Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[wrendog]

I'm ready for main street Tower to break ground so we can move on from this topic

[Atlas]

Everything inside the red line in this photo (as well as all of the seats) is 100% gone and would have to be reconstructed, both structurally and artistically. The rest would still need restoration. The restoration experts that Mr. Patton keeps bringing up haven't actually been to the theatre and inspected the damage in person, so I don't think you can put a lot of confidence in their estimates. This is also why I don't think they have much of a case in a court of law: their argument boils down to "our experts, who have only looked at pictures, quoted us a different price therefore you are liars."



I heard a rumor that some of these lost elements may still exist in storage somewhere but I have no idea if that's actually true. If it is, maybe I would lament the theatre's loss more than I currently do.

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

My bar saw over 2k on Saturday. Sorry they weren’t on the street for you to look at.

Well that’s wonderful that’s you’re busy on saturdays! I think having people downtown is great!
What I’m saying is that with this large influx in residents, one would THINK you would see these people out and about. There just aren’t the bodies on the street that you would expect with the rise in residents.
I’m wondering where all these people are? Are the numbers inflated? Have speculators purchased these units? What is being seen on the ground do not match what we know from population numbers. Something doesn't pass the sniff test here and it's really quite bizarre. It's the same thing in SugarHell. It's super densely populated.... but where are the people? They aren't out on the streets walking around.

All I'm saying it something doesn't jibe between the number of apartments that are apparently full and the lack of street activity.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Old&New

I disagree. When restored the Utah Pantages Theatre will exceed the Capitol Theater in elegance, beauty, and wow factor. The Pantages was also built as a theater from the ground up, whereas the Capitol Theater auditorium was built inside an already existing shell of a building. Not to downplay the Capitol, it’s beautiful. But a restored Pantages wins this beauty contest.

Hold on a minute Old&New! There are numerous aspects of the Capitol that are not only infinitely more functional but much more beautiful than the Pantages. Not only is the Capitol's streetscape in another class above the original Pantages, but the Capitol's face is among the most beautifully articulated theater facade presentations in the nation. Also, that disgusting corridor that theatergoers must walk down in order to experience the real treasure of the historic Pantages auditorium itself was a design built on the cheap and remains to this day a travesty. That joke of a facade and that corridor are among the major reasons the theater has been left to literally rot, and not gain the public support for its restoration. If it were to be restored to its original configuration, too much of the design is ridiculously inferior when compared to the Capitol or Pioneer. Yes, the theater itself was beautiful but there are numerous points that make it far inferior to the Capitol, and unfortunately for a variety of reasons it would never be able to serve the community at the same level as the Capitol. IMO, if anything the Theater auditorium itself should be rebuilt to its exacting historical specs and at a more suitable location, and at the same time, its many surrounding design flaws by both historic and modern standards should be corrected.

Correcting those original design flaws and the modern physical encroachments of the block that are irreversible must be considered. Personally, I would be delighted if the Wasatch Front and its rapidly expanding population and wealth base would get behind something like rebuilding a Pantages that is superior to its predecessor in design but retains faithfully throughout all of the facility, the theater auditoriums original gilded age articulation. Throw out the old facade and claustrophobic on the cheap corridor and create a foyer worthy of its auditorium. Build a functionally modern stage that will ensure its survival. All of this would have to be accomplished at a new site.

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by Old&New

Restoring the Pantages has been the overwhelming response from the public every time their was a public hearing or open house for public input. A restored Pantages was even in the Salt Lake City Masterplan. There’s still hope for the Pantages, and the voice of the people. .

Once we lose these buildings they are gone forever. I think that exhausting all options to save them before giving them the wrecking ball is prudent. If when the dust settles, it ends up getting leveled I think we will have lost a downtown treasure. But I'm not picking one side or the other: I can understand the views of both sides and quite honestly both have merit. I'm just waiting to see how it all plays out in the end one way or the other. If it takes more time to settle everything, then we know that at the end of it all, our city lost a jewel in its crown but in a legally appropriate way. Even if it runs contrary to the feelings of the majority of the community.

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by delts145

Throw out the old facade and stupid on the cheap corridor and create a foyer worthy of its theater. Build a funtionally modern stage that will ensure its survival. All of this would have to be accomplished at a new site.

