DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Home Depot and RTD should go in together to give the Developer a couple million bucks for a pedestrian bridge. And then you don’t have to waste space replacing Ace.

I'm sure the owners of the ACE Hardware would love the city working with Home Depot to put them out of business. At least at ACE I can get my door re-screened and mower blades sharpened....

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

I'm sure the owners of the ACE Hardware would love the city working with Home Depot to put them out of business. At least at ACE I can get my door re-screened and mower blades sharpened....

I doubt a pedestrian bridge will put Ace out of business, especially since the Home Depot is already very close via car and most people are driving to both through acres of parking.

But it really doesn't make any sense to build a pedestrian bridge to a big box store, talk about wasting money. I'd like to see a ped/bike bridge making a appealing connection between the two sides of RiNo over the tracks and also over to that Zeppelin island. Wouldn't that be fantastic?

[RyanD]

Wasn't part of the plan back in the day to put a pedestrian bridge over Alameda Station given that D4 was going to develop something worthwhile across the tracks? But since there's just a car dealership and gas station on the developable parcels, I think a pedestrian bridge would be pretty worthless.


If this were Cities:Skylines, and a budget is of no concern, I would 100% put a bridge in because I could. But also, this area would be zoned to C-MX-60 or something like that.

[chicago->denver]

Fencing went up around the parking lot at the northeast corner of 13th and Cherokee. Maybe this 16 story residential project is getting started.



https://denverinfill.com/2020/03/16-story-tower-planned-for-1300-cherokee.html

[jhwk]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Wasn't part of the plan back in the day to put a pedestrian bridge over Alameda Station given that D4 was going to develop something worthwhile across the tracks? But since there's just a car dealership and gas station on the developable parcels, I think a pedestrian bridge would be pretty worthless.


If this were Cities:Skylines, and a budget is of no concern, I would 100% put a bridge in because I could. But also, this area would be zoned to C-MX-60 or something like that.

RTD’s Alameda Station plan had a parking garage on the west side of the tracks. That area is pretty heavily contaminated - a big chunk of that area around Home Depot is part of the Denver Radium superfund site.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I saw that fencing too yesterday. However, I don't see anything going on from a permitting side. Does anyone else here have a better clue?

Originally Posted by chicago->denver

Fencing went up around the parking lot at the northeast corner of 13th and Cherokee. Maybe this 16 story residential project is getting started.



https://denverinfill.com/2020/03/16-story-tower-planned-for-1300-cherokee.html

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by chicago->denver

Fencing went up around the parking lot at the northeast corner of 13th and Cherokee. Maybe this 16 story residential project is getting started.

Nothing has moved on this project permit-wise since the concept plan was filed in 2020. They probably put up the fence to keep the druggies out.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

But it really doesn't make any sense to build a pedestrian bridge to a big box store, talk about wasting money. I'd like to see a ped/bike bridge making a appealing connection between the two sides of RiNo over the tracks and also over to that Zeppelin island. Wouldn't that be fantastic?

Wasn't Zeppelin supposed to build a pedestrian bridge over the Platte before Kyle abandoned the city to go live in the mountains? Whatever happened to that project?

[chicago->denver]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Nothing has moved on this project permit-wise since the concept plan was filed in 2020. They probably put up the fence to keep the druggies out.

Bummer - would love to see that hideous parking lot go, especially for a building with some commercial space, which GT seems to lack despite all the people moving into these big box apartments.

I've never actually seen a camp or many people hanging out in that area, but I don't really know what it's like after dark. I gotta say, I hate the term "druggies" - they're really just people. I absolutely understand why the property owner would put up a fence to prevent loitering, though, even if there are no immediate plans to start construction.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Looks like the next LMC apartment is getting ready to go up at 9th and Bannock. There is new fencing and concrete barriers that wasn't there last week. There will soon be three massive apartments under construction over three blocks between 9th and 12th on Bannock.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by chicago->denver

Bummer - would love to see that hideous parking lot go, especially for a building with some commercial space, which GT seems to lack despite all the people moving into these big box apartments.

I've never actually seen a camp or many people hanging out in that area, but I don't really know what it's like after dark. I gotta say, I hate the term "druggies" - they're really just people. I absolutely understand why the property owner would put up a fence to prevent loitering, though, even if there are no immediate plans to start construction.

I often see the comment that an area lacks retail. On GT I wholly disagree with you and think GT has an appropriate amount of retail given it's existing density and the fact that it sits adjacent to Broadway, which has a ton of retail. Folks always want retail on every block and it's just not feasible without a massive concentration of residential and office density (12 hr retail business) and Denver is nowhere close to having that density in any neighborhood IMO. The concentrated retail node model is a much more appropriate one for Denver that was really successful a hundred+ years ago, but unfortunately our zoning has been dictating retail everywhere for the last 20 years. We are oversaturated with retail which is why much of it remains empty over a long term or is in a constant state of turnover.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Speaking of retail: Does anyone know when and if all the Market Station retail units will be filled? My wife and I walked around it last night and maybe 10% of the retail spaces had tenants. Market Station would be like the Denver Pavilions if it was full but I'm curious if the market will support that much retail in a very retail dense area

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Speaking of retail: Does anyone know when and if all the Market Station retail units will be filled? My wife and I walked around it last night and maybe 10% of the retail spaces had tenants. Market Station would be like the Denver Pavilions if it was full but I'm curious if the market will support that much retail in a very retail dense area

I think the issue is simply poor timing. Market Station opened in the depths of the pandemic so it'll take a while for them to lease up. But the big restaurant at the corner of 17th and Market just opened from what I understand, so that's a good sign.

