Broadway Subway - Millennium Line Extension to Arbutus | U/C - Page 45

Migrant_Coconut · #**881** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 8:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooknose

Please tell me that Vancouver's transit progress is there for some other reason than virtue signalling , political announcements.

Is this all "just" about the next election bump?

Just as much local politics as provincial/federal: the UBC extension has to run through the most reactionary part of the city, and one that's very susceptible to arguments that a streetcar will (somehow) do for the rest of the century.

Probably best to wait for a bit while the current one is still in-progress, let support build up. Besides, the North Shore needs a SkyTrain too, and they'd actually like to have one.

aberdeen5698 · #**882** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 1:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Probably best to wait for a bit while the current one is still in-progress, let support build up. Besides, the North Shore needs a SkyTrain too, and they'd actually like to have one.

...and the residents where the line would run (sea otters, beavers, seals and orcas) aren't as likely to object...

jollyburger · #**883** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 2:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooknose

You know .. this is one of those "offhand comments" that may be far more revealing than one first thinks.

Please tell me that Vancouver's transit progress is there for some other reason than virtue signalling , political announcements.

Is this all "just" about the next election bump?

I doubt even the NIMBYs will be able to block it with support from UBC and First Nations. The only real news waiting for the extension is funding even if there are a few tweaks to the routing either to the new Jericho Beach project or on the campus itself.

WarrenC12 · #**884** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 3:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Probably best to wait for a bit while the current one is still in-progress, let support build up. Besides, the North Shore needs a SkyTrain too, and they'd actually like to have one.

Sort of. Didn't portions of the NS object to even a rapid bus?

Alex Mackinnon · #**885** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 4:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Sort of. Didn't portions of the NS object to even a rapid bus?

Yep. West Van. I wouldn't be surprised if the residents of Shaugnessy and Kerrisdale don't care much for the skytrain either though.

It's pretty easy to satisfy that desire to not go to West Van by going through East Van and taking the Second Narrows. In my opinion, that also makes for a much more useful line.

WarrenC12 · #**886** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Yep. West Van. I wouldn't be surprised if the residents of Shaugnessy and Kerrisdale don't care much for the skytrain either though.

It's pretty easy to satisfy that desire to not go to West Van by going through East Van and taking the Second Narrows. In my opinion, that also makes for a much more useful line.

Yes I can see that as a good line that goes S to Brentwood area to connect with the M-Line.

It's still far behind a UBC extension IMO.

Tvisforme · #**887** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 6:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

...Besides, the North Shore needs a SkyTrain too, and they'd actually like to have one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Sort of. Didn't portions of the NS object to even a rapid bus?

I'd suggest that while North Vancouver residents would like a SkyTrain line, there's probably not as much desire to add the population that said line would bring or require. That might manifest itself as acceptance for more RapidBus instead of SkyTrain, trading some convenience for overall lower density. The only line that makes sense for realistic population growth trends would be similar to the R2; it will be a very, very long time before the North Shore's population density higher up the hill warrants a massive investment in SkyTrain-level rapid transit. I'm not expecting to see it in my lifetime or even that of my children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

...It's pretty easy to satisfy that desire to not go to West Van by going through East Van and taking the Second Narrows. In my opinion, that also makes for a much more useful line.

I'd agree that the eastern (and western, if you consider a First Narrows tunnel) routes probably make more sense. The geography of the harbour makes a direct line from downtown Vancouver to central Lonsdale difficult and expensive, while not really saving much time over the existing SeaBus route given the short distance. As discussed elsewhere, the eastern route offers the opportunity to feed into the existing lines while adding a new north-south (Boundary/Willingdon) or east-west (Hastings) line to benefit the much, much larger populations of Vancouver and Burnaby.

Migrant_Coconut · #**888** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I'd suggest that while North Vancouver residents would like a SkyTrain line, there's probably not as much desire to add the population that said line would bring or require. That might manifest itself as acceptance for more RapidBus instead of SkyTrain, trading some convenience for overall lower density. The only line that makes sense for realistic population growth trends would be similar to the R2; it will be a very, very long time before the North Shore's population density higher up the hill warrants a massive investment in SkyTrain-level rapid transit. I'm not expecting to see it in my lifetime or even that of my children.

