829 Carling Ave | 166m | 50f | Approved

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

I was curious, so I looked it up. According to this, it's 42% of households without a car in the central city, 16% in the city as a whole. 48% of households with incomes under $30,000 don't own a car. Not insignificant numbers.

https://www.ottawainsights.ca/themes/environment-and-sustainability/transportation/

That's all households. I asked ow many households "own their home, but don't own a car?" I suspect that the households with incomes under $30,000 likely don't own their home, given the up front costs involved in purchasing a home.

I ask it that way because it was suggested that these will be condos, not rental apartments. Now it is true that investors might buy the condos for the purpose of renting them out, but I am not sure if that would be the majority of units, and if it is, why not rent out the entire building.

[ponyboycurtis]

I feel like I'm inclined to be against the parking podium mostly because of it's location at the corner of Dow's Lake. What I am seeing so far in the rendering seems a bit lackluster for such a prominent location. If it was deeper into Champagne ave. I would care much less.

Come back with a better podium design.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I ask it that way because it was suggested that these will be condos, not rental apartments. Now it is true that investors might buy the condos for the purpose of renting them out, but I am not sure if that would be the majority of units, and if it is, why not rent out the entire building.

The market for an individual to rent out a unit is probably much harder now that developers are building new rental buildings. Five, ten years ago, individuals were competing were competing with 30+ year old buildings.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That's all households. I asked ow many households "own their home, but don't own a car?" I suspect that the households with incomes under $30,000 likely don't own their home, given the up front costs involved in purchasing a home.

I ask it that way because it was suggested that these will be condos, not rental apartments. Now it is true that investors might buy the condos for the purpose of renting them out, but I am not sure if that would be the majority of units, and if it is, why not rent out the entire building.

Yeah, good distinction. I didn’t see that stat anywhere. I do get the sense that the proportion is higher for condo owners in the central area, but I don’t know what it would be.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

Yeah, good distinction. I didn’t see that stat anywhere.

Which is why I said it as a question, rather than stating the answer.

I do get the sense that the proportion is higher for condo owners in the central area, but I don’t know what it would be.

I'm sure, though I suspect that number is still very low. Households may not own any cars either because they choose to be car free or they aren't able to own a car. There certainly is a trend with Gen Z to not drive, but very few have actually started buying homes (the oldest are approaching their mid 20's), so it is still a while before they will have any influence on construction. Even then, like Gen X, Gen Z is in the shadow of the larger generation before them so even then they may not have that much influence.

Getting back on topic, I do agree with others that I don't really like the above ground parking, but I understand why they are building it.

[originalmuffins]

Part of me wants them to forego a little bit of their parking for an extra 5 m and get this to 200m lol (and hopefully get that approval). I don't think there is any updates on this after checking the devapp, which 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Really wish this would get approved so they could get stuff going for this like the Trinity Development (900 Albert). Ugh.

[fireicedog]

New design and a major reduction in height.

https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D02-02-21-0045/details

[originalmuffins]

They really chopped 20 floors to make it 40? Wtf???? I don' t mind the new design but that's so stupid.

[originalmuffins]

And the worst part is, it's very table-top with the Icon...

[Harley613]

This proposal looks FAR better than the previous 60 story one in my opinion....at least until the Claridge bean counters absolutely DESTROY this new gorgeous new Hariri Pontarini design with Albibaba and Wish.com building materials. I am really glad that it sits between Icon and the other existing buildings in the area in height and doesn't create a new tabletop in Little Italy.

They are moving to 7 floors of underground parking instead of 6 levels underground/7 levels above ground parking like the previous proposal. Didn't I hear somewhere that they would never dig that deep in bedrock again after the Icon experience? That being said, the building looks far better without a 7 story parking garage as it's podium. I suppose they were able to halve the parking requirements by reducing the floor count.

Kneejerk reaction: Looks incredible, seems far more likely to get built in the near future, helps to raise the Ottawa SoftCap above 32 floors, plenty of room for varied and taller heights in the neighbourhood...and not a single charcoal brick.

[Tariq20]

I love the new design but it dropped 20 floors??? maybe 15 or 10 floors if they dont want it to high

[DTcrawler]

Damn, there goes another opportunity to break the 50 floor mark in Ottawa. I really like the design, we'll have to see how well Claridge executes it but at the very least, I hope they aren't forced to further drop the height.

[yotajoe]

This design is way better than the first one. Going from 60 to 40 is a big drop, I wish they would've kept it taller than the icon by a few floors.

[OTSkyline]

Meh, another disappointment. Difficult to say but other than the angular metal design on the corner (which is almost certain to be removed somewhere along the design stage), the tower itself is very plain and boring. Get ready for a lot less window coverage and a lot more panelling.

And to drop the height down 20 floors to make it even shorter than Icon is the icing on the cake.

[Ottawacurious]

I keep reading all the different height allowances via the different plans. I'm wondering why they aren't going for the 55 in this case?

