Quality of Canadian urbanism

[Hali87]

Another related factor is the history of department stores in the Halifax area. Eaton's and Zellers each had historic downtown locations, but I don't think Hudson's Bay ever did. Gottingen Street had a few department stores and as mentioned Scotia Square had a Woolco. By the 90s there was no downtown department store though, and there still isn't.

West End Mall originally grew up around a Simpson's department store; by the 90s it had the main Bay location and a Sears, while Halifax Shopping Centre (across the street) had an Eaton's. Zellers anchored several malls as well, before the big shift toward power centres.

At this point I think there's just one Hudson's Bay store left (at Mic Mac in Dartmouth) and then a bunch of WalMarts scattered around the urban area. I don't think the Peninsula even has a Giant Tiger or anything of that scale. So that's another factor that's affected the trajectory of boutique storefront retail in and around Downtown Halifax.

Worth noting that until fairly recently it was common for people in Halifax to make trips to New Brunswick or Maine to access stores that we didn't have here. This started to turn around in the early 2000s but for a long time the retail options around Halifax felt pretty limited.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Another related factor is the history of department stores in the Halifax area. Eaton's and Zellers each had historic downtown locations, but I don't think Hudson's Bay ever did. Gottingen Street had a few department stores and as mentioned Scotia Square had a Woolco. By the 90s there was no downtown department store though, and there still isn't.

West End Mall originally grew up around a Simpson's department store; by the 90s it had the main Bay location and a Sears, while Halifax Shopping Centre (across the street) had an Eaton's. Zellers anchored several malls as well, before the big shift toward power centres.

At this point I think there's just one Hudson's Bay store left (at Mic Mac in Dartmouth) and then a bunch of WalMarts scattered around the urban area. I don't think the Peninsula even has a Giant Tiger or anything of that scale. So that's another factor that's affected the trajectory of boutique storefront retail in and around Downtown Halifax.

Worth noting that until fairly recently it was common for people in Halifax to make trips to New Brunswick or Maine to access stores that we didn't have here. This started to turn around in the early 2000s but for a long time the retail options around Halifax felt pretty limited.

Wasn't there a rumoured Simons to open downtown? On Barrington?

I have heard that regarding the lack of department stores in Halifax and that they just didn't have as much of an established footing in the metro area. What even are the anchors at HSC? A Walmart? I know Micmac has the only Bay left.

That is really interesting that New Brunswick had better shopping options than Halifax. I never would have guessed! What sorts of things did they have that NS didn't? Maine makes sense - the US just in general has stuff we don't.

Are there any Superstores (as in "The Real Canadian Superstore", not "Atlantic Superstore") in HRM? In Western Canada that's the closest competitor to Walmart, I'd say.

[urbandreamer]

Is Mississauga more urban than Calgary?

[ue]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Is Mississauga more urban than Calgary?

Yes, but Okotoks is more urban than Mississauga.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by ue

Are there any Superstores (as in "The Real Canadian Superstore", not "Atlantic Superstore") in HRM? In Western Canada that's the closest competitor to Walmart, I'd say.

No, Atlantic Superstore is the regional name of the same chain so not sure why there'd be both.

[ue]

A lot of the Atlantic Superstores look no bigger than a Sobeys or Loblaws.

[zahav]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but since this about Urbanism I thought it fit..

The Vitality Index: Measuring the pace of our return to downtowns

As the calendar turns to September, companies across North America are faced with a long-anticipated question: is a return to the office still on track? If it is delayed, for how much longer? Will office occupancy ever look the same again?

There are, of course, no certain answers to these questions. COVID-19 continues to throw curve balls our way, with wide variations in infection rates. At the same time, the dynamic between employers and employees regarding where to work has shifted, likely for good.

But what if there was a real-time window into exactly what was happening in major cities and leading industries across North America? What if we could see the volume of foot traffic updated constantly and compare it to pre-pandemic levels?

Now, you can. Avison Young has launched The Vitality Index, a database that creates daily foot traffic estimates from representative office occupiers located in 20+ different cities.