Definitely not the Upper Levels, but the Lower Levels (i.e. Park Royal-Phibbs) may be densified enough in a decade or two to justify most of the options in the previous study; the CNV alone was the size of Fleetwood plus Langley City five years ago.

jollyburger · #**889** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 10:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Definitely not the Upper Levels, but the Lower Levels (i.e. Park Royal-Phibbs) may be densified enough in a decade or two to justify most of the options in the previous study; the CNV alone was the size of Fleetwood plus Langley City five years ago.

That seems doubtful. Almost every municipality is against much density so there is going to be mostly 5-6 storey condos built along those routes over the next decade or two. Even the Yellow/Purple lines will mostly run along land that is either industrial or constrained for much development.

Fleetwood 62K + Langley City 25K. CNV is 52,898

Migrant_Coconut · #**890** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 11:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

That seems doubtful. Almost every municipality is against much density so there is going to be mostly 5-6 storey condos built along those routes over the next decade or two. Even the Yellow/Purple lines will mostly run along land that is either industrial or constrained for much development.

Fleetwood 62K + Langley City 25K. CNV is 52,898

Going to point out that Cambie was mostly 5-6 floors for the first few years of the Canada Line. And opposition is mostly just West Van; you've got Lonsdale, Maplewood, Phibbs, and potentially Cap Mall (no news on Park & Tilford) all looking at some form of density, so there's at least some business case.

That's the city population; wiki's giving me an urban population for the CNV of 84,412 (not to be confused with the DNV's 85,395).

MIPS · #**891** Posted **Sep 16, 2021, 11:59 PM**

Don't eve start to discuss SkyTrain plans on the north shore for another 20 years. Right now and in the future it is currently a fantasy and will stay that way.

ilikeredheads · #**892** Posted **Sep 17, 2021, 1:07 AM**

yeah, any discussion on the north shore should belong in the fantasy thread

FarmerHaight · #**893** Posted **Sep 17, 2021, 4:19 AM**

Translink 2050 includes the Skytrain extension to UBC, and lines down Hastings and Willingdon, and a leg to the North Shore. So at most these projects are 30 years away, but they won't all be built at once. If North Shore is the last priority (wouldn't it at least be ahead of Willingdon???) your timeline of breaking ground in 20 years seems about right.

Tvisforme · #**894** Posted **Sep 17, 2021, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Going to point out that Cambie was mostly 5-6 floors for the first few years of the Canada Line. And opposition is mostly just West Van; you've got Lonsdale, Maplewood, Phibbs, and potentially Cap Mall (no news on Park & Tilford) all looking at some form of density, so there's at least some business case.

I don't want to suggest that North Vancouver residents reject mass transit the way that West Vancouver does. However, I do think there is a certain reluctance to commit to large-scale density increases due to the perceived threat to what makes the North Shore special. That may factor into acceptance for a high-capacity rapid transit line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That's the city population; wiki's giving me an urban population for the CNV of 84,412 (not to be confused with the DNV's 85,395).

I see that as well, but I have no idea what they're referring to. Statistics Canada estimates the City's population to be 58,985 in 2020; the District and West Vancouver are estimated to be 89,767 and 43,805 respectively. The 84,412 Wikipedia lists under "urban" must include part of the District's adjacent population (and perhaps the reserves?) as there just isn't anything else to draw from.

Jimbo604 · #**895** Posted **Sep 23, 2021, 2:12 PM**

Translink typing into a planning document that they want Skytrain to extend to A,B,C is still fantasy.

This is the Broadway subway thread, keep that stuff in the transit fantasy thread.

VancouverOfTheFuture · #**896** Posted **Sep 26, 2021, 6:01 PM**

i drove down broadway last night, past all the future stations. and wow, they have been busy. busier than i thought. so yeah, we should be changing this Broadway Extension to U/C i would say...

the title should be something like this;

Millennium Line | Broadway Extension - U/C | UBC Extension - Proposed

cganuelas1995 · #**897** Posted **Sep 26, 2021, 8:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i drove down broadway last night, past all the future stations. and wow, they have been busy. busier than i thought. so yeah, we should be changing this Broadway Extension to U/C i would say...

the title should be something like this;

Millennium Line | Broadway Extension - U/C | UBC Extension - Proposed

Yes please. We totally should. Less confusing.