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  #521  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2022, 7:12 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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Originally Posted by NewfBC View Post
Caught-on-camera stabbing at Vancouver Tim Hortons sends man to hospital with serious injuries

"This disturbing incident has all the hallmarks of a random attack that came completely without warning, and we’re increasingly worried about the public’s safety," Sgt. Steve Addison said in a news release.

Police are hoping witnesses of the incident, which happened at about 6:20 a.m. at the Harbour Centre Tim Hortons on West Hastings Street, will help identify the suspect.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/caught-on-camera-s...Tgr2DveoQWkEBU19_6Qd0HEAyTBE6jBqZWKS94Ok

Ron.
This one is insane.

Quote:
The victim, a newcomer to Canada, was waiting in line when the suspect approached from behind and repeatedly stabbed him in the back and shoulder before running out of the store.
Quote:
an incident that re-ignited conversation about public safety in the downtown core in light of data that shows, on average, more than four people a day are victimized in unprovoked stranger assaults.

“We recognize these incidents cause significant anxiety and trepidation in the community,” adds Sergeant Addison. “However, it’s important that we talk about them so we can solve these crimes and people can make informed decisions about their personal safety.”
If this wasn't equally as tragic, as it is was predictable it would almost be laugh worthy at the denial some residents continue to have about the true state of things. To say 4 random attacks a day is terrifying would be an understatement.

Its legitimately difficult for me to articulate how disappointing it is as an immigrant who came here and got to live out his dreams, to see what we are collectively allowing this place to return to.

The chaos will only continue to escalate, and that even hurts to type out on a internet forum.
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  #522  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2022, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by NewfBC View Post
Caught-on-camera stabbing at Vancouver Tim Hortons sends man to hospital with serious injuries

"This disturbing incident has all the hallmarks of a random attack that came completely without warning, and we’re increasingly worried about the public’s safety," Sgt. Steve Addison said in a news release.

Police are hoping witnesses of the incident, which happened at about 6:20 a.m. at the Harbour Centre Tim Hortons on West Hastings Street, will help identify the suspect.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/caught-on-camera-s...Tgr2DveoQWkEBU19_6Qd0HEAyTBE6jBqZWKS94Ok

Ron.
Seriously, just close all the Tim Hortons and 7-11s downtown. They're just magnets for these kind of people.
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  #523  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2022, 8:45 PM
logicbomb logicbomb is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Seriously, just close all the Tim Hortons and 7-11s downtown. They're just magnets for these kind of people.
It's not just Tim Hortons and 7-11's. There was a TikTok video of a brandishing a knife inside Pacific Centre a few months ago. Also heard about a guy going to the Cactus Club on Burrard and just flipping tables and knocking over heat lamps for no reason.

The entire region is screwed.
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  #524  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2022, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
It's not just Tim Hortons and 7-11's. There was a TikTok video of a brandishing a knife inside Pacific Centre a few months ago. Also heard about a guy going to the Cactus Club on Burrard and just flipping tables and knocking over heat lamps for no reason.

The entire region is screwed.
My new rule is avoid anyone wearing the triple crown: hoodie, ballcap and backpack.

I wish I were joking.
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  #525  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2022, 9:15 PM
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  #526  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2022, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
Worse than Tom Campbell?
He was controversial, but at times could be considered effective. Not fond of the proposal to demolish half of historical buildings and Chinatown to build a freeway towards downtown, but he did have a vision, unlike the lame ducks of today.

I like how he made the VPD warriors on horseback charge into a crowd of defiant hippies doing a sit-in smoking pot in the middle of Gastown though.
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  #527  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2022, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I haven't ever defended any criminal behaviour. I have tried to point out to you that we live in a grey world - it's not as simple as you seem to believe. If you'd ever worked with people in a mental institution, or had a friend who was bi-polar, or a colleague who developed schizophrenia you might have a more nuanced understanding.

But there's no evidence you have any interest in understanding the reasons that some people act in an anti-social or aggressive manner without them being high on illicit drugs.

