Electric Vehicle Charging Stations in Ottawa-Gatineau

[roger1818]

I received the following email from The Electric Circuit the other day. This only applies to chargers in Quebec, but I still thought it of interest. It isn't quite as good as true per kWh rates, but it is a good compromise. I do like the higher rate once your vehicle has a SOC above 90% when using a higher power station. The included link has more details and clarifications.

Not described in this email, I don't like that, for Level 2 charging, they charge a flat fee in addition to the hourly rate.

Dear members,

We are writing to inform you of an upcoming change.

Under a Québec government regulation issued last December, adjusted prices for 22‑kW, 50‑kW, 100‑kW and 100‑kW+ fast‑charge stations will come into effect on February 1, 2022.

These rate adjustments are being made to support the expansion of the Electric Circuit and improve price equity while continuing to offer you the best possible service.

Below is an overview of the adjustments:

• The rate for 22‑kW fast‑charge stations will now be lower than for 50‑kW stations. The former are suitable for one- to two-hour charging at locations like cinemas and shopping malls, as well as at places (e.g. certain tourist sites) where the power system does not permit the installation of more powerful charging stations.
• The rate applicable to 50‑kW fast‑charge stations will be adjusted for inflation.
• A new dynamic hourly rate based on tiered pricing will apply to charging stations of 100‑kW and above, depending on the amount of power delivered to the vehicle during the entire charge.
• Once the battery goes beyond a 90% charge at a 50‑kW, 100‑kW or 100‑kW+ fast‑charge station, the charging cost for the 0‑to‑50‑kW power tier will double. This measure is aimed at encouraging EV drivers to free up the station once charging is no longer efficient.

Also currently under review are the rates for standard charging stations, which have remained unchanged for many years. This is in the interests of supporting the network’s long-term operability as well as meeting the needs of our partners who own these stations. Details will be released in the coming months.

Full details are available on the Cost of charging page of the Electric Circuit website.

The Electric Circuit team

[eltodesukane]

Why China Is Beating The U.S. In Electric Vehicles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5GGCVIEYts

[SidetrackedSue]

Just noting this here.

The Rideau Centre is closed February 2 - 6.

This includes the parking lot. There is no access to those Superchargers at this time.

https://twitter.com/ctvottawa/status/1488784348115619844

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Why China Is Beating The U.S. In Electric Vehicles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5GGCVIEYts

Here are a few reasons off the top of my head:

• China has 4 times the population,
• There are many more models of EVs available in China than the USA, some of which are extremely affordable (under $10,000).
• In China there is a long waiting list to get a permit to own an ICEV, but you can get a permit for an EV very quickly.
• The charging infrastructure is much more developed in China.
• A lot more first time car buyers who don't have as many preconceived ideas of what a car should be.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Here are a few reasons off the top of my head:

• China has 4 times the population,
• There are many more models of EVs available in China than the USA, some of which are extremely affordable (under $10,000).
• In China there is a long waiting list to get a permit to own an ICEV, but you can get a permit for an EV very quickly.
• The charging infrastructure is much more developed in China.
• A lot more first time car buyers who don't have as many preconceived ideas of what a car should be.

China has a much better developed long distance rail transportation network, so there is a viable alternative for long distance travel.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Why China Is Beating The U.S. In Electric Vehicles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5GGCVIEYts

From this graph it looks like it's EU that's beating everyone in EV adoption, per capita. US and China are roughly on the same level.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

From this graph it looks like it's EU that's beating everyone in EV adoption, per capita. US and China are roughly on the same level.

In terms of dollars spent, yes, but EVs are a lot cheaper in China. Norway is the world leader in terms of percentage of new vehicles sold (67% BEV and 23% PHEV for a total of 90% with a plug in December 2021), which kind of dispels the myth that EVs don't work in cold climates.

[Tesladom]

Norway's adoption is even more staggering in January 2022:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/02/nor...e-90-again-in-january-bevs-at-record-84/


Regarding the graph that was presented, only silly people would publish a graph comparing overall sales and not sales per capita

I remember when CBC used to cover the COVID numbers they use to always talk about how bad it was in Ontario and Quebec versus say PEI... no sh!t when you are comparing overall numbers.
They fail basic stats and maths skills

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

I remember when CBC used to cover the COVID numbers they use to always talk about how bad it was in Ontario and Quebec versus say PEI... no sh!t when you are comparing overall numbers.
They fail basic stats and maths skills

To be fair, Ontario and Quebec did perform worse per capita than PEI.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

To be fair, Ontario and Quebec did perform worse per capita than PEI.

Yeah, bad example they could cut off the bridge access
This is a great stat showing Per Capita infection rates acorss north america (I would not trust Ontario's current numbers based on limited testing tho..)
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronaviru...s-rank-against-american-states-1.5051033

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

In terms of dollars spent, yes, but EVs are a lot cheaper in China. Norway is the world leader in terms of percentage of new vehicles sold (67% BEV and 23% PHEV for a total of 90% with a plug in December 2021), which kind of dispels the myth that EVs don't work in cold climates.

Norway, especially the populated part actually has a very mild winter. Of course all this proves is if you provide enough tax incentives people will buy what you tell them. Ironically it can afford this by selling hydrocarbons (and investing the profits intelligently)

[Acajack]

It depends what one means by mild.

The largest population share by far is in and around Oslo and winters there are similar to southern Ontario.

The second population concentration is more like SW BC in winter.

