PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by HBus

You may not care for Atlanta’s climate. However, it’s an undeniable fact that Atlanta’s milder climate, milder winters especially, has attracted a large number of migrants from the Northeast and Midwest.

Atlanta has a huge hub airport, is a major convention destination, is a major logistics center, is a prime location for corporate relocations, etc. because of its location.

The original topic regarded Black people moving from the Philadelphia to the Southeast. They aren’t moving to city. They’re moving to suburban Atlanta. Low real estate prices and low property taxes in the suburbs south and east of the city are a huge draw.

Black people were denied access to suburban housing for decades. As suburban access opened for Black folks in the 1990s suburban Atlanta had abundant cheap undeveloped land and still does today. You can buy new or recent detached SFH construction at a lower cost per sq foot than what you would pay for a 50 - 60 year old house in eastern Delco. Because the school districts are countywide the property taxes are much lower and you don’t end up with tiny and financially unsustainable districts like Penn Wood.

Black migration to the Southeast has nothing to do with the quality of government which was the original assertion. It’s been driven by climate, cost, and the presence of lots of other Black people. The ability for Black people to move into suburbs in which they are not a distinct minority is a huge draw in its own right.

Thank you for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense; I clearly hadn’t been following the discussion that closely as you make some cogent points.

I just associate Atlanta’s summers as being killer. I’m sure their mild winters are nice but I wouldn’t trade that for the dog days of summer.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Huh?



HUH?



May or may not be true, but a large selling point of Philadelphia is it's incredibly low cost of living for its location on the east coast.

philadelphia more affordable than the large cities/metros in the NE part of the country. Its not more affordable vs southern metro areas and even if costs are comparable houses down there are newer and larger for the same money. Migration from north to south has been going on for a few decades now and many of the urban "delights" that people on a forum like this tout as positives are not that important to many middle and upper middle class people. They are OK with car dependency and they have no desire to live in dense urban environment. Philadelphia's inability to retain middle class blacks is a major factor in its modest rate of population growth (most driven by immigrants) in the last 20 years. At this point I think the city is holding its ground or slowly growing in white population- not the case for black population.

[summersm343]

Permits Issued For Retail And Amenity Buildings At Mixed-Use Complex At 918 North Delaware Avenue









Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/09/permits-...rthern-liberties-north-philadelphia.html

[summersm343]

Groundbreaking Held For 142-Unit Rental Development At 4300 Ridge Avenue In East Falls







Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/09/groundbr...n-east-falls-northwest-philadelphia.html

[mcgrath618]

Man, what a disappointment 4300 Ridge turned out to be compared to the original renderings.

[EastSideHBG]

RE: the One Liberty Observation deck, this is a strange one for me because outside of rent how much does it cost to run something like this? Yes, I get that you need visitors to make it worthwhile but the overhead is so low and as others have said the advertising for this was nonexistent and if that were better it could be a nice draw and one of our main attractions.

And I saw some comments elsewhere that admission was too expensive but then others would throw out yeah but NYC costs X, yeah but Chicago costs Y but I don't think that is a good way to look at it and keep this cheap and well worth the price of admission and the visitors will come.

And OL just screams Philadelphia and is iconic, this is really a shame.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Thank you for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense; I clearly hadn’t been following the discussion that closely as you make some cogent points.

I just associate Atlanta’s summers as being killer. I’m sure their mild winters are nice but I wouldn’t trade that for the dog days of summer.

Anymore there isn't that much difference between ATL and PHL in the summer, at least psychologically e.g. 90F w/ 60% humidity vs 90F w/ 70% humidity, are you really going to notice that much of a difference? And ATL is the highest elevated city east of the Mississippi so that helps a bit too. And as far as Fall/Winter/Spring are concerned it's a damn near perfect climate for most so if the only thing you want to avoid is a brutal winter it's a solid choice and you still get a lot of the benefits you would up here: fall foliage, mountains when you want them, beaches to drive to when you want them...

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Man, what a disappointment 4300 Ridge turned out to be compared to the original renderings.

The back side is actually an improvement I think. In the original, it was sort of a heavy green color and looked rather clunky.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

RE: the One Liberty Observation deck, this is a strange one for me because outside of rent how much does it cost to run something like this? Yes, I get that you need visitors to make it worthwhile but the overhead is so low and as others have said the advertising for this was nonexistent and if that were better it could be a nice draw and one of our main attractions.

And I saw some comments elsewhere that admission was too expensive but then others would throw out yeah but NYC costs X, yeah but Chicago costs Y but I don't think that is a good way to look at it and keep this cheap and well worth the price of admission and the visitors will come.

And OL just screams Philadelphia and is iconic, this is really a shame.


Anymore there isn't that much difference between ATL and PHL in the summer, at least psychologically e.g. 90F w/ 60% humidity vs 90F w/ 70% humidity, are you really going to notice that much of a difference? And ATL is the highest elevated city east of the Mississippi so that helps a bit too. And as far as Fall/Winter/Spring are concerned it's a damn near perfect climate for most so if the only thing you want to avoid is a brutal winter it's a solid choice and you still get a lot of the benefits you would up here: fall foliage, mountains when you want them, beaches to drive to when you want them...

I have no idea what the rent for this was, but it could be pretty high when you consider that it almost certainly required a dedicated express elevator.

[iheartphilly]

They had a good run for 5 years. Maybe someone different will take it on in the future as a tourist endeavor if/when space changes hands again.

[Frontst17]

I’ve been up in the observation deck a few times. A little pricey for a nice view but that’s just me. People were thrilled by it and there was always a line and seemed to be a vast majority of tourists. They were finding out about it somehow. I do hope it comes back.