[EngiNerd]

Plus it came online right about the time the Dairy Block did as well, so there is a lot of competition out there for new retail space.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Because we're all building nerds here, I thought you all might enjoy a video of the roof crane being built on top of the new Colorado Convention Center expansion. The company I work for is a part of the engineering for this.

Originally Posted by Curtis Park

Edens building in RiNo
[I]"Edens has proposed multiple five-to-seven story buildings on the block formed by Larimer and Lawrence streets, and 26th and 27th avenues, according to documents submitted to the city.

-----------------

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

That's a beast of a building. At 23 stories, I suppose I was expecting more of a point tower but I'll take it.

I had wondered - guessed if 'stuff' like this might happen in the southern part of the GT.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Meh. Home Depot is for contractors (especially the Santa Fe location) and buying 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 lumber that's as warped as Candi CdeBaca's priorities. Ace is for your weekend to do list items. Both have their place.

Plus Ace people know what they're actually talking about.

Yup, This is all you need to know.


FWIW, getting 800,000 people into and out of the "Peoples Open - The Greatest Show on Grass" over five days is quite the logistical challenge. I met people as far away as Boston-NY-NJ, North Carolina, Minnesota, Houston, California and Vancouver B.C.

[TakeFive]

This was my next question

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Plus it came online right about the time the Dairy Block did as well, so there is a lot of competition out there for new retail space.

How is the Dairy Block doing?

I wouldn't worry much about Market Station retail; it's too good of a location.

Rambling Comment

The Pandemic hangover will continue to reverberate for some time. Retail, especially, has had more than its fair share of ongoing challenges.

Urban Infill is in style

That's one thing I've always agreed with Ken about, the benefits of infill are various. With Denver it's especially the explosion of apartments and the people that fill them. Infill, in this case means they're scattered around as apposed to being primarily in one area.

In the "Valley" downtown Phx is seeing multiple new hi-rise apartment projects which is nice. OTOH, downtown has lost a number of notable office tenants to the shiny new urban infill in Tempe. Chase Bank, for example (which is much larger down here), recently left their long-time digs in downtown for shiny new space in Tempe. The area is what I would call one of those 'protected' areas; you're not likely to see any riff-raff.

It made me wonder if 10 years from now - or as leases roll over - many tenants might choose to move out of downtown Denver? At least in this case, RiNo or the new Cherry Creek development might be as far as they'd choose to go. I would also tend to believe that the LoDo area along with nearby newer buildings and pending new construction might make this area a 'protected' zone also.

[Chucolo]

What's sadder than Market Station (which I do think will be OK) is Writer Square. Yikes! The storefronts on 16th are mostly empty and the walkway from 16th Street to 15th Street is devoid of tenants (other than the restaurant, which has managed to hang in).

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Chucolo

What's sadder than Market Station (which I do think will be OK) is Writer Square. Yikes! The storefronts on 16th are mostly empty and the walkway from 16th Street to 15th Street is devoid of tenants (other than the restaurant, which has managed to hang in).

It's been on the decline for years. Unico needs to do a revaluation of the retail space through the diagonal- is that the best use of the space or should they aim for something different?


My vote is for ground and garden-level housing. Something very affordable.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

It's been on the decline for years. Unico needs to do a revaluation of the retail space through the diagonal- is that the best use of the space or should they aim for something different?


My vote is for ground and garden-level housing. Something very affordable.

When Kroenke bought that I thought maybe he intended to put in a state-of-the-art practice and rehab facilities which many franchises have done. But that was over 5 years ago. Maybe it was a good fit for a 1031 exchange, who knows?

[chicago->denver]

Originally Posted by laniroj

I often see the comment that an area lacks retail. On GT I wholly disagree with you and think GT has an appropriate amount of retail given it's existing density and the fact that it sits adjacent to Broadway, which has a ton of retail. Folks always want retail on every block and it's just not feasible without a massive concentration of residential and office density (12 hr retail business) and Denver is nowhere close to having that density in any neighborhood IMO. The concentrated retail node model is a much more appropriate one for Denver that was really successful a hundred+ years ago, but unfortunately our zoning has been dictating retail everywhere for the last 20 years. We are oversaturated with retail which is why much of it remains empty over a long term or is in a constant state of turnover.

Those are good points. I posted earlier about how I do find GT to be a very walkable neighborhood for coffee, restaurants, bars, and groceries. That comment was more to say that as large scale housing projects continue to go up, I hope to see them include commercial space (it seems most of them plan to) in order to keep up with the population growth. GT seems behind other neighborhoods (Cherry Creek, LoHi, RiNo, etc.) in that regard, but you are correct that the level of commercial space is probably appropriate for the *current* population.