Side note, the massing images are interesting! Page 10 (12 of 56) http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%...anning%20Rationale%20-D07-12-21-0067.PDF

"The Secondary Plan supports building heights greater than nine (9) storeys. The proposed amendment aligns the subject site with the policies of the Secondary Plan which anticipate building heights of 30 to 55 storeys for a site located within a Mixed-Use Centre and near an LRT station. The proposed 40 storey development contributes to the City’s policy objectives related to growth management and intensification by locating tall buildings and greatest densities on sites close to transit in a manner that is appropriate for the existing and planned context of this key gateway into the downtown core of the City of Ottawa."

"It should be noted that due to the reduction in height of the revised proposal an Official Plan Amendment is no longer being sought."

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Meh, another disappointment. Difficult to say but other than the angular metal design on the corner (which is almost certain to be removed somewhere along the design stage), the tower itself is very plain and boring. Get ready for a lot less window coverage and a lot more panelling.

And to drop the height down 20 floors to make it even shorter than Icon is the icing on the cake.

Either removed or botched by Claridge.

Very disappointed in the height drop. If they at least kept 50.

I preferred the old design as it was simpler (less prone to Claridgefication) and had different colouring. It would have stood out for more than it's height.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Damn, there goes another opportunity to break the 50 floor mark in Ottawa. I really like the design, we'll have to see how well Claridge executes it but at the very least, I hope they aren't forced to further drop the height.

The worst part is this could've been such a strong densified cluster once those Richcraft The Sky towers go up, and the height variations would've been awesome from 60 with what this was supposed to be, 55 with the tallest Sky Tower 1, 45 Sky Tower 2, Icon at 45, Soho Italia at 30, and then 18 floors with Sky Tower 3. Ugh.

Originally Posted by Tariq20

I love the new design but it dropped 20 floors??? maybe 15 or 10 floors if they dont want it to high

Exactly, 10 floor drop isn't so bad in the grand scheme of things, but 1/3rd chopped just like that? What the hell, Claridge?

Originally Posted by Ottawacurious

I keep reading all the different height allowances via the different plans. I'm wondering why they aren't going for the 55 in this case?

Side note, the massing images are interesting! Page 10 (12 of 56) http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%...anning%20Rationale%20-D07-12-21-0067.PDF

"The Secondary Plan supports building heights greater than nine (9) storeys. The proposed amendment aligns the subject site with the policies of the Secondary Plan which anticipate building heights of 30 to 55 storeys for a site located within a Mixed-Use Centre and near an LRT station. The proposed 40 storey development contributes to the City’s policy objectives related to growth management and intensification by locating tall buildings and greatest densities on sites close to transit in a manner that is appropriate for the existing and planned context of this key gateway into the downtown core of the City of Ottawa."

"It should be noted that due to the reduction in height of the revised proposal an Official Plan Amendment is no longer being sought."

I mean honestly, even the 60 floor one was likely to be approved, it wasn't being met with such disdain like the Richmond towers were. This is on Claridge and not the city. And they are botching max height potential in such a prime location.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Either removed or botched by Claridge.

Very disappointed in the height drop. If they at least kept 50.

I preferred the old design as it was simpler (less prone to Claridgefication) and had different colouring. It would have stood out for more than it's height.

I also prefer the old design just because the simpler design is more what you see is what you'll get with Claridge. The more they overcomplicate, the more they underdeliver. When they do something simple, it turns out usually looking ok. If they kept it to 50 at least and a bit higher than the Icon, I'd be less annoyed with this project.

[rocketphish]

Initial applications for an Official Plan Amendment, Zoning By-law Amendment and Site Plan Control were submitted to the City of Ottawa in 2021. The applications were to permit the development of a high-rise, 60-storey, mixed-use building with 459 residential units, 259.37 square metres of ground floor commercial-retail area, 385 vehicle parking and 230 bicycle spaces. The applications were circulated, and City’s comments were received on January 12, 2022. The development proposal has since been amended to reduced density and heights by now proposing a mixed-use, high-rise, 40-storey building with 396 units, 337 square metres of ground floor commercial-retail area, 196 vehicle and 198 bicycle parking spaces on site.

It should be noted that due to the reduction in height of the revised proposal an Official Plan Amendment is no longer being sought.

Architect: Hariri Pontarini Architects


Development application:
https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D02-02-21-0045/details


Siteplan:






Renderings:

[J.OT13]

I think I would preferred if they kept the parking garage above ground. For one, it would raise the height by 4 to 8 floors (depending on how much would be above ground). it would also reduce construction time and cost, which could be reallocated to better materials or slightly reduced unit prices/rents.

[rocketphish]

Neil Malhotra: But 60 floors is too expensive to build!
Hariri Pontarini: You want to create an enduring classic design don't you?
Neil: Absolutely! 40 stories is a classic in Ottawa.
Shawn Malhotra: And we need more charcoal.
Neil: ... and more white!
Hariri: OK, I'll redo the design, and I have an idea to include these fantastical indented corners that span the height of the building.
Neil: Sounds great, but use flat panels that we can cheapen later.
Shawn: ...or remove completely.
Hariri: Sigh.
Bill Malhotra: Lookin' good boys!