523 behind 12 Millennium
The east half of 06043535 (25 Dominion)
The undeveloped Intercolonial area

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Since this area is up for discussion, there's a few lots I presume will be developed relatively soon. Does anyone know much about...

05604477 on St George/VH
05870523 behind 12 Millennium
The east half of 06043535 (25 Dominion)
The undeveloped Intercolonial area

Behind 12 Millennium is part of the overall vision for this area. I doubt we ever see this come to fruition. It was basically a suburban style business park. The remainder of these lands off of Intercolonial need to be revamped and a new vision brought to the table. 20 years ago this type of development would be fine, but it doesn’t fit with what Moncton is trying to do anymore. It is one is the last remaining vacant pieces of land in the centre of the city and should not be wasted on 4-6 2-4 storey office buildings surrounded by giant parking lots. I would actually love to see someone relocate the offices that are currently in these buildings to downtown, and completely rebuild this site from scratch as a mixed use, primarily residential area.

[Mud]

Noticed 69-71 Gordon was torn down yesterday. Don't know much about it other than it having sold back in January, and the lot to its left a couple of years ago.

[MonctonRad]

Thanks for the heads up.

That was a peculiar building anyway - very suburban in character, but located in the core and very poorly maintained. This is certainly no loss.

This would be an ideal location for a small apartment building, and this would fit in with the substantial redevelopment in the surrounding neighbourhood that has occurred in the last couple of years. We will have to keep an eye on this one.

Welcome to the forums!

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by Mud

Noticed 69-71 Gordon was torn down yesterday. Don't know much about it other than it having sold back in January, and the lot to its left a couple of years ago.

Ideally located across the street from a rooming house or two. Perfect.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Riberview

Ideally located across the street from a rooming house or two. Perfect.

Living in a city means interacting with everyone that lives in that city.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Living in a city means interacting with everyone that lives in that city.

This would actually be a good location for an affordable housing initiative.

[jonny golden]

I wonder if this could be Ashford buying up properties with plans for the construction of a future apartment building? It's been their modus operandi in this neighbourhood.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I wonder if this could be Ashford buying up properties with plans for the construction of a future apartment building? It's been their modus operandi in this neighbourhood.

They generally buy a big block of buildings and tare them down all at once though. It could be them, but I’d place my bets somewhere else.

[MonctonPerson]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I wonder if this could be Ashford buying up properties with plans for the construction of a future apartment building? It's been their modus operandi in this neighbourhood.

It was purchased by an Ashford company for $250,000 in mid-January. The same Ashford company has owned the vacant lot to the west since 2020. Ashford doesn't own the corner lot to the east.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonPerson

It was purchased by an Ashford company for $250,000 in mid-January. The same Ashford company has owned the vacant lot to the west since 2020. Ashford doesn't own the corner lot to the east.

Interesting. One would think that they have plans for the land at some point in the future.