LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by badrunner

I've made regular contributions to this thread. But like most people, I just check it on occasion to see if there's any news or updates about downtown projects. Instead I get wall of text incoherent ramblings and random videos. Maybe start a blog or something.

I think he (she?) already has one.

[LAisthePlace]

This is something like 8 years in the making, so I bet some of the massive proposals we have seen in the recent years (6AM, 4th and Central, etc) were proposed in advance of this on the hopes that it would unlock.

I tried to make my first public comment since moving to DTLA in support of the plan, but sadly couldn't get my mic to work with zoom when it was my turn...

So many reasons to like this plan. Even if not perfect it is a modern, progressive, people first neighborhood plan that imagines a more vibrant downtown and allows for and encourages investment that make that vision of Downtown LA being true core for Los Angeles a reality.

If you haven't heard Director of City Planning, Vince Bertoni speak about it on CitySpeak, I'd highly recommend it https://urbanize.city/la/post/cityspeak-s03e07-vince-bertoni

Originally Posted by Easy

The DTLA2040 plan is moving forward. It was approved by the Planning Commission on 9/23/21 and will progress and hopefully be approved by the City Council over the next several months.

The amount of change included in this plan is HUGE! The plan allows for, and incentivizes, the construction of up to 100,000 new housing units and 175,000 new residents just in DTLA! Many and maybe most recent projects that have taken years to progress entitlements would be approved by right.

I predict that if approved as is, that this will lead to an immediate and very significant building boom. I also predict that we’ll see almost nothing new for the next few months because it makes little sense to start or even continue a years long process that may not be needed in just a few months.

The audio and presentation slides are available at the link below.

https://planning.lacity.org/plans-polici...wntown-los-angeles-community-plan-update

[Just-In-Cali]

Originally Posted by badrunner

I've made regular contributions to this thread. But like most people, I just check it on occasion to see if there's any news or updates about downtown projects. Instead I get wall of text incoherent ramblings and random videos. Maybe start a blog or something.

We had a period of peace for a while from these kind of posts. Then a few people started engaging...now the last few months of pages have been overwhelmed with directionless cross comparisons of no real consequence to DTLA development.
If we stop giving it oxygen...the fire will burn itself out.
If you see posters literally posting the same complaint/comment reworded over and over, its about attention, not conversation.

On another note. The LA2040 (wish it were 2030) plan is a huge step in reimagining what role DTLA can take in the region. I want to see a final voted on plan tho.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Easy

Just my opinion but all of your posts about NYC, London, and even non-development related issues concerning DTLA are very much off-topic. I can appreciate and enjoy them on occasion, but it’s been too much lately. Off topic posts take up nearly all of the last 5 pages. It’s not just you, but issues surrounding downtown developments have become lost in all of the noise about various issues near and far. This forum has many areas where posts like those are appropriate but this isn’t one of them.

Sure, it's OT when talk about devlpt in DTLA has to fit a stricter definition of what's going on & what it's all about....also when set against posts recurring for yrs about new projs in dt not being big, tall or flashy enough. That had an affect after awhile...it made me think a highrise format was the best way to create a great hood, before & after Covid.

NYC & chicago...or dubai, shanghai...can't be beat in that category, so I thought dtla was facing an uphill...maybe winless....battle. But after seeing vids of london compared with nyc & some other places....since after the lockdown in 2020....it made me realize that ppl should respect LA's own trends & formats. The lost yr of 2020 also made me overly pessimistic about how cities would recover....but they are....in some cases way more than I'd have predicted. Dtla's occupancy rates for apts have remained very good since 2020-2021...which encourages devlprs to move ahead with new projs.

I'd also have made wrong assumptions if I hadn't watched vids posted to youtube that give a close up look of various cities...including throughout socal too. They give me a better idea of whether the grass is greener....or not....on the other side of the hill.

This article goes against my own strict assumption that a sketchy area won't be able to move to the next level. The Arts dist in dt is still very gritty, but look at how businesses like this are willing to make a go of it....

Even if you’ve never heard of Gladys Tamez, you’ve probably seen her work. “Once you’re familiar with my hats, you can spot them a mile away,” the Los Angeles-based milliner, whose sculptural designs have been worn by everyone from Lady Gaga to Megan Thee Stallion, Ariana Grande to Lil Nas X, and can be seen on shows such as “American Horror Story,” tells Variety.