And to be clear, Mezzanine said "there are many reasons for public disorder" and suggested one of them is the legacy from residential schools, and I agree and offered several others.
Your lenient attitude towards the growing problem in this city is what we don't need. When politicians think like you and dismiss the roots of all the issues of today, we know we have a real problem here. You tend to throw out red herrings when those are not even what we are discussing about. For instance, why bring in a schizophenic or bi-polar friend when we are advocating for criminals to be caught and punished? You also can't keep dismissing the anti-social behaviours of individuals here and advocate sympathy for them when these people are causing the suffering of others. You should ask yourself, "Why is your neighbourhood one of the worst in the entire planet? What is it that others have done to succeed when we keep failing?"
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  #528  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Your lenient attitude towards the growing problem in this city is what we don't need. When politicians think like you and dismiss the roots of all the issues of today, we know we have a real problem here. You tend to throw out red herrings when those are not even what we are discussing about. For instance, why bring in a schizophenic or bi-polar friend when we are advocating for criminals to be caught and punished? You also can't keep dismissing the anti-social behaviours of individuals here and advocate sympathy for them when these people are causing the suffering of others. You should ask yourself, "Why is your neighbourhood one of the worst in the entire planet? What is it that others have done to succeed when we keep failing?"
Remember the death of Paul Boyd? In August 2007 police responded to a report of a bus stop assault on Granville Street. When officers arrived, Boyd started fighting with them, swinging a bicycle chain.

Constable Lee Chipperfield shot him eight times, killing him. Paul Boyd had bipolar disorder. He was manic and wasn't taking his medication on the night he was killed, his psychiatrist told a 2010 coroner's inquest. When approached by police, he attacked them - so it was clearly an anti-social behaviour, but there was an explanation of why he behaved that was that had nothing to do with drugs - except he wasn't taking the drugs that helped control his mental illness.

The coroner's jury that reviewed Boyd's death recommended that all officers be provided with intermediate weapons like bean-bag guns and Tasers to deal with distraught people. That still hasn't happened.

People who attack randomly and with no provocation are most likely to be acting on the basis of a psychosis. That can be caused by mental illness, or while under the influence of drugs. Increasingly, street drugs now have synthetic chemical versions of drugs that used to be from natural sources, like cocaine or methamphetamine "For a lot of years methamphetamine was made with a chemical called ephedrine. Ephedrine is a decongestant found in Sudafed pills. It comes from the ephedra plant." Then an artificial version was developed. It's different from the 'natural' version, but the side effects are terrible. "It is accompanied by rapid onset of severe symptoms of schizophrenia, particularly hallucinations. There is incoherent babbling. There’s an extraordinary degree of paranoia. It’s very intense, so you think everybody’s out to get you." So people who have used that sort of drug, usually not knowing or caring that it's not what they were used to, can become mentally ill. They don't have to be still using it to have a psychotic episode - they can have random episodes of paranoia.

Sam Quinones has written a book about these changes. "What happens is people very quickly become homeless. As this form of meth has marched across the country, we have also seen an enormous increase in mental illness and in homelessness, particularly the encampments that we now have in so many towns across the country. I believe the tent encampments are connected intimately with this kind of methamphetamine. Certainly nobody on this form of meth wants to be in a homeless shelter." Read more about how it's affecting the US in The Guardian, if you have any interest in understanding why things are getting worse. Although you don't show any interest in 'understanding' anything, really.
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Last edited by Changing City; Jan 25, 2022 at 12:45 AM.
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  #529  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 3:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
......if you have any interest in understanding why things are getting worse. Although you don't show any interest in 'understanding' anything, really.
I understand why senior citizens like me who have worked all our lives to build this city are now too frightened to leave their homes after dark.

I also understand It's Not My Fault if I'm frightened-see the video as shown above for details.
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  #530  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski View Post
I understand why senior citizens like me who have worked all our lives to build this city are now too frightened to leave their homes after dark.

I also understand It's Not My Fault if I'm frightened-see the video as shown above for details.
Hey, it's okay to be scared. It's also okay to realize that the perception of crime is higher than actual crime; what we're going through is what Seattle, San Fran, Toronto and practically every major city in upper North America is going through, and even those are relatively infrequent.