This list counts cities in Canada and the US only. Out of the top 5 cities that have apparently "fared best" (meaning their decline from pre-covid is the least), 3 are in Canada. Calgary at #2 (-57.9%), Edmonton at #3 (-63.3%) and Vancouver at #5 (-67.5%). Two Canadian cities also "fared worst" and came out in the bottom 5. Toronto at #19 (-85.5%) and coming in dead last of all 23 cities in the study is Ottawa (-89.5%).

Not sure if these numbers mean anything to people on the ground in these places, but curious to know thoughts. Obvious things that help Calgary *and Edmonton's?) rankings are the already bad office situation prior to COVID. They were already in a slump, so there wasn't as far to fall. Also, the large proportion of tech and government jobs in Ottawa probably meant way more people could easily transition to WFH. But there's probably a lot of variables. Regardless, I hope the downtowns recover more, as the article says:

“We need downtowns. We need offices without a doubt, that does not go away,” says Botting. “But the scale and purpose of these offices does change. It's going to scale up or scale down for any organization based on business purpose, culture, how people work and, ultimately, the role of the office.”

[ue]

Originally Posted by zahav

I wasn't sure where to post this, but since this about Urbanism I thought it fit..

The Vitality Index: Measuring the pace of our return to downtowns

As the calendar turns to September, companies across North America are faced with a long-anticipated question: is a return to the office still on track? If it is delayed, for how much longer? Will office occupancy ever look the same again?

There are, of course, no certain answers to these questions. COVID-19 continues to throw curve balls our way, with wide variations in infection rates. At the same time, the dynamic between employers and employees regarding where to work has shifted, likely for good.

But what if there was a real-time window into exactly what was happening in major cities and leading industries across North America? What if we could see the volume of foot traffic updated constantly and compare it to pre-pandemic levels?

Now, you can. Avison Young has launched The Vitality Index, a database that creates daily foot traffic estimates from representative office occupiers located in 20+ different cities.

This list counts cities in Canada and the US only. Out of the top 5 cities that have apparently "fared best" (meaning their decline from pre-covid is the least), 3 are in Canada. Calgary at #2 (-57.9%), Edmonton at #3 (-63.3%) and Vancouver at #5 (-67.5%). Two Canadian cities also "fared worst" and came out in the bottom 5. Toronto at #19 (-85.5%) and coming in dead last of all 23 cities in the study is Ottawa (-89.5%).

Not sure if these numbers mean anything to people on the ground in these places, but curious to know thoughts. Obvious things that help Calgary *and Edmonton's?) rankings are the already bad office situation prior to COVID. They were already in a slump, so there wasn't as far to fall. Also, the large proportion of tech and government jobs in Ottawa probably meant way more people could easily transition to WFH. But there's probably a lot of variables. Regardless, I hope the downtowns recover more, as the article says:

“We need downtowns. We need offices without a doubt, that does not go away,” says Botting. “But the scale and purpose of these offices does change. It's going to scale up or scale down for any organization based on business purpose, culture, how people work and, ultimately, the role of the office.”

This isn't as accurate for Edmonton as Calgary. The slump was much, much more noticeable in Calgary, whereas Edmonton just kept chugging along. In recent years Edmonton has been growing slightly faster, perhaps indicative of this. The city doesn't have half empty Brookfields lying around.

I'm kind of wondering if this says more about covid responses in different provinces and cities. Alberta and BC have been more or less a lot more 'open' for much more of the pandemic than Ontario.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by ue

Wasn't there a rumoured Simons to open downtown? On Barrington?

I have heard that regarding the lack of department stores in Halifax and that they just didn't have as much of an established footing in the metro area. What even are the anchors at HSC? A Walmart? I know Micmac has the only Bay left.

That is really interesting that New Brunswick had better shopping options than Halifax. I never would have guessed! What sorts of things did they have that NS didn't? Maine makes sense - the US just in general has stuff we don't.

Are there any Superstores (as in "The Real Canadian Superstore", not "Atlantic Superstore") in HRM? In Western Canada that's the closest competitor to Walmart, I'd say.

There was a Simons as a hypothetical store in some of the renderings for renos at Maritime Centre but I don't know if anything was ever announced beyond that. I think they'd do well here (and that location could work).