Now Tamez has another feather in her cap: a newly opened Gladys Tamez Millinery brick-and-mortar boutique. Connected to her atelier in downtown L.A.’s Arts District, the retail space is an art-filled shop where clients can also watch Tamez’s team of artisans handcrafting bestsellers

[bobbyv]

Originally Posted by Just-In-Cali

We had a period of peace for a while from these kind of posts. Then a few people started engaging...now the last few months of pages have been overwhelmed with directionless cross comparisons of no real consequence to DTLA development.
If we stop giving it oxygen...the fire will burn itself out.
If you see posters literally posting the same complaint/comment reworded over and over, its about attention, not conversation.

On another note. The LA2040 (wish it were 2030) plan is a huge step in reimagining what role DTLA can take in the region. I want to see a final voted on plan tho.

Couldn't agree more, I blocked that individual a long time ago.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by citywatch

That's why certain vids on youtube have surprised me over the past several wks....they've made me look more closely at NYC and, in turn, look differently at cities like London. I read that the pandemic had turned certain major cities around the US or world into ghost towns, with lots of vacancies & few ppl out & about. But what's going on in london right now is quite impressive. So the excuse that dtla is still reeling from Covid isn't as valid as it was several months ago.

But London's famous crush of nighttime pub-goers coming back to nightlife centers after the shutdown there has nothing at all to do with the lack of pre-pandemic crowds in downtown LA.

This is because downtown LA functions, first and foremost, as a major center for office workers who hold the kind of jobs--law, accounting, etc.--that have switched to remote work in the wake of the pandemic, and which have yet to switch back to in-person work.

If you must go off-topic and reference a different city to shed light on this reality in downtown Los Angeles, look to San Francisco. The lack of the usual crush of office workers there, again due to the pandemic, is the reason downtown SF is as quiet as downtown LA right now. It's the same phenomenon. And when the office skyscrapers in both downtowns fill back up again, the same pre-pandemic crowds will return in a similar fashion.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by craigs

But London's famous crush of nighttime pub-goers coming back to nightlife centers after the shutdown there has nothing at all to do with the lack of pre-pandemic crowds in downtown LA.

This is because downtown LA functions, first and foremost, as a major center for office workers who hold the kind of jobs--law, accounting, etc.--that have switched to remote work in the wake of the pandemic, and which have yet to switch back to in-person work.

If you must go off-topic and reference a different city to shed light on this reality in downtown Los Angeles, look to San Francisco. The lack of the usual crush of office workers there, again due to the pandemic, is the reason downtown SF is as quiet as downtown LA right now. It's the same phenomenon. And when the office skyscrapers in both downtowns fill back up again, the same pre-pandemic crowds will return in a similar fashion.

Chicago too. The Loop is dead compared what to what it was.

[citywatch]

I used to be bothered that more businesses weren't located in dtla. But just as I believe the most vibrant parts of london aren't where most of its corporate bldgs are located, the greater balance between residential & office may be a blessing for dtla....

In some downtown business districts, 70 percent to 80 percent of all real estate is dedicated to office space, according to an Upshot analysis with CoStar, a company that tracks real estate down to the individual building. That means there are few residents to support restaurants at night or to keep lunch counters open if office workers stay away, and few reasons for visitors to spend time or money there on the weekend.



nytimes.com

^ dtla comes in at 33%, whereas Boston, san francisco, chicago & washington dc are really top heavy up to 83% with office only...nyc is a bit more balanced at 49%.


btw, I don't believe what I post prevents other users from writing about aspects of devlpt in dtla that they find interesting or important. if I had a complaint it would be about comments that aren't much than a sentence similar to...'I like it....I hate it....it needs to be taller...it should have less parking...too bad the owner didn't include store space....that design is bad....the design needs granite instead of glass.....I wish dtla had more towers like other cities do...'

[nmkef]

Illustrating what I was saying about unleased spaces or closed roll-up



Pink highlights are roughly indicating anything that is a prominent block of unused retail/restaurant space or a major construction/renovation that is stalled (Oceanwide, Broadway Trade Center). I did just a quick scan based on memory and street view across the rough central DTLA region. Massive blocks of "bare" street levels in the South Park, Fashion, and Historic Core districts for the most part. One of the biggest red flags I see is that most of these big open spaces are in new developments, whether brand new apartments with big ground floor retail space or some building renovation (i.e. LA Athletic Club on 7th).