When we start looking like the Rust Belt, or have gangs walking the street like 70's NY, then we can say we're "one of the worst neighbourhoods on the planet." For now, it's gross hyperbole that indicates a need to be more curious about the world.
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  #531  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 5:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski View Post
I understand why senior citizens like me who have worked all our lives to build this city are now too frightened to leave their homes after dark.

I also understand It's Not My Fault if I'm frightened-see the video as shown above for details.
I'm a senior citizen too - and I live on the edge of the DTES and often walk through it after dark. There are far more people, including strung-out individuals, during the day. I always try to to pay attention, and in many years of walking through the area, and shopping there pretty much every day, I've seen very few violent incidents - although they undoubtedly occur in the area. I've seen arguments, and what look like half-hearted fights, although if a weapon had been produced that could change in an instant. Weirdly, I've found a body - but they had died peacefully of natural causes, sitting on a bench at the side of the street.

I could be wrong, but I hope incidents like the one in the video are relatively rare and I think they can happen literally anywhere where there are people. Those sorts of events seem to me to be random and unpredictable, although if I see someone hitting inanimate objects, or shouting at an invisible person, I generally cross the street or take a different route. On the couple of occasions (in ten+ years) I've come across somebody who is having a psychotic episode and looked like they might harm themselves, or potentially a passer by, I've called 911 and described what's happening, including saying it appears to be a mental health issue. Fortunately I've never seen the police forced to shoot anybody. Perhaps because it was in otherwise quiet residential streets, they were able to diffuse the situation with what seemed to me to be commendable restraint. They treated it as a medical, not a criminal matter.

I've read enough old newspapers, and written enough historical stories to know that there have always been violent incidents in the city, usually related either to illicit substances or mental health problems. Because of the recent increase in random attacks (if there is an increase, as there are only very recent statistics) I've been researching what might be causing that - and the changed nature of street drugs (and their long term impact on brain chemistry) seems to me to be a plausible explanation. That's why I agree with many politicians, the Vancouver chief of police, and most health officials that we need a lot more treatment options, decriminalization of drugs for personal use, a clean drug supply and enough decent housing to ensure we house everyone and provide the necessary supports.

When I lived in an apartment on West Broadway it seemed far more dangerous. The nightclub across the street attracted some unpleasant characters who were far more aggressive at times (possibly helped by steroids or meth, I guess), and the local joke was that the club changed its name after every three random shootings, or if one was fatal. It went through four names in the few years I lived there.
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  #532  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 9:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I'm a senior citizen too - and I live on the edge of the DTES and often walk through it after dark. There are far more people, including strung-out individuals, during the day. I always try to to pay attention, and in many years of walking through the area, and shopping there pretty much every day, I've seen very few violent incidents - although they undoubtedly occur in the area. I've seen arguments, and what look like half-hearted fights, although if a weapon had been produced that could change in an instant. Weirdly, I've found a body - but they had died peacefully of natural causes, sitting on a bench at the side of the street.

I could be wrong, but I hope incidents like the one in the video are relatively rare and I think they can happen literally anywhere where there are people. Those sorts of events seem to me to be random and unpredictable, although if I see someone hitting inanimate objects, or shouting at an invisible person, I generally cross the street or take a different route. On the couple of occasions (in ten+ years) I've come across somebody who is having a psychotic episode and looked like they might harm themselves, or potentially a passer by, I've called 911 and described what's happening, including saying it appears to be a mental health issue. Fortunately I've never seen the police forced to shoot anybody. Perhaps because it was in otherwise quiet residential streets, they were able to diffuse the situation with what seemed to me to be commendable restraint. They treated it as a medical, not a criminal matter.

I've read enough old newspapers, and written enough historical stories to know that there have always been violent incidents in the city, usually related either to illicit substances or mental health problems. Because of the recent increase in random attacks (if there is an increase, as there are only very recent statistics) I've been researching what might be causing that - and the changed nature of street drugs (and their long term impact on brain chemistry) seems to me to be a plausible explanation. That's why I agree with many politicians, the Vancouver chief of police, and most health officials that we need a lot more treatment options, decriminalization of drugs for personal use, a clean drug supply and enough decent housing to ensure we house everyone and provide the necessary supports.