I wholly disagree with your take on the corridor. I just went and took the virtual tour through the U Library's website and think that this corridor is reminiscent of what you get walking into the Eccles from Regent. The difference being that the corridor in the Pantages is well appointed and detailed rather than being spartan and modern as at the Eccles.

I suppose it comes down to ones aesthetic tastes?

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by Comrade

And The Sun Trapp is feared to not be returning:

https://www.sltrib.com/artsliving/2022/02/24/sun-trapp-safe-haven/

I can't fathom how anyone would say there's a lot of night in that area - especially with two institutions closing. It's a dead zone. I commented months who that based on the development we'd see, that I feared it becoming a dead zone.

I feel vindicated in that concern.

Just as an update, SunTrapp is not closing.

[Atlas]

In case you are on the market for a $4 million condo in 99 West, there's one on the market. It's hella nice of course but I'll join the chorus of voices pointing to the fact that the urban condo market in SLC is a complete joke lol.

Here's some new eye candy from the ad though:

[EPdesign]

Wow. Great pics!

[EPdesign]

Can you guys make a “save the theater” thread so I can visit it the moment I want to read about it? Thanks

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Everything inside the red line in this photo (as well as all of the seats) is 100% gone and would have to be reconstructed, both structurally and artistically. The rest would still need restoration. The restoration experts that Mr. Patton keeps bringing up haven't actually been to the theatre and inspected the damage in person, so I don't think you can put a lot of confidence in their estimates. This is also why I don't think they have much of a case in a court of law: their argument boils down to "our experts, who have only looked at pictures, quoted us a different price therefore you are liars."



I heard a rumor that some of these lost elements may still exist in storage somewhere but I have no idea if that's actually true. If it is, maybe I would lament the theatre's loss more than I currently do.

Did you not see this post?:

Originally Posted by Old&New

It will be interesting to see what the Utah Supreme Court decides on the first lawsuit. And this second lawsuit could prevent SLC from approving the demolition permit. There’s lots of interest in seeing the Pantages Theatre restored. Jeff Greene, a theater restoration expert, someone who’s very interested in restoring the Utah Pantages Theatre, whose resume includes 3 Pantages theaters, the Chrysler Building, Radio City Music Hall, the Library of Congress, the U.S. Capitol Building, Grace Church and King’s Theatre, estimates the Utah Pantages Theatre would cost 35-40 million, that’s 20-40 million less than what the rda, whose member have no experience in theater restoration, estimated the job to be. The Theatre has a good chance of being listed on the National historic registry. With those tax credits, arts grants, and donations, I’d bet they could be successful in reaching that 30-40 million price tag.

If it’s just a drop in the bucket for Hines, why don’t they actually buy some vacant lot downtown and build there? Maybe the city could give them a big tax break for the trouble. The drive from Micheal Valentine and all those interested in seeing the Pantages Theatre restored is what the city had been hoping for. Well now there’s a big movement where it could actually happen. So, if the city leadership were smart they’d do everything they could to accommodate all parties in achieving their goals. It would be better to have both developments than just one of them. We just need good leadership with creative minds.

Hines could have their stand alone development elsewhere in the city, and then Hines and LaSalle could partner with Zions Bank’s Mr Anderson to build Zions’ new headquarters and shared parking. If you get the right people talking you could get so much more out of the situation. This situation could really use more “YES! AND…”

Also, check this out:




https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/old-warner-bros-theatre-inside-downtown-jewelry-exchange

This is our Utah Pantages Theatre’s twin sister in downtown LA. It was most recently know as the Warner Brother’s Theatre. All missing elements from the Utah Pantages can easily be replicated from this theater!

Here are more photos:


https://losangelestheatres.blogspot.com/2017/09/warner-downtown.html


https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/old-warner-bros-theatre-inside-downtown-jewelry-exchange

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by TMoneySLC

Once we lose these buildings they are gone forever. I think that exhausting all options to save them before giving them the wrecking ball is prudent. If when the dust settles, it ends up getting leveled I think we will have lost a downtown treasure. But I'm not picking one side or the other: I can understand the views of both sides and quite honestly both have merit. I'm just waiting to see how it all plays out in the end one way or the other. If it takes more time to settle everything, then we know that at the end of it all, our city lost a jewel in its crown but in a legally appropriate way. Even if it runs contrary to the feelings of the majority of the community.

