LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by nmkef

The LA Streetcar project appears to still be alive, though obviously moving very slow.



Looking at their website, feasibility study was initially done in July 2006, so only 20 years later we might see something

It would address some of the connection issue you mention, and the regional connector should help some more with getting to Little Tokyo and the north end of the Arts District. Not really sure how they are going to solve connectivity with that new block of development in the Arts District we're seeing east of the ROW. Even the ROW development is pretty isolated and really requires a car or annoying uber/lyft to get to.



Their last "project update" from the end of 2020 did mention how they considered adjusting the project map or pursuing an accelerated timeline... I'm not super hopeful of anything soon given how infrastructure projects in the US generally go

Looking at the map does remind me of the DASH bus lines. I've never actually taken any, just used bikeshare or the actual metro to get around - has anyone actually found them to be effective in getting around DTLA?

Jeez, I forgot all about this lol.
I'm confused. What are the stations?

[citywatch]

When ppl complain that a new proj proposed for dtla isn't taller & larger, they need to watch this. What apparently has been enacted in china over the past 2 years might give anti-highrise nimbys in LA some satisfaction, but it happens to give me some relief. I don't mind towers, but the super talls in Asia or the skinny tall apt skyscrapers built in NYC over the past 5 to 10 yrs don't impress me one bit. Personally, I think the ones in Manhattan look clownish & ruin that city's classic skyline.

even more than before, I just want parking lots or old rundown small bldgs in dtla replaced with new devlpt that's clean & nice looking. It's scale & height are not big concerns of mine. Of course, if a devlpr has tenants lined up that need 1 or 2 million sq ft, & that requires a design of 70, 80, 90 floors, fine. But only if the demand is there.

What even officials in China are now emphasizing as lower density, more friendly & sustainable are things I can't disagree with.

[Easy]

I take DASH buses fairly regularly. They're ok if they go where you want to go, but they stop nearly every block, so they're slower than metro buses. They also aren't on the Google transit app or any transit app afaik. You have to go to the LADOT/DASH website to see where they are.

I personally don't support the streetcar as transit. It's worse than a bus because it can't detour if there are issues on the street. I guess that it's ok as a tourist attraction and may get non-transit riders used to transit, but it's very expensive for what you get. I think that it will be a colossal waste of money.

[DJM19]

If the street car had half as many stops, was bi-directional, and instead if making a big at the bottom it extended its reach at the top, I might support it.

[nmkef]

Yea the single direction plus mass redundancy with Metro rail lines makes it less appealing to me, but I see value in it as an alternative to walking ~10 blocks given the number of stops it has in between typical rail lines plus the extension down the core and fashion district areas. I also kind of like the idea of quickly hopping on a street level tram versus going all the way in and out of a station just for one or two subway stops. Reminds me of cities like Milan that mix up the two methods. Agree that it will be much less useful as long as it's only one direction though. Honestly, it might also be better suited to some of the spread out areas like LT, Arts District, Chinatown, or Ktown that aren't very effectively served via trains.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Easy

I take DASH buses fairly regularly. They're ok if they go where you want to go, but they stop nearly every block, so they're slower than metro buses. They also aren't on the Google transit app or any transit app afaik. You have to go to the LADOT/DASH website to see where they are.

I personally don't support the streetcar as transit. It's worse than a bus because it can't detour if there are issues on the street. I guess that it's ok as a tourist attraction and may get non-transit riders used to transit, but it's very expensive for what you get. I think that it will be a colossal waste of money.

I think it could boost tourism though. And even locals who want to go bar hopping easier on Broadway/Spring.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Easy

^DTLA does have gaps, but I don’t think that it needs to be more compact, rather the gaps need to be filled in. There are existing plans to fill in many of those gaps at least from Pico to 1st and Fig to Main. LT will still be somewhat disconnected although the regional connector will make it feel more connected.

As a downtown resident for over 5 years, I don’t feel much connection to the Arts District. MacArthur Park and Koreatown feel more connected to downtown than the Arts District to me. That’s what happens when people define areas by where freeways travel rather than by walking and public transportation.

