[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Colin O’Brien @COB16_
A total of 7 new “large scale” construction projects are set to break ground #uptownsj in 2022!

These projects amount to 353 new residential units in Uptown Saint John!

We can expect this number to grow after the spring phase of approvals.

https://twitter.com/COB16_/status/1477329360340365314/photo/1

I guess I’ll make the reveal here, that’s my account. That 353 number includes the Wellington but it is not included in the overall project number. I figured the Wellington is in such early stages in deserved to be included in the new units number.

As the tweet mentions these are only new large scale projects. Not the smaller refurbishment projects that Adamuptownsj often informs us about. If you included those projects I suspect we’d be over 400.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

I guess I’ll make the reveal here, that’s my account. That 353 number includes the Wellington but it is not included in the overall project number. I figured the Wellington is in such early stages in deserved to be included in the new units number.

As the tweet mentions these are only new large scale projects. Not the smaller refurbishment projects that Adamuptownsj often informs us about. If you included those projects I suspect we’d be over 400.

Do you think you could provide a breakdown of those 353?

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Do you think you could provide a breakdown of those 353?

Yeah absolutely.

99 King: 93 units
Steepleview: 56 units
Fundy Quay Phase 1: 165 units
The Skyline: 35 units
Townhouses on Queen Square: 4 units

Totals out to 353.

I guess I didn’t add the Wellington after all, not sure why I thought I did, my bad. The other two projects are market slip & the container village.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Yeah absolutely.

99 King: 93 units
Steepleview: 56 units
Fundy Quay Phase 1: 165 units
The Skyline: 35 units
Townhouses on Queen Square: 4 units

Totals out to 353.

I guess I didn’t add the Wellington after all, not sure why I thought I did, my bad. The other two projects are market slip & the container village.

Thanks.

IIRC there's 12 supportive housing 'units' planned across from the Cathedral on the corner of Richmond/Waterloo as well. Not sure if they're worth counting as units though.

[cdnguys]

Any other projects in the hopper? I’m surprised nothing is planned for Sewell St - huge tracts of land that is just parking lots. Very visible area when coming into city - be nice to see a low rise development there. The vibe is thousands of Ontarians want to move here - we just need more and more mid priced projects to accommodate them. I think you could build 3000 new units in uptown and they’d be filled. Also anxiously awaiting to see what will be announced for Smythe St substation lot.

[ColSJ]

I think it’s inevitable we will see at least one more big project announced between now and the summer construction season. That’s not based off of insider knowledge just with the way things are going. I suspect there is someone out there working behind the scenes to finalize their plans. And when that time comes that the developer makes their first move I’m sure one of us will catch the hint.

[cdnguys]

On a positive note, although we don’t have the quantity of projects Halifax and Moncton have, what is being built is architecturally pleasing. Just look at the design of The Wellington, phase 1 of Fundy Quay and Ethos Ridge. Inspiring spaces will be built. I’m excited for Moncton’s new skyline, but cringe when I see the Record St concrete centric quick build project. I hope that never happens here (and hopefully the upcoming announcement for downtown Moncton area is high calibre looks wise.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Any other projects in the hopper? I’m surprised nothing is planned for Sewell St - huge tracts of land that is just parking lots. Very visible area when coming into city - be nice to see a low rise development there. The vibe is thousands of Ontarians want to move here - we just need more and more mid priced projects to accommodate them. I think you could build 3000 new units in uptown and they’d be filled. Also anxiously awaiting to see what will be announced for Smythe St substation lot.

Sewell is on a cliff in what's still a pretty grim corner of uptown. No ocean views either. I don't think Saint John owns any of these lots, and it remains difficult to pry parking lots out of private hands.

Smythe substation is... fun, in terms of who owns what. As in, everyone owns a bit. Plus, when exactly is construction of the Paradise Row substation starting?

From south to north...
01658937 is the actual transformer site. I dunno if SJ Energy owns it or has/had a long term lease.

01658929 is the lower two fifths of the parking lot and a water lot, which is somewhat unique. I believe the city owns it.

An L-shaped piece of the remainder of the parking lot is part of Port (read: federal) lands and cannot be sold off without some major paperwork, but the port is able to lease land for non-residential purposes easily.