[roger1818]

It also depends on how you define an incentive. Norway doesn’t offer a rebate like Canada does but instead reduced the amount you pay in tax, licensing and tolls for EVs as well as allowed them to use bus lanes. Some of these ended in 2021 and more will be ending in 2022 since they have passed the tipping point, and people are now afraid to buy a gas car, since they will be difficult to sell.

It has gotten to the point where gas stations are starting to remove their pumps and replacing them with EV chargers in an attempt to remain viable.

[Acajack]

This might be the right place to ask this question:

Anyone know what the chances are of the feds extending the $5000 subsidy for electric vehicles past the current March 31 end of the program?

I would have though they'd have made an announcement by now.

Shopping for my next vehicle so I've been wondering if I'll get 5k from the feds and 8k from Quebec.

Quebec's money looks like a sure thing.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This might be the right place to ask this question:

Anyone know what the chances are of the feds extending the $5000 subsidy for electric vehicles past the current March 31 end of the program?

I would have though they'd have made an announcement by now.

Shopping for my next vehicle so I've been wondering if I'll get 5k from the feds and 8k from Quebec.

Quebec's money looks like a sure thing.

According to this article, they are considering modifying the program to include more expensive electric trucks and SUVs (which currently wouldn’t be eligible). Finding the balance between including the most popular types of vehicles and not looking like they are subsidizing luxury vehicles is tough, and may explain why they haven’t announced it yet.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

According to this article, they are considering modifying the program to include more expensive electric trucks and SUVs (which currently wouldn’t be eligible). Finding the balance between including the most popular types of vehicles and not looking like they are subsidizing luxury vehicles is tough, and may explain why they haven’t announced it yet.

I expect a revamped program in the budget.

I wish governments would use declining rebates to force buyers to commit and carmakers to get competitive. For example, they can set the the max rebate threshold at an MSRP of $75k and then drop the threshold by $5k per year. They can also up the rebate a bit higher to help out in provinces that don't haveb provincial rebates, but then have it diminish every year. For example, make the rebate $7k in 2022, and then go down by $1k per year.

Ultimately, what is needed is to close the gap in purchase price to make the purchase viable. As the number of models on the market increases, and competition goes up, they can and should reduce the subsidy. They need the policy to be dynamic.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

According to this article, they are considering modifying the program to include more expensive electric trucks and SUVs (which currently wouldn’t be eligible). Finding the balance between including the most popular types of vehicles and not looking like they are subsidizing luxury vehicles is tough, and may explain why they haven’t announced it yet.

Yes adding trucks would spread some love to more rural areas but of course most would be purchased by suburban commuters anyway. Even the cheapest vehicles are more than most Canadians spend on a vehicle if you include used. Given what we spent on pandemic support if we are really in a climate crisis shouldn't we spend whatever it takes? Everybody has a price. Most of my driving is road trips so I'd need a substantial discount and probably a ICE tax before I would switch but 90% penetration is probably doable with a $25k subsidy. Back of the envelope that would cost maybe $40 billion a year. Climate change aside it probably saves just from air pollution more lives than $40 billion in Covid spending.

[CanadaGoose]

Prices are high due to supply chain shortages.

Investments to solve the supply chain shortage and transition automakers to electric vehicle assembly lines in Canada should be a higher priority.

I rather see more invested into either assembly lines or electric vehicle fast charging stations across Canada.

But then again, I've been debating on upgrading to a Model Y, an 5k rebate for a 70k car would be nice.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes adding trucks would spread some love to more rural areas but of course most would be purchased by suburban commuters anyway. Even the cheapest vehicles are more than most Canadians spend on a vehicle if you include used.

EVs are more expensive than the average new vehicle. But the average new vehicle in Canada costs over $45k. The average used vehicle price is over $25k. Hardly cheap.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Given what we spent on pandemic support if we are really in a climate crisis shouldn't we spend whatever it takes? Everybody has a price. Most of my driving is road trips so I'd need a substantial discount and probably a ICE tax before I would switch but 90% penetration is probably doable with a $25k subsidy.

We neither need, nor could manage an immediate jump to 90% penetration. Also, EVs already have a lower total cost of ownership compared to gas vehicles. And that difference is only going to grow with larger electrified vehicles like pickup trucks. The most attractive thing about the F-50 Lightning is going to be that it costs $10-24 to fill up (pricing depends on when charging is done at home) compared to $120 for the usual gas F150 fill. So really, the subsidies are about closing the purchase price gap enough to get buyers to seal the deal. That doesn't mean massive subsidies are needed. The price difference between a similar gas/diesel and electric vehicle is $10-15k depending on the model. The subsidy probably need to about half to two thirds of that difference to increase adoption. And that gap will go down over time, so the subsidy should too.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Back of the envelope that would cost maybe $40 billion a year. Climate change aside it probably saves just from air pollution more lives than $40 billion in Covid spending.

If we're spending $40B a year, there's a lot better ways to cut emissions than subsidizing people's cars.

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

EVs are more expensive than the average new vehicle. But the average new vehicle in Canada costs over $45k. The average used vehicle price is over $25k.[/URL] Hardly cheap.

Keep in mind those numbers are boosted quite a bit by trucks and SUVs which there are practically zero EVs of.

The 2019 average price of new cars was $27.8k back when the new vehicle price was $40.4k.

The cheapest EVs are the Bolt at $38k and the Mini at $40k, significantly more expensive than the average new car.