When I lived in an apartment on West Broadway it seemed far more dangerous. The nightclub across the street attracted some unpleasant characters who were far more aggressive at times (possibly helped by steroids or meth, I guess), and the local joke was that the club changed its name after every three random shootings, or if one was fatal. It went through four names in the few years I lived there.
100% agree with all of this
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  #533  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 11:11 AM
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I've lost the plot
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  #534  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 6:47 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I'm a senior citizen too - and I live on the edge of the DTES and often walk through it after dark. There are far more people, including strung-out individuals, during the day. I always try to to pay attention, and in many years of walking through the area, and shopping there pretty much every day, I've seen very few violent incidents - although they undoubtedly occur in the area. I've seen arguments, and what look like half-hearted fights, although if a weapon had been produced that could change in an instant. Weirdly, I've found a body - but they had died peacefully of natural causes, sitting on a bench at the side of the street.

I could be wrong, but I hope incidents like the one in the video are relatively rare and I think they can happen literally anywhere where there are people. Those sorts of events seem to me to be random and unpredictable, although if I see someone hitting inanimate objects, or shouting at an invisible person, I generally cross the street or take a different route. On the couple of occasions (in ten+ years) I've come across somebody who is having a psychotic episode and looked like they might harm themselves, or potentially a passer by, I've called 911 and described what's happening, including saying it appears to be a mental health issue. Fortunately I've never seen the police forced to shoot anybody. Perhaps because it was in otherwise quiet residential streets, they were able to diffuse the situation with what seemed to me to be commendable restraint. They treated it as a medical, not a criminal matter.

I've read enough old newspapers, and written enough historical stories to know that there have always been violent incidents in the city, usually related either to illicit substances or mental health problems. Because of the recent increase in random attacks (if there is an increase, as there are only very recent statistics) I've been researching what might be causing that - and the changed nature of street drugs (and their long term impact on brain chemistry) seems to me to be a plausible explanation. That's why I agree with many politicians, the Vancouver chief of police, and most health officials that we need a lot more treatment options, decriminalization of drugs for personal use, a clean drug supply and enough decent housing to ensure we house everyone and provide the necessary supports.

When I lived in an apartment on West Broadway it seemed far more dangerous. The nightclub across the street attracted some unpleasant characters who were far more aggressive at times (possibly helped by steroids or meth, I guess), and the local joke was that the club changed its name after every three random shootings, or if one was fatal. It went through four names in the few years I lived there.
Yes to all of this.

It's easy to overreact to one shocking incident. Give me statistics and proof, not melodramatic opinions.
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  #535  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 7:57 PM
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https://vpd.ca/news/2022/01/25/suspect-charged-after-senior-robbed-in-library-bathroom/

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Vancouver – A man who allegedly robbed a senior and assaulted security guards at the Vancouver Public Library has been charged, following a Vancouver Police investigation.

VPD arrested the suspect Friday, after he allegedly kicked open a stall door and stole a laptop from a 74-year-old man, who was using the lower-level washroom inside the library. When two security guards tried to stop the suspect from leaving, he allegedly pulled a weapon and fled.

The suspect tried to run from police, but was tracked down near the library and arrested following a foot chase.

Nobody was injured, and the suspect was taken to jail.

A 29-year-old man with no fixed address has been charged with assault with a weapon.


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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
Yes to all of this.

It's easy to overreact to one shocking incident. Give me statistics and proof, not melodramatic opinions.
Statistics and proof is kind of hard to come by given the fact that many people are just choosing not to report mild assaults and crime.
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  #536  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
Statistics and proof is kind of hard to come by given the fact that many people are just choosing not to report mild assaults and crime.
And they were choosing to report them before? What proof do you have that reporting has decreased over time? What proof do you have that your conjecture is based in fact rather than conjecture and anecdote?
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  #537  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 11:14 PM
logicbomb logicbomb is offline
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
And they were choosing to report them before? What proof do you have that reporting has decreased over time? What proof do you have that your conjecture is based in fact rather than conjecture and anecdote?
You know just well that we don't have these statistics and all levels of government are perfectly content with not collecting data that may alarm the general public.