The area said L cuts around is another, smaller L of DOT owned roadway land, not part of a 'property' per se.

Lastly, that smaller L abuts 05431727, which is half parking lot and half access road to Long Wharf. I don't know who owns it but it must be the city or DOT.

So for anything to happen, you basically have to consolidate a City-owned lot, the lot currently used for the substation, some Port lands, some provincial DOT lands, and part of a 5th lot. Then you have to raise it.

What the city SHOULD do is actively try and find a buyer for...

-27 Union, which is the lot directly south of the Red Rose Tea building. Build wall to wall.

-the Trinity Royal lot at 87 Charlotte, at least the daily portion, which abuts King's Square, could have incredible views of the harbour and King's Square/LBG if you go up to 7-8 floors.

-Canterbury & Princess is actually on the city radar and the Telegraph proves there's an appetite for something nicer.

19 Charlotte, 121 Waterloo, and Duke and Sydney would be excellent sites for smaller/cheaper infill projects.

I've mentioned before how Saint John should use the Fundy Quay opportunity to build a mega garage under the entire site and actively reduce surface lots, or at least seriously consider constructing a new garage facility elsewhere with the intention of eliminating an equal amount of surface lots.

Where would this go, if not pleasantly underground and out of sight? Maybe the interior of the Trinity Royal lots (bounded by Germain/King/Charlotte/Trinity Church). It certainly shouldn't get street frontage.

[ColSJ]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention the lot at Coburg/Union/Charlotte street intersection. That vacant lot has to be my least favourite on the entire peninsula. It’s my understanding it, along with other prime lots is owned by someone uses them as commercial parking with no intentions of ever building.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Sewell is on a cliff in what's still a pretty grim corner of uptown. No ocean views either. I don't think Saint John owns any of these lots, and it remains difficult to pry parking lots out of private hands.

Smythe substation is... fun, in terms of who owns what. As in, everyone owns a bit. Plus, when exactly is construction of the Paradise Row substation starting?

From south to north...
01658937 is the actual transformer site. I dunno if SJ Energy owns it or has/had a long term lease.

01658929 is the lower two fifths of the parking lot and a water lot, which is somewhat unique. I believe the city owns it.

An L-shaped piece of the remainder of the parking lot is part of Port (read: federal) lands and cannot be sold off without some major paperwork, but the port is able to lease land for non-residential purposes easily.

The area said L cuts around is another, smaller L of DOT owned roadway land, not part of a 'property' per se.

Lastly, that smaller L abuts 05431727, which is half parking lot and half access road to Long Wharf. I don't know who owns it but it must be the city or DOT.

So for anything to happen, you basically have to consolidate a City-owned lot, the lot currently used for the substation, some Port lands, some provincial DOT lands, and part of a 5th lot. Then you have to raise it.

What the city SHOULD do is actively try and find a buyer for...

-27 Union, which is the lot directly south of the Red Rose Tea building. Build wall to wall.

-the Trinity Royal lot at 87 Charlotte, at least the daily portion, which abuts King's Square, could have incredible views of the harbour and King's Square/LBG if you go up to 7-8 floors.

-Canterbury & Princess is actually on the city radar and the Telegraph proves there's an appetite for something nicer.

19 Charlotte, 121 Waterloo, and Duke and Sydney would be excellent sites for smaller/cheaper infill projects.

I've mentioned before how Saint John should use the Fundy Quay opportunity to build a mega garage under the entire site and actively reduce surface lots, or at least seriously consider constructing a new garage facility elsewhere with the intention of eliminating an equal amount of surface lots.

Where would this go, if not pleasantly underground and out of sight? Maybe the interior of the Trinity Royal lots (bounded by Germain/King/Charlotte/Trinity Church). It certainly shouldn't get street frontage.

I’d love to see that Charlotte St parking lot built on! Seems like low hanging fruit - already tall buildings with approved height variance nearby, owned by city, location location location, views of harbour, bay and trinity royal.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

I’m surprised you didn’t mention the lot at Coburg/Union/Charlotte street intersection. That vacant lot has to be my least favourite on the entire peninsula. It’s my understanding it, along with other prime lots is owned by someone uses them as commercial parking with no intentions of ever building.