HSC had a Sears until recently; I think that's gone and I'm not sure what (if anything) replaced it. There's a Wal-Mart, Sobeys, and Winners, but they're physically separate from the main mall. The "anchors" at this point would be specialty retailers like the Apple Store that don't have many/any other local locations, and larger-scale clothing stores like H&M. Simon's would actually make a lot of sense at HSC if they don't end up on Barrington.

I don't remember specifics but New Brunswick tended to get a lot of American clothing brands before we did (I think American Eagle was one example). They probably still have us beat when it comes to fishing/hunting type stuff, and though I'm not sure it's something that people travel for, there are a lot of Quebec/Franco-Canadian brands that are mainstream in New Brunswick but mostly absent in NS.

The Real Atlantic Superstore is basically the same as the Loblaws format - there are a couple larger ones here that sell clothing and a few other random things but they're still mostly grocery-oriented.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ue

Yes, but Okotoks is more urban than Mississauga.

Well it figures. There are a number of things to do in Okotoks. Has it absorbed Calgary yet?

[KnoxfordGuy]

The current state of downtown malls in NB are bleak. Downtown malls in Fredericton (Kings Place), Saint John (Brunswick Square) and Moncton (the now demolished Highfield Square) never sucked the energy out of these downtowns. The remaining downtown malls are dying but the shopping experience in downtown Fredericton and Saint John are vibrant.

[hipster duck]

^Is there a downtown mall in a city smaller than Halifax/Victoria that isn't bleak?

Indoor malls basically only survive on fashion retailing, and metro regions under about 300k can only really afford one location of every major fashion retailer. the Gaps, H&Ms, American Eagles of this world, etc. If they have a choice between a CF or Oxford-owned suburban flagship mall, or the downtown mall, they'll almost always pick the suburban mall.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

^Is there a downtown mall in a city smaller than Halifax/Victoria that isn't bleak?

Indoor malls basically only survive on fashion retailing, and metro regions under about 300k can only really afford one location of every major fashion retailer. the Gaps, H&Ms, American Eagles of this world, etc. If they have a choice between a CF or Oxford-owned suburban flagship mall, or the downtown mall, they'll almost always pick the suburban mall.

I haven't been in them in a while to see how they're doing, but the downtown malls in Regina and Saskatoon are the only main regional malls in those cities... the competitors are small neighbourhood malls anchored by supermarkets, and Wal Mart/Home Depot type power centres.

Those cities managed to avoid the crazy 80s mall overbuilding that happened in so many other places.

[SignalHillHiker]

We never did the downtown mall thing in St. John’s. Atlantic Place is the closest we’ve come and that’s always been mostly courtrooms and offices with a few frequently-rotating food court-style restaurants on ground level. Today I think the third-floor gym is the most active thing in there.

We have two main suburban malls - the Avalon just outside the core, by far the primary mall in the province, and the Village. The Village is struggling. A good chunk of it is now sit-down restaurants, office space, a gym, and a call centre. The Avalon still does great. If it’s open, it’s packed - any brands people from away would know, if we have it, that’s where it is. It also has the city’s main cinema/Rec Room and a gym. Some of the local stores in there are the same as when I was a kid lol But every year it seems to get a little bigger.

It doesn’t appear to have impacted downtown except in that we have basically no national/international stores downtown. They all go to the mall. It’d be nice to have, say, the H&M or Sephora downtown but it’s not like the storefronts are empty. They’re just local - lots of tourist ones, but also ones that import locally popular brands like Hunter and Blundstone and Skogstad, etc.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

It doesn’t appear to have impacted downtown except in that we have basically no national/international stores downtown. They all go to the mall. It’d be nice to have, say, the H&M or Sephora downtown but it’s not like the storefronts are empty. They’re just local - lots of tourist ones, but also ones that import locally popular brands like Hunter and Blundstone and Skogstad, etc.

Winnipeg and St. John's are similar in that regard. The only non-local retail chains downtown (the few that remain) are in malls... there is next to nothing in downtown storefronts. I can practically rattle off a list of the ones that are still there. MEC, Birks, Hakim Optical, Dollarama, Dollar Tree, Giant Tiger... I think that's pretty well it. Everything else downtown is either local, or in a mall.

By contrast, Saskatoon has a fair number of national/international brands with a presence on the street.