Perhaps it's a moot point for some developers whether their space is filled in the next 1, 3, 5, or even 10 years, but I wonder if there is some underlying factor, or lack of incentive, that really drags down on the actual tenancy. Despite the extremely low residential vacancy, the neighborhood is still too difficult to open something new in, or perhaps these newly renovated spaces are just priced far too high for anyone besides some major brand name to build a flagship store in.

DTLA2040 will help to increase density in new building development, but more needs to be done to actually encourage businesses to fill in the new developments perhaps?

[Easy]

Originally Posted by nmkef

Illustrating what I was saying about unleased spaces or closed roll-up

Pink highlights are roughly indicating anything that is a prominent block of unused retail/restaurant space or a major construction/renovation that is stalled (Oceanwide, Broadway Trade Center). I did just a quick scan based on memory and street view across the rough central DTLA region. Massive blocks of "bare" street levels in the South Park, Fashion, and Historic Core districts for the most part. One of the biggest red flags I see is that most of these big open spaces are in new developments, whether brand new apartments with big ground floor retail space or some building renovation (i.e. LA Athletic Club on 7th).

Perhaps it's a moot point for some developers whether their space is filled in the next 1, 3, 5, or even 10 years, but I wonder if there is some underlying factor, or lack of incentive, that really drags down on the actual tenancy. Despite the extremely low residential vacancy, the neighborhood is still too difficult to open something new in, or perhaps these newly renovated spaces are just priced far too high for anyone besides some major brand name to build a flagship store in.

DTLA2040 will help to increase density in new building development, but more needs to be done to actually encourage businesses to fill in the new developments perhaps?

As I understand it, the thinking was that beneficial changes to zoning were going to make property immediately worth more and property owners richer. They wanted to make changes that benefitted the community, but not have this huge transfer or wealth to people that were already wealthy.

But there are changes that make business development easier. There are new policies that will make adaptive reuse easier for both residential, mixed use, and business. They propose changing the age of buildings that qualify from 1974 or older to 25 years old or older. When the adaptive reuse zoning was passed in 1999 the intent was 25 years, but it was a set date instead of a floating one. There are also changes that allow parking garages to be redeveloped as mixed use or business. On the AIA video that I posted a few weeks ago, Omgivning talks about how the Norton Building at 755 Los Angeles street would have been by right and would have been allowed to be taller under the proposed zoning. As it was it barely penciled in, but would have been a no-brainer. They also think that projects will be completed with less value engineering of architectural designs.

Regarding the low number of vacancies, I think that it's artificial. I think that there are lots and lots of people living downtown that stopped paying rent over a year ago. They can't be evicted and obviously have no incentive to move out on their own. I think that's why the occupancy is so high and why buildings stopped offering incentives. The eviction moratorium was extended again for another year. If that is ever allowed to end and evictions are allowed to happen, we are going to see massive numbers of people being evicted.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by nmkef

Illustrating what I was saying about unleased spaces or closed roll-up



Pink highlights are roughly indicating anything that is a prominent block of unused retail/restaurant space or a major construction/renovation that is stalled (Oceanwide, Broadway Trade Center). I did just a quick scan based on memory and street view across the rough central DTLA region. Massive blocks of "bare" street levels in the South Park, Fashion, and Historic Core districts for the most part. One of the biggest red flags I see is that most of these big open spaces are in new developments, whether brand new apartments with big ground floor retail space or some building renovation (i.e. LA Athletic Club on 7th).

Perhaps it's a moot point for some developers whether their space is filled in the next 1, 3, 5, or even 10 years, but I wonder if there is some underlying factor, or lack of incentive, that really drags down on the actual tenancy. Despite the extremely low residential vacancy, the neighborhood is still too difficult to open something new in, or perhaps these newly renovated spaces are just priced far too high for anyone besides some major brand name to build a flagship store in.

DTLA2040 will help to increase density in new building development, but more needs to be done to actually encourage businesses to fill in the new developments perhaps?