Yes biggest eye sore in area - I’d love to have legislation that you either develop it or forced to sell it at assessment plus 30%. It’s not in the middle of the woods somewhere, it’s dead centre of city - not a lot intended to park your trucks

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Yes biggest eye sore in area - I’d love to have legislation that you either develop it or forced to sell it at assessment plus 30%. It’s not in the middle of the woods somewhere, it’s dead centre of city - not a lot intended to park your trucks

I didn't mention it as the city did not own it and couldn't make a unilateral decision to unload it. The city actually only owns one of the lots in the immediate area, 20 Dorchester.

19 Coburg runs clear to Dorchester, and 12 Dorchester is very shallow with 15 Coburg extending 3/4 of the way to Dorchester, presumably both lots owned by the same entity.

Are the remaining four lots (10 Dorchester, 9 Coburg, 155 Union, 161 Union) all owned by one entity, or just the Union ones?

I DID forget to mention the large Peters St lot and its nub on Union, which IIRC was made somewhat superfluous by the Irving garages.

A consolidated garage between St Joe's and Agar Place for hospital staff and patients, and Service Canada and provincial employees, would allow for a huge reduction in surface lots. Build it on the Golding St lot.

City owned lots visible here: https://saintjohn.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=625fac9c71c34b0db955447fcc137f60

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Yeah absolutely.

99 King: 93 units
Steepleview: 56 units
Fundy Quay Phase 1: 165 units
The Skyline: 35 units
Townhouses on Queen Square: 4 units

Totals out to 353.

I guess I didn’t add the Wellington after all, not sure why I thought I did, my bad. The other two projects are market slip & the container village.

I hope we get more details on 99 King soon. That gaping hole, on a otherwise a lovely street is quite the eye sore right now.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Any other projects in the hopper? I’m surprised nothing is planned for Sewell St - huge tracts of land that is just parking lots. Very visible area when coming into city - be nice to see a low rise development there. The vibe is thousands of Ontarians want to move here - we just need more and more mid priced projects to accommodate them. I think you could build 3000 new units in uptown and they’d be filled. Also anxiously awaiting to see what will be announced for Smythe St substation lot.

I'd love Sewell to get something. I understand it would be a bit of a challenge with the elevation changes on that lot. But even 2 x 8-12 tower units that were designed well, would be a lot nicer to look at driving in than the empty grassy lot with a few parking spaces.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I hope we get more details on 99 King soon. That gaping hole, on a otherwise a lovely street is quite the eye sore right now.

I’m a little worried about the project, given the lack of anchor tenant thus far and the bland initial render. Hopefully there is a lot of background work going on to get everything aligned for an update this Spring.

[cdnguys]

They do have a major commercial tenant (just not the grocery store they hoped). The rendering is more than initial - pretty final. Seems like 1/2 like, 1/2 dislike but I’ll put my trust in a well accomplished architect and just thankful it’s not the cookie cutter concrete and glass that are popping up in other cities.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

They do have a major commercial tenant (just not the grocery store they hoped). The rendering is more than initial - pretty final. Seems like 1/2 like, 1/2 dislike but I’ll put my trust in a well accomplished architect and just thankful it’s not the cookie cutter concrete and glass that are popping up in other cities.

I never heard who this commercial tenant is. Has there been new information released?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by homebody

I never heard who this commercial tenant is. Has there been new information released?

Not revealed publicly. I don’t want to say because it wasn’t announced - in fairness to developer

[homebody]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Not revealed publicly. I don’t want to say because it wasn’t announced - in fairness to developer

Completely understand. Thanks for the update. Hope things get underway soon for that site.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

I guess I’ll make the reveal here, that’s my account.

Didn't mean to out you but I definitely assumed they visited or viewed this forum in some capacity.

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Not revealed publicly. I don’t want to say because it wasn’t announced - in fairness to developer

Throwing darts at a board but it wouldn't shock me if it was a tenant that's common in larger centres for primary commercial spots - Shoppers, etc.. Boring but definitely beats what was there prior.

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Seems like 1/2 like, 1/2 dislike but I’ll put my trust in a well accomplished architect and just thankful it’s not the cookie cutter concrete and glass that are popping up in other cities.

Does heritage status not prevent primarily glass structures from being erected in this area?