[someone123]

Halifax always had a lot of mom and pops including stores that carried higher end brands (as SHH mentions above for St. John's). At times it didn't have specific chains, although I'm not sure what those are. The latest Maine store people are excited about is L.L. Bean but I don't think they are common anywhere in Canada. There must be people who say the shopping is better in some Niagara outlets on the US side than in the GTA.

The mini malls with storefronts aged pretty well. Scotia Square was poorly designed but people still like the food court for its non-chain restaurants. Some of the mini malls have the higher value retailers in the street-facing storefronts and then inside are places like grocery stores and Dollarama.

Another interesting trend is that the smaller retailers have been relocating to the North End while chains open up downtown. Some people look back on nostalgia to the days when small businesses could afford major downtown spaces but that was not really a good time for the city. Years ago a local landlord said his downtown space was nearly chosen for an Apple store that ended up moving into a mall. I wonder if it would have ended up downtown had they instead moved to town in 2019.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ue

That is really interesting that New Brunswick had better shopping options than Halifax. I never would have guessed! What sorts of things did they have that NS didn't? Maine makes sense - the US just in general has stuff we don't.

I don't think i'd go as far as to say that NB had better shopping options than Halifax. It's been viewed as a shopping destination for NBers for decades.

Back in the 2000s and even early 2010s there would be bus trips that would go from NB to Maine for day/weekends for shopping excursions to Bangor or Portland. After 9/11 and passport requirements those trips began to be wound down, and once shopping online became a thing the bus trips vanished entirely.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

^Is there a downtown mall in a city smaller than Halifax/Victoria that isn't bleak?

I didn't find the downtown mall in Charlottetown bleak when I was there less than a decade ago. It wasn't particularly remarkable but it was fine.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Hali87

There was a Simons as a hypothetical store in some of the renderings for renos at Maritime Centre but I don't know if anything was ever announced beyond that. I think they'd do well here (and that location could work).

HSC had a Sears until recently; I think that's gone and I'm not sure what (if anything) replaced it. There's a Wal-Mart, Sobeys, and Winners, but they're physically separate from the main mall. The "anchors" at this point would be specialty retailers like the Apple Store that don't have many/any other local locations, and larger-scale clothing stores like H&M. Simon's would actually make a lot of sense at HSC if they don't end up on Barrington.

I had heard rumours years ago of Simons looking at the vacated Sears at HSC. I'm shocked at how long that giant anchor space has sat empty, wonder if there are plans to convert it to additional mall space? Guess HSC still draws an audience with Apple, Zara and H&M among others.

The former Sears would make a great space for some higher-end furniture retailers like Pottery Barn, CB2, EQ3 and others to support the booming real estate market.

[ScreamingViking]

Street retail in Hamilton has been creeping back to life over the last decade or so, largely with independent stores (in fact probably all of them are). The restaurant scene has also flourished.

The darkest days of downtown were from the late 1990s to about 2010, though the decline was obvious much earlier. Downtown employment has grown, and now that new residential projects are happening the market for retail is looking up. But the life on most streets is still pretty sad most days, and for most of the day. The biggest success in revitalizing a street is James, the main north-south arterial... it was changed from 1-way to 2-way flow almost 20 years ago and really rebounded to become a great pedestrian restaurant/shopping strip. It helps that it wasn't decimated by demolitions the way other parts of downtown were, so the old building stock was more intact.

Jackson Square, the big mall, had more than 200 stores and services in the early eighties. When things started to get bad downtown, what was the solution? Build another mall!! So the Eaton Centre was born, adding another 100+ retail units including some higher-end clothing stores (and a new Eatons). When that chain went out of business, the mall remained as the Hamilton City Centre, but most of the chains eventually abandoned it and it's been home mainly to discount stores and mobile phone outlets. A large multi-tower condo development is now planned for the site.

Jackson Sq. is pretty sad too. Aside from the grocery store, movie theatres, and a few other retail draws, it's seems dominated by discounters. It really needs a re-think and refresh, but the property's owner has been reluctant to invest much of anything into it. Opening it up to connect the inside spaces with the outside ones would do wonders for the "urbanity" of downtown, but I think all the new residential development will be the main catalyst for urban renaissance in Hamilton's core.