It's the same strategy that the BC Government and PHA took with COVID. Testing less and now saying we are on the downward trajectory despite a huge gap in data.

Ever try calling a non-emergency line nowadays to report a crime? Tell me how that goes.
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  #538  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 11:27 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
And they were choosing to report them before? What proof do you have that reporting has decreased over time? What proof do you have that your conjecture is based in fact rather than conjecture and anecdote?


I ask you to remember January 2022 when you were this adamant asking for stats.

Folks like yourself need a mountain of backwards looking data to convince yourselves of what's happening in front of your eyes.

But to amuse you;

Quote:
Police Chief Adam Palmer told the Vancouver Police Board in October that random assaults are at a level that he has not seen in his policing career.

At the time, Palmer said police tracked 1,700 such incidents, or roughly four per day, between Sept. 1, 2020 and Aug. 31, 2021. Of those, 47 per cent involved a knife or some type of weapon, he said.
Quote:
I’ve been a police officer in this city for 34 years and I’ve never heard of such a thing before,” the chief said, adding that 28 per cent of the suspects arrested were living with some form of mental illness.
Quote:
Also of concern, he continued, was the increase in shoplifters resorting to violence when approached by staff, customers or police. The number of such incidents, as of the October police board meeting, was 844 — a 43 per cent increase over last year.
Quote:
Reporting of crime by citizens for petty or minor crimes is also going unreported, the chief said.

"When they do call us, and we do investigate a crime, they say this has happened four times before and I've never called you, but this time was serious enough that I did call you," Palmer said.
Pretty sure the police chief is making it up though, makes him look good or something? Right?

Last edited by rofina; Jan 25, 2022 at 11:39 PM.
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  #539  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 11:47 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by rofina View Post


I ask you to remember January 2022 when you were this adamant asking for stats.

Folks like yourself need a mountain of backwards looking data to convince yourselves of what's happening in front of your eyes.

But to amuse you;

Pretty sure the police chief is making it up though, makes him look good or something? Right?
I can accept statistics. You should also link to articles rather than just posting quotes though.

I have never said that things aren't worse. Just that it's not as bad as the melodramatic posters here often make it out to be, especially when it comes to the kinds of false solutions they post to deal with the problem.
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  #540  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 12:18 AM
rofina rofina is offline
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
I can accept statistics. You should also link to articles rather than just posting quotes though.
Asking for statistics is backwards looking, its quite literally useless in preventing suffering and misery. I don't mean this in a flippant way - but as a Vancouverite, go out into the community and see what's happening. Anyone without rose colored glasses can see the massive scale of negative change.

Link to article quoted;

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local...wart-vancouver-police-department-4977696


Quote:
I have never said that things aren't worse. Just that it's not as bad as the melodramatic posters here often make it out to be, especially when it comes to the kinds of false solutions they post to deal with the problem.
2 separate points there I would like to address.

1. Not as bad. This one really gets me. Ill speak for myself - but I have been advocating action on these issues since 2018, not just online but in the real world too. I think it is that bad, and it has been clearly trending in this direction for years. My frustration stems from the fact that again, since long before 2018 things have been coming off the rails. And yet 4 years later many folks are still on the "not that bad train." The central point is; we have policies and attitudes in place that are ensuring the trend we are on continues. Its really disheartening to be "right" 4 years ago, and its going to be even more disheartening to see how bad it is in 2026 if nothing changes.

2. False solutions. People clamor to false solutions when they feel they have been abandoned. This is essentially populism, and I have also been writing about this for years. The ineptitude of civic leaders and the scope of the problem is going to make simple fixes a lot more popular in the coming years. The problem with simple fixes is that they are likely going to make the suffering even worse. Folks that think things are same as they have been in yesteryear, that ignore the plight of business owners, and communities at large, are actually major contributors to the appeal of populism. Now is not the time to deny that the issues are escalating out of control, now is the time for meaningful positive action before its too late to stop populist solutions that will cause damage. This is particularly why I hold the Pivot Society types of the world especially accountable for the misery they are producing, and will produce in the future.
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