From Save the Utah Pantages:

Why has Salt Lake City broken numerous laws and lied to the entire citizenry over the Historic Eligibility of our Utah Pantages?!

Let me introduce you to Exhibit A: Salt Lake City Community Preservation Plan adopted in 2012. This document is 206 pages long!!!

In it, there is a lot of great stuff about how important historic preservation and restoration is to our unique Salt Lake City community, but let's specifically turn our attention to Policy 2.2i which reads:

"Place city-held preservation easements on, or designate as Landmark Sites, City-owned structures that meet the criteria for Landmark Site status prior to the City deposing of these important properties."

Being a Salt Lake City Landmark Site is important as it protects a building from demolition! They have to go before the Historic Landmark Commission to request it and the HLC can deny it for any reason they want. The same HLC that agreed with us btw the Pantages is Nationally Historic…o.

[Atlas]

I vote for a separate thread for the theatre topic

[delts145]

Originally Posted by TMoneySLC

I wholly disagree with your take on the corridor. I just went and took the virtual tour through the U Library's website and think that this corridor is reminiscent of what you get walking into the Eccles from Regent. The difference being that the corridor in the Pantages is well appointed and detailed rather than being spartan and modern as at the Eccles.

I suppose it comes down to ones aesthetic tastes?

Sorry TMoneySLC, I completely but respectfully disagree with you. I've spent a considerable amount of film time in the great theaters of Hollywood/Los Angeles and that corridor is very low on the impressionable pole when it comes to comparison to the spectacular theater foyers of Hollywood's Golden Era. Yes, the auditorium of the SLC Theater was a proud peer. However, the SLC Pantages front and entry hall are not in the same Universe as many of the entries of the historic greats of Los Angeles. You cannot compare the corridor of the SLC Pantages to many of the foyers of L.A.'s great theaters any more than you can compare it to the grand lobby of Salt Lake's historic Hotel Utah/JSB.

[airhero]

I’m with the save the pantages group, mostly because the tower to replace it is very uninspiring. Put bluntly…it’s ugly. The walkway and the park are fine I guess, but if we’re losing what’s left of the theatre for a tower it should be gorgeous and 600+ feet tall. Losing it for the current design is sad.

Unfortunately, the pantages is as good as gone. Michael Valentine is frankly out of his mind, but I suppose only someone who has gone completely bonkers would put this much work into saving the theater at this point. Here’s to the slightest hope he’s successful.

[delts145]

The tower is ugly? I can't even comment on a gaslighting like that.

Yeah, that's a really ugly tower...

[IMG]

.

[airhero]

Voicing my opinion isn’t gaslighting. The two main subsections of the design are boring, particularly the all glass portion, and the way they meet two thirds up the building is a bit awkward. Not a fan of the crown or street level either. The materials look nice at least. The renderers depicted the sunset reflecting off the building beautifully, but that makes it look more attractive than it actually is. For sure it’s not worthy of all this controversy…in my opinion.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by delts145

The tower is ugly? I can't even comment on a gaslighting like that.

Yeah, that's a really ugly tower...

I think it's QUITE UGLY.

I especially HATE the design around the open air deck. I like the deck, not the bulky crap around it and the ribbon going from the deck down the side of the bldg.

And it has terrible street engagement.

[LuisPanzer]

Originally Posted by airhero

I’m with the save the pantages group, mostly because the tower to replace it is very uninspiring. Put bluntly…it’s ugly. The walkway and the park are fine I guess, but if we’re losing what’s left of the theatre for a tower it should be gorgeous and 600+ feet tall. Losing it for the current design is sad.

Unfortunately, the pantages is as good as gone. Michael Valentine is frankly out of his mind, but I suppose only someone who has gone completely bonkers would put this much work into saving the theater at this point. Here’s to the slightest hope he’s successful.

Its Ugly... Have you not seen Liberty Sky Apartments? Now that is Ugly.

[downtownslcresident]

Originally Posted by Old&New

I can’t wait to buy season tickets to the Pantages.

I can’t wait to see you tuck your tail between your legs and quit posting about this damn theater. It’s done dude. Nobody here wants to listen to you anymore. You’re probably the save the pantages guy himself. Get a grip on reality, stalker.