I know that several of these spaces have been leased or will be shortly. We are turning the corner

[nmkef]

Yea, as counterpoint to my doomer pic for the South Park neighborhood, the Chase branch on Fig & 11th is just opening up now, and a CVS will be opening "soon" at Flower & 12th. The Pine & Crane restaurant on Grand between 11th and 12th is probably only a couple of months away as well. I do note that many of the open spots on Olympic between Olive & Hill claim "leased", but they have for some months without activity so not really sure what to think of it. One of the storefronts on Olive just south of 9th has been undergoing some construction though after being vacant for months as well.

I agree that a corner appears to be turning, but this is also a long-standing problem before just covid. Good to hear that changes will make adaptive reuse easier, but again many of the open spaces I point out are in either new or finished adaptive reuse projects. Perhaps other city permitting for retail/food licensing needs refurbishment as well.

[citywatch]

Another reason why knowing what's going on in other cities is important: it gives a better sense of what dtla is all about.

Vacancy rates of retail in NYC are very high too....which started to be written about as an issue even before 2020. In that city's case, very high rental rates apparently are making it difficult for many tenants to generate enough income to cover the cost of their monthly rent. So the greater foot traffic in Manhattan isn't offsetting too much unused store space. That's not helped because graffiti is very bad in NYC too.

That's another thing that puts dtla in clearer perspective....I assumed graffiti in dtla was more of an issue because it was closer to hoods where taggers were from....as compared with a gilded, segregated, high income island like central NYC. WRONG! Tagging is visible all over Manhattan island.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by citywatch

Another reason why knowing what's going on in other cities is important: it gives a better sense of what dtla is all about.

Vacancy rates of retail in NYC are very high too....which started to be written about as an issue even before 2020. In that city's case, very high rental rates apparently are making it difficult for many tenants to generate enough income to cover the cost of their monthly rent. So the greater foot traffic in Manhattan isn't offsetting too much unused store space. That's not helped because graffiti is very bad in NYC too.

That's another thing that puts dtla in clearer perspective....I assumed graffiti in dtla was more of an issue because it was closer to hoods where taggers were from....as compared with a gilded, segregated, high income island like central NYC. WRONG! Tagging is visible all over Manhattan island.

We aren't saying that these aren't important concerns, just that this isn't the right place for that discussion.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Easy

just that this isn't the right place for that discussion.

In turn, it would be great for this forum if you posted photos of recent trips to dtla....pwright does that regularly, which is why he helps energize the dtla compilations page. Or you can talk about your experience when visiting some part of dt....it helps to note how busy the sidewalks were, how much business was taking place in a store, or if a long vacant space appears to be prepped for opening.

The best posts are when ppl mention that a parking lot has been closed off or groundbreaking appears to be imminent for a new proj.....talking about what I post or don't post isn't very interesting.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by citywatch

In turn, it would be great for this forum if you posted photos of recent trips to dtla....pwright does that regularly, which is why he helps energize the dtla compilations page. Or you can talk about your experience when visiting some part of dt....it helps to note how busy the sidewalks were, how much business was taking place in a store, or if a long vacant space appears to be prepped for opening.

The best posts are when ppl mention that a parking lot has been closed off or groundbreaking appears to be imminent for a new proj.....talking about what I post or don't post isn't very interesting.

I don't "visit" DTLA, I live in DTLA. And I do post content related to DTLA developments. I posted about the height of Moxy and whether the second hotel was close to groundbreaking. I don't know of any areas that are newly fenced off and I posted why I don't expect to see many until DTLA2040 is passed.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Easy

I don't "visit" DTLA, I live in DTLA.

good to know....I don't associate your ssp screen name with photo updates or eyewitness type comments about dt, so I can't tell who is or isn't in dtla itself....there are so many angles that posts in this forum can take regarding dt, I don't know why posts about other posters interests anyone. If users want this forum to move in another direction, then they should post something about dtla....the irony is when they complain about OT posts by inserting OT posts themselves.

They can segue to some aspect of dt that does interest them. There's enough to talk about....at least I think there is.....such as about the beacon tower proj at 4th & Hill st....



change.org


this proj even got ppl to start a campaign to support it, 5 yrs ago:

https://www.change.org/p/eric-garcetti-s...er-in-dtla-at-the-corner-of-4th-and-hill

Since there's not enough demand in dt right now for new office space, new retail space & new hotel space, anything involving residential is the one thing that a devlpr can be somewhat confident in. But the taco house #1 stand, which was listed as being approved for demo over a yr ago, is still sitting today near the corner of 4th St & Hill.

