Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618
1) They're already working on that
2) West Chester wants it, but SEPTA doesn't. The ROW out that way is in even worse shape than the section they've just restored, and with times from Philly estimated at an hour and 20 mins compared to 40 mins to Exton and then a 10 minute car ride, it's unlikely we'll see it return soon.
3) I agree, but good luck kicking that trail off. I also think they should have it branch off of the West Trenton Line where they met, rather than go via Fox Chase.
4) I actually work for the New Hope Railroad! A good amount of track south of Buckingham was washed out during the summer storms this year. We are currently isolated from our track equipment. As money comes in, we'll slowly make repairs, but it is going to take a long, long time without significant investment from the government.
PS. When we do one day have service from New Hope to Warminster, 40 will NOT be the engine for the job. All I am saying.
5) Hard agree.
6) There was one historically, but the issue is, where? ZOO is a nightmare of an interlocking.
7) Hard agree.
8) DRPA has tentative plans for that, but it's been radio silence. The city also identified that as a potential route for investment.
9) It's not BRT, but the 1 does serve this route.
10) Can't happen. Amtrak would never let yet another infill stop clog up their DC -> NYC mainline.
11) Tentative plans for this in the works, dependent on how that area pans out in the next 10 years or so
12) One day. They've only been talking about it for four decades.
13) Not super familiar with Jersey lines but there does seem to be a ROW following this route. Potential light rail, a-la Riverline?
14) See my afterwards.
Mostly agreeable points, but in reality we're going to have to pick and choose until we find ourselves in an America that appreciates the train for what it is: the most efficient mode of ground transportation.
We also seem to have lost a lot of imagination. Most of the ideas politicians have been floating around for the last 20 years are ideas that were thought of in the early half of the 20th century. Here's an idea:
The maroon line on this crude map I've made represents a line I've been toying with for awhile now. I've made posts on it before, but in case you haven't seen them, the line basically runs along the ex-PRR high line until Arsenal Interlocking, takes the bridge over the Schuylkill, and then runs beneath Washington Avenue as a subway.
Utilizing the High Line in this way makes sense for a few reasons, but mostly that it would create a semi-outer loop of transit around Center City, from Girard to University City to Washington. If a light rail was built down Delaware Ave, you'd see a full loop realized.
This line would serve the Zoo, any future 30th St Station District, 30th itself (and a direct connection to the MFL), Penn Medicine, and then Washington Avenue, including Broad Street (with another direct connection to the BSL) and the Italian Market. A spur could certainly be built using the (at this point) defunct 25th Street Viaduct to serve the Bellwether District.
But how would CSX/NS/Conrail serve South Philly? It's simple: the other side of the river. The tracks there continue into south Philly to Greenwich Yard and the CSX Philly Sub... but only southbound. If a wye bridge could be built at Bartram's Mile (not unlike what the Reading and Northern just built in Jim Thorpe), the High Line would serve no real purpose, and all of this would be possible (the tunnel under the Art Museum would also have to be heightened to allow for double stack trains, but I believe that that is already something CSX plans on doing). /rant
PS. Imagine the views! |
1. Yeah, I knew they had it in the plans for the Amtrak line to Reading. Hope it happens and hope SEPTA piggy backs off of it.
2. They should extend the line to West Chester. West Chester is probably going to have to get behind it and back it the way KOP/Upper Merion has with their transit plans. When Phoenixville and KOP get their transit lines, West Chester will literally be the most important remaining suburban Philadelphia town with no transit line.
4. That's awesome! I had no idea... and sad to see some of the tracks washed out. Maybe one day we'll live in a country where transit lines can actually get funding.
6. The spot for a regional rail stop at the Zoo will probably be the bridge over Girard Ave, no? I understand parts of this would have to be rebuilt.
8. Hope it happens!
9. Yes, I know it does but BRT would definitely move people quicker.
10. Understandable. Makes sense Amtrak wouldn't want another station here. Fine with that though - a station there isn't a huge must. The City Branch line could have a station at Girard to service Brewerytown at the least. Maybe a station at Fountain Green Drive as well that could service East Fairmount Park.
13. There is a row that runs from somewhere in Camden. The row also connects with the Atlantic City Line. So, at the very least, they could add a Merchantville train station at Maple Ave on the existing Atlantic City line, then branch a "Mount Holly" line off of that. There are old preserved train stations all along the way though. The one in Merchantville has a cafe in it called "The Station" and is located at the intersection of Center Street and Chestnut Ave. The one in Maple Shade is located at Front Street and Forklanding Road. The one in Moorestown is located where Church Street, Union Street, 3rd Street and Central Ave all meet. I believe there's a dentist office in there now. Mount Holly's has a distillery in there now called Train Wreck Distillery on Madison Ave just down from the intersection at Washington Street.
I like your plan a lot and think it makes total sense. Unfortunately, like you said, I just don't see subway construction happening very regularly in this country, which is why everything I have in my mind is elevated, light rail above grade, or uses existing rows. The only subway I think we can get accomplished is the extension to the Navy Yard, but if SEPTA can't even get funding to extend the BSL from Pattison Ave/NRG Station, down to Broad Street & League Island Boulevard in the Navy Yard, which is mostly not urban and built up around it.... then I don't see how they're ever going to get funding to tunnel a subway all the way down Washington Ave - which is pretty urban and built up.
To prioritize my list then, I would say from most needed to can wait for the future:
1. Broad Street Line expansion to the Navy Yard.
2. Regional Rail stop at the Zoo.
3. Delaware Ave/Columbus Blvd light rail line with stations at Richmond & Beech Streets, Columbia Ave/Penn Treaty Park, Frankford Ave/Casino/Entertainment Complex, Spring Garden Street, Race Street, Dock Street/Spruce Street, South Street, Christian Street, Reed Street, Snyder Ave, Oregon Ave, 11th & Pattison, Broad & Pattison, 20th & Pattison, 20th & Penrose, Broad/Oregon/Moyamensing, 10th & Oregon, 5th & Oregon
4. Cultural Line Branch from Broad Street with stops at Broad, 18th St, 21st St, Spring Garden Street, Fairmount Ave, Girard Ave, Fountain Green Drive and West Fairmount Park somewhere along MLK Drive
5. Amtrak/SEPTA line that hits KOP, Valley Forge, Phoenixville, Royersford/Spring City, Pottstown and Reading. Colebrookedale Railroad could also run a line from Pottstown to Boyertown to branch off of this.
6. SEPTA Media/Elwyn expansion to West Chester.
7. KOP Transit line branching off of NHSL with stops at the Mall at Allendale Road, Mall Blvd & Goddard Blvd (Mall and future mixed use development), Gulph Road & Goddard Blvd (KOP Town Center), Gulph Road and First Ave (casino, top golf, office buildings and future mixed-use development), and Gulph Road and Valley Forge Road (Valley Forge Park)
8. SEPTA Newtown line hitting Bryn Athyn and Southampton
9. The New Hope Railroad line from Warminster to New Hope
10. Bus Rapid Transit along Route 1/Roosevelt Blvd from the Neshaminy Mall, down through Northeast Philly and to City Ave/Bala Cynwyd
11. Regional Rail Station around 9th and Girard Ave
12. NJ Transit Line down through Gloucester City, Woodbury, Pitman and Glassboro
13. NJ Transit line through Merchantville, Maple Shade, Moorestown and Mount Holly
14. In the future, once the Bellwether District gets going, there needs to be a rail line down along 25th Street Viaduct to service Grays Ferry, Point Breeze and the Bellwether District.
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