[skyhigh07]

Anyone know anything about the 12 story Homewood Suites project at Callowhill and 15th? Just walked by and there’s a sign with pictures up. Not sure if it’s been up for awhile or not. Haven’t really seen any postings about it online...

[KDD]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

The back side is actually an improvement I think. In the original, it was sort of a heavy green color and looked rather clunky.

I used to walk by it frequently. It looked dated the day it opened. It reminded of like a 1950s airport office building. The area has such potential. It is a shame Trolley Car Cafe closed, that was great. I do like the Black Squirrel that opened up, despite it being way overpriced.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

RE: the One Liberty Observation deck, this is a strange one for me because outside of rent how much does it cost to run something like this? Yes, I get that you need visitors to make it worthwhile but the overhead is so low and as others have said the advertising for this was nonexistent and if that were better it could be a nice draw and one of our main attractions.

And I saw some comments elsewhere that admission was too expensive but then others would throw out yeah but NYC costs X, yeah but Chicago costs Y but I don't think that is a good way to look at it and keep this cheap and well worth the price of admission and the visitors will come.

And OL just screams Philadelphia and is iconic, this is really a shame.

The Empire State Building Observatory is marketed around the city and included in the New York Tourist Pass program. It would be cool if Visit Philly added this to their roster of things to see, or if those Philly sightseeing buses included this as a stop. Even Penn and Drexel should add this as a student activity when new to the city. Drexel used to push visits to the Zoo back when I was there.

My hope is that another entity takes over in the coming years, the space is already fit out perfectly.

[SEFTA]

Sorry but I find this, at least, pretty wonderful.
I've not seen the other proposal.
I'd like to.

Originally Posted by summersm343

Groundbreaking Held For 142-Unit Rental Development At 4300 Ridge Avenue In East Falls




Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/09/groundbr...n-east-falls-northwest-philadelphia.html

[mcgrath618]

Don’t get me wrong, that one isn’t bad. I just seem to remember a much older rendering with a really bold design. Very curvy, brighter orange colors.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Don’t get me wrong, that one isn’t bad. I just seem to remember a much older rendering with a really bold design. Very curvy, brighter orange colors.

The original proposal was designed by Onion Flats (and called Ridge Flats). Grasso was brought in as a partner. Then he assumed full control and neutered the original vision into this box. No matter what, it's a massive benefit for this intersection, but man, what could have been.

[The 700 Block]

Plans for the 7619 Germantown Ave in Mt Airy. Former site of the Trolley Car Diner. 114 units with ground floor commercial. Nice looking design that creates a link between Chestnut Hill and Mt Airy.

Full presentation going in front of Mt Airy BID tomorrow

http://www.mtairybid.com/uploads/3/7/7/9/37799711/presentation.pdf

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mvQV3H]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mvUpRR]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mvPDeP]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mvPEZC]

[mcgrath618]

I loved the Trolley Car Diner growing up... but holy shit. What a superb design.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by HBus

You may not care for Atlanta’s climate. However, it’s an undeniable fact that Atlanta’s milder climate, milder winters especially, has attracted a large number of migrants from the Northeast and Midwest.

Atlanta has a huge hub airport, is a major convention destination, is a major logistics center, is a prime location for corporate relocations, etc. because of its location.

The original topic regarded Black people moving from the Philadelphia to the Southeast. They aren’t moving to city. They’re moving to suburban Atlanta. Low real estate prices and low property taxes in the suburbs south and east of the city are a huge draw.

Black people were denied access to suburban housing for decades. As suburban access opened for Black folks in the 1990s suburban Atlanta had abundant cheap undeveloped land and still does today. You can buy new or recent detached SFH construction at a lower cost per sq foot than what you would pay for a 50 - 60 year old house in eastern Delco. Because the school districts are countywide the property taxes are much lower and you don’t end up with tiny and financially unsustainable districts like Penn Wood.

Black migration to the Southeast has nothing to do with the quality of government which was the original assertion. It’s been driven by climate, cost, and the presence of lots of other Black people. The ability for Black people to move into suburbs in which they are not a distinct minority is a huge draw in its own right.

I don't disagree with you but I assure you if you compare the process of opening a (small) business in Atlanta with one of opening a small business in Philadelphia, it would be literally night and day. There's an energy and ecosystem of support in Atlanta related to many more things than the fact that you can buy a 4 bedroom house in Smyrna for under 300K.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

RE: the One Liberty Observation deck, this is a strange one for me because outside of rent how much does it cost to run something like this? Yes, I get that you need visitors to make it worthwhile but the overhead is so low and as others have said the advertising for this was nonexistent and if that were better it could be a nice draw and one of our main attractions.

And I saw some comments elsewhere that admission was too expensive but then others would throw out yeah but NYC costs X, yeah but Chicago costs Y but I don't think that is a good way to look at it and keep this cheap and well worth the price of admission and the visitors will come.

And OL just screams Philadelphia and is iconic, this is really a shame.


Anymore there isn't that much difference between ATL and PHL in the summer, at least psychologically e.g. 90F w/ 60% humidity vs 90F w/ 70% humidity, are you really going to notice that much of a difference? And ATL is the highest elevated city east of the Mississippi so that helps a bit too. And as far as Fall/Winter/Spring are concerned it's a damn near perfect climate for most so if the only thing you want to avoid is a brutal winter it's a solid choice and you still get a lot of the benefits you would up here: fall foliage, mountains when you want them, beaches to drive to when you want them...

Honestly who cares if Philadelphia doesn't have an observation deck. It's another one of those 'what about us' moments. No one goes to a city for an observation deck. It literally in no way is any indication of the dynamism of a city. In fact, I think they're super corny. This one was shoved into a space that was never intended to serve such a purpose and one could argue more than anything that might be why it failed.