This devlpt is important to dt because it's near the transit station at the corner of 4th/Hill and is south of Grand central mkt. It has been one of the parking lots in dt that hurts the livelihood of the area. Since new housing is filling up at a good pace in dt....even after the lockdown...there's less excuse for devlpt of new housing to be stopped because of economics.

as for moving to the OT in a forum about dtla: Be careful of what you wish for. You may get it.

Let me add this: DTLA or cities like London don't have what Shanghai has, but who cares? The abandoned super tall mentioned above and the one in Shanghai that's bleeding red ink make the Oceanwide proj on fig seem like a walk in the park.

One more thing: the prestigious Madison Ave part of NYC right now has about almost 40% of its groundfloor retail space sitting vacant.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by nmkef

Yea, as counterpoint to my doomer pic for the South Park neighborhood, the Chase branch on Fig & 11th is just opening up now, and a CVS will be opening "soon" at Flower & 12th. The Pine & Crane restaurant on Grand between 11th and 12th is probably only a couple of months away as well. I do note that many of the open spots on Olympic between Olive & Hill claim "leased", but they have for some months without activity so not really sure what to think of it. One of the storefronts on Olive just south of 9th has been undergoing some construction though after being vacant for months as well.

I agree that a corner appears to be turning, but this is also a long-standing problem before just covid. Good to hear that changes will make adaptive reuse easier, but again many of the open spaces I point out are in either new or finished adaptive reuse projects. Perhaps other city permitting for retail/food licensing needs refurbishment as well.

That's good news about 11th and 12th.
A few weeks ago, I was on Pico and Hope/Grand? Starbucks and that little nook was decently vibrant for a Saturday morning. South Park defintely has alot of potential, it reminds me of parts of South/West Loop in Chicago. Little restaurants and shops popping up here and there, gradually filling in those vacancies.

Believe it or not, the south Loop in Chicago had a retail/restaurant problem for years, and they had more residential than South Park in LA. They had a hard time getting a grocery store.
So for our scale, it's not doing too bad.

The bad thing about downtown LA is all the vibrant areas aren't connected together. Broadway/Spring and 6-9th streets aren't close to Little Tokyo, LA Live, so they don't feed off each other like in many cities.
The arts district is isolated from most of downtown. So is Chinatown.

It can give an impression not alot is going on to visitors, which isn't necessarily true. As is the case for the city, downtown is spread out.

If downtown was more compact, and you could cross the street from Chinatown to Little Tokyo to the Arts District to Grand Ave to South Park to Historic core (like a SF or NYC) people would think differently about the place.

[Easy]

^DTLA does have gaps, but I don’t think that it needs to be more compact, rather the gaps need to be filled in. There are existing plans to fill in many of those gaps at least from Pico to 1st and Fig to Main. LT will still be somewhat disconnected although the regional connector will make it feel more connected.

As a downtown resident for over 5 years, I don’t feel much connection to the Arts District. MacArthur Park and Koreatown feel more connected to downtown than the Arts District to me. That’s what happens when people define areas by where freeways travel rather than by walking and public transportation.

[nmkef]

The LA Streetcar project appears to still be alive, though obviously moving very slow.

With the completion of our federal environmental process in 2019, the project has secured both CEQA and NEPA clearance. The LA Streetcar is now shovel-ready as a result of the advance engineering, design and utility work achieved over the last several years. As we work to lock down final funding commitments, utility relocation could begin as soon as 2021, with project construction and testing from 2022-2025, followed by the beginning of passenger service.

Looking at their website, feasibility study was initially done in July 2006, so only 20 years later we might see something

It would address some of the connection issue you mention, and the regional connector should help some more with getting to Little Tokyo and the north end of the Arts District. Not really sure how they are going to solve connectivity with that new block of development in the Arts District we're seeing east of the ROW. Even the ROW development is pretty isolated and really requires a car or annoying uber/lyft to get to.



Their last "project update" from the end of 2020 did mention how they considered adjusting the project map or pursuing an accelerated timeline... I'm not super hopeful of anything soon given how infrastructure projects in the US generally go

Looking at the map does remind me of the DASH bus lines. I've never actually taken any, just used bikeshare or the actual metro to get around - has anyone actually found them to be effective in getting around DTLA?