I’ve been a resident in DTLA for over five years too. My friends and I feel much more connected to Little Tokyo and the Arts District. I would have never thought anyone felt more connect to KTown and MacArthur Park. Just goes to show how people can have different experiences.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by Easy

I take DASH buses fairly regularly. They're ok if they go where you want to go, but they stop nearly every block, so they're slower than metro buses. They also aren't on the Google transit app or any transit app afaik. You have to go to the LADOT/DASH website to see where they are.

I personally don't support the streetcar as transit. It's worse than a bus because it can't detour if there are issues on the street. I guess that it's ok as a tourist attraction and may get non-transit riders used to transit, but it's very expensive for what you get. I think that it will be a colossal waste of money.

It would probably be beneficial getting people to staples center from 7th and metro. I also see it being beneficial for Broadway so I really support this provided it goes in both directions. Would be nice if it were up and running by the Olympics.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by dktshb

It would probably be beneficial getting people to staples center from 7th and metro. I also see it being beneficial for Broadway so I really support this provided it goes in both directions. Would be nice if it were up and running by the Olympics.

Nah. It's only planned to travel clockwise so you have to do nearly the entire loop just to travel 3 blocks. Maybe on the way back, but there are so many buses to choose from that just do the job so much better from the perspective of a transit rider. Or you could just walk from Pico which will have very frequent service.

The advantages of the streetcar will be that it's more comfortable than a bus and that it's easier to understand for non-transit riders. Other than that, it will usually be the less direct and less frequent option because DTLA has so many bus options. I think that it's advocates are primarily people that rarely ride public transit or at least not buses.

It may generate development but I don't think that is a certainty nor will it even be necessary because of DTLA2040.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by scania

I’ve been a resident in DTLA for over five years too. My friends and I feel much more connected to Little Tokyo and the Arts District. I would have never thought anyone felt more connect to KTown and MacArthur Park. Just goes to show how people can have different experiences.

My experiences are strongly tied to me often getting around by transit and the fact that the Arts District is hard to get to by bus. I have gone to the Arts District plenty of times by Uber and driving, but that alone makes it feel distant to me as if it's somewhere else and not downtown.

Little Tokyo is much more connected to downtown by transit so I do feel a connection.

[badrunner]

I agree the Arts District feels kind of disconnected. You get some great views of the downtown skyline but it doesn't feel like you're IN downtown.



That streetcar map shows a subway extension to the Arts District. Is that a serious proposal or just a pipe dream? That could even be an above ground extension since the metro service yard is already there.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by badrunner

I agree the Arts District feels kind of disconnected. You get some great views of the downtown skyline but it doesn't feel like you're IN downtown.



That streetcar map shows a subway extension to the Arts District. Is that a serious proposal or just a pipe dream? That could even be an above ground extension since the metro service yard is already there.

That's a serious thing and the city of LA came up with funding so it's going to happen. Likely in just a few years.

Yeah, they are currently building new tail tracks in the metro yard so that trains can turn in the yard and not at Union Station. That was necessary in order to be able to have the anticipated service frequencies nice the D line extension fully opens. Likely every 6 minutes on each line so every 3 minutes in the shared trunk. They are building the tail tracks in a way that will allow a new station to be added at 6th street. That could break ground in the next year or two (an EIR is still needed) and completed in 3-4 years.

[nmkef]

Here's the metro page for the 6th street station. It would finally provide access to that "new development" region in the Arts District we're seeing a bunch of new offices and restaurants open up in around some of the lofts.

https://www.metro.net/projects/arts-dist-6th-station/



It only just started environmental review process, but as mentioned above it is piggybacking on some existing work for the D/Purple line expansion. As an at-grade station I agree it could be finished pretty soon.

https://urbanize.city/la/post/environmental-review-begins-proposed-arts-district-metro-station

There really is a neat area over there, but I agree that I pretty much only ever get over there via Uber, or during the daytime when I use one of the bikeshare stations and have a lot of free time

[Radio5]

Originally Posted by Easy

That's a serious thing and the city of LA came up with funding so it's going to happen. Likely in just a few years.

Yeah, they are currently building new tail tracks in the metro yard so that trains can turn in the yard and not at Union Station. That was necessary in order to be able to have the anticipated service frequencies nice the D line extension fully opens. Likely every 6 minutes on each line so every 3 minutes in the shared trunk. They are building the tail tracks in a way that will allow a new station to be added at 6th street. That could break ground in the next year or two (an EIR is still needed) and completed in 3-4 years.

Is it only that one station? For some reason I recall early on they were also going to have one at 3rd/4th st by the one santa fe bldg.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by Radio5

Is it only that one station? For some reason I recall early on they were also going to have one at 3rd/4th st by the one santa fe bldg.

It was initially just a study following a motion from a board member and Metro wasn't sure whether it would happen or if it did where they would put it. The ongoing work to make the turnaround may have limited their options and they currently say that 6th is the best option.

In my opinion, that's a really good spot for the Arts District. It's convenient to much of what's happening and planned. When the WSAB station happens in 8-15 years, the Arts District will be surrounded by stations when you include the Little Tokyo station. They'll all be around the perimeter, but just about everyone there will have a station within walking distance.

[caligrad]

Originally Posted by Easy

I take DASH buses fairly regularly. They're ok if they go where you want to go, but they stop nearly every block, so they're slower than metro buses. They also aren't on the Google transit app or any transit app afaik. You have to go to the LADOT/DASH website to see where they are.

I personally don't support the streetcar as transit. It's worse than a bus because it can't detour if there are issues on the street. I guess that it's ok as a tourist attraction and may get non-transit riders used to transit, but it's very expensive for what you get. I think that it will be a colossal waste of money.

I have to agree. A street car downtown at this point for me just feels out of place. Id prefer the money gets pushed to bigger transit projects like a purple/red line stop in the arts. By the time the Street car gets completed, the arts district will be a big island with its nearest stop near little Tokyo. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by caligrad

I have to agree. A street car downtown at this point for me just feels out of place. Id prefer the money gets pushed to bigger transit projects like a purple/red line stop in the arts. By the time the Street car gets completed, the arts district will be a big island with its nearest stop near little Tokyo. Doesn't make sense to me.

The city of LA has already committed to funding a B/D Arts District station most likely at 6th. That should be built within the next several years well ahead of the streetcar.

[LAisthePlace]

Originally Posted by caligrad

I have to agree. A street car downtown at this point for me just feels out of place. Id prefer the money gets pushed to bigger transit projects like a purple/red line stop in the arts. By the time the Street car gets completed, the arts district will be a big island with its nearest stop near little Tokyo. Doesn't make sense to me.

I'd have to disagree - As someone who just moved to Downtown that is relatively close (~4 blocks) to a subway stop but not close close, but has a stop for this basically outside my door I'd use this all the time (especially if it was bi-directional).

What that may mean is I simply need to better understand the bus schedule/options better, but I think there are plenty of people like me, especially visitors from both other states/countries and other parts of LA who would hop right on one of these.

The best connected cities around the world have multiple layers of transit streecars/trams, busses, subways that sometimes overlap to make it as easy as possible to get around, especially in an area that will continue only get more dense going forward like Downtown LA.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by LAisthePlace

I'd have to disagree - As someone who just moved to Downtown that is relatively close (~4 blocks) to a subway stop but not close close, but has a stop for this basically outside my door I'd use this all the time (especially if it was bi-directional).

What that may mean is I simply need to better understand the bus schedule/options better, but I think there are plenty of people like me, especially visitors from both other states/countries and other parts of LA who would hop right on one of these.

The best connected cities around the world have multiple layers of transit streecars/trams, busses, subways that sometimes overlap to make it as easy as possible to get around, especially in an area that will continue only get more dense going forward like Downtown LA.

Just to be clear it’s not planned to be bidirectional. It’s planned to travel clockwise.

Since you live downtown, you have a ton of bus options better than this streetcar. You don’t really need to investigate bus schedules if you have a smart phone. Enter your destination into google maps and select the transit option. It’s that simple. Buses can be intimidating at first but you’ll be surprised at how quickly it all starts making sense.

[nmkef]

I'd also recommend the "Transit" app. It's the officially supported app by Metro and does a great job combining routes/modes plus provides pretty accurate live-updated arrival times.