Transit Fantasies

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Aren't most of the collisions occurring when a human is in the drivers seat or with vehicles driven by people?

Lots of the crashes are caused by human error IIRC.

Right, which is why I mentioned 16 km/h. I fully expect the numbers to go up if the speed limit does.

Besides, it's not all driver error. In both human-operated and autonomous buses, it's sometimes the pedestrian's fault... and the public is at least somewhat sympathetic to a human.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

It would probably work better on a highway type system where's there are more restrictions versus inside a standard city street.

Indeed - there's little difference between a closed-system BRT and a SkyTrain to a computer.

[cganuelas1995]

VICTORIA -- BC Ferries is launching pilot project that will see late-night sailings between Nanaimo, B.C., and the Lower Mainland for commercial vehicles and a limited number of regular passengers.

The ferry service says the additional sailings are intended to meet an increasing demand from commercial shippers amid the growth of online shopping and general freight to and from Vancouver Island.

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/bc-fe...al-vehicles-limited-passengers-1.5569621

Now this is giving me some fantasies, like modernizing the E&N and connecting it with the rail line in Squamish via island hopping. Then we could have a fixed rail connection between the island and the mainland.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

An extension of the Canada Line routed in such a way that it hits the possible future Steveston Highway Exchanged, Ladner Exchange, Tsawwassen Mills, and Tsawwassen ferry will replace the 601 and 620, meaning we can reroute the 601 into a more local route, perhaps combine it with the 640 so we can connect Tsawwassen, Ladner, Tilbury, and North Delta with both Canada and Expo Lines.

Yes, but even if that ever happens, it would be decades in the future. Great for the grandchildren, not so good for current residents.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Yes, but even if that ever happens, it would be decades in the future. Great for the grandchildren, not so good for current residents.

Would definitely see the 601 split into a B-Line RapidBus route and perhaps the Ladner/Tsawwassen portion of the 601 combine with the 640 before the Canada Line extends.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Yeah I'm thinking something like local routes in Ladner and Tsawwassen feeding passengers to the exchanges and then you have an express bus in the style of the 601 but without local stops connecting the exchanges together.

For the smaller, lower ridership feeder shuttles, we would need to hire more drivers and that could get expensive. Driverless shuttles with an attendant on board to assist passengers and take control if needed would be great for this scenario.

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

An extension of the Canada Line routed in such a way that it hits the possible future Steveston Highway Exchanged, Ladner Exchange, Tsawwassen Mills, and Tsawwassen ferry will replace the 601 and 620, meaning we can reroute the 601 into a more local route, perhaps combine it with the 640 so we can connect Tsawwassen, Ladner, Tilbury, and North Delta with both Canada and Expo Lines.

I have never fully understood why they wouldn't use a WCE type train and extend the tracks to connect to the ferry terminals. Have some stations connected to existing and future Skytrain.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I have never fully understood why they wouldn't use a WCE type train and extend the tracks to connect to the ferry terminals. Have some stations connected to existing and future Skytrain.

The demand probably only gets to a high enough level at Christmas, when they add more buses.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Another friendly reminder that there's less than 3k taking the 620 to the ferry terminal. That's $2.3 billion... for three full WCEs a day.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Another friendly reminder that there's less than 3k taking the 620 to the ferry terminal. That's $2.3 billion... for three full WCEs a day.

What about the mall, how many do the 601 and 620 take to the mall combined?

[Sheba]

I was pondering the route earlier today. From Bridgeport Station with stops at Hwy 99 / Steveston Hwy (I wish there was somewhere in-between to put a stop that would tie in with a connecting bus route), then magically cross the water to next to Ladner Exchange, on to Hwy 17 / 52nd St (corner of Tsawwassen Mills) and then Hwy 17 / Tsawwassen Dr (Ferry Park & Ride). After that the causeway would need to be widened for a rail line so I'd just run a shuttle service from there.

Is it worth spending billions on that? I'd suspect not, although pulling a lot of buses off the highway across Richmond to Ladner Exchange might be worth it from an environmental point of view. Anyway it would have to be planned with the new crossing, which currently isn't being designed for rail.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I was pondering the route earlier today. From Bridgeport Station with stops at Hwy 99 / Steveston Hwy (I wish there was somewhere in-between to put a stop that would tie in with a connecting bus route), then magically cross the water to next to Ladner Exchange, on to Hwy 17 / 52nd St (corner of Tsawwassen Mills) and then Hwy 17 / Tsawwassen Dr (Ferry Park & Ride). After that the causeway would need to be widened for a rail line so I'd just run a shuttle service from there.

Is it worth spending billions on that? I'd suspect not, although pulling a lot of buses off the highway across Richmond to Ladner Exchange might be worth it from an environmental point of view. Anyway it would have to be planned with the new crossing, which currently isn't being designed for rail.

Now, this is being hopeful that the tunnel replacement tunnel gets killed and we get a bridge instead, but the best way I think to cross the water would be to have the tracks south of Steveston Highway Station to dive into a tunnel underground before emerging and stopping at the interchange by the casino being built where the old Town and Country was, then continuing down to Ladner Exchange and then the mall and ultimately ferries once demand gets so high that and extension justifies it.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

What about the mall, how many do the 601 and 620 take to the mall combined?

I provided a link, right? All the numbers for every pre-lockdown route should be in the TSPR.

4,900 for the 601 and 2,580 for the 620. To put things in perspective, the 250 and 257 combined get 16,020, and a train line to Horseshoe Bay for half the distance is a pipe dream in itself.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I provided a link, right? All the numbers for every pre-lockdown route should be in the TSPR.

4,900 for the 601 and 2,580 for the 620. To put things in perspective, the 250 and 257 combined get 16,020, and a train line to Horseshoe Bay for half the distance is a pipe dream in itself.

Probably see a SeaBus between Bowen Island and Horseshoe Bay before we get a train to HB.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Another friendly reminder that there's less than 3k taking the 620 to the ferry terminal. That's $2.3 billion... for three full WCEs a day.

I'm not just talking about the 620, but also the express buses that are used to connect Vancouver's downtown to Victoria. If I were to set it up, have it leave the ferry terminal about 15 minutes after the ferry arrives, and arrive about 15 minutes before the ferries leave. Have a few stops along the way to Waterfront. Even if it were 3-5 bilevels, it would still be better than the bus, only to then have to transfer to the Skytraur to get to Waterfront.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I'm not just talking about the 620, but also the express buses that are used to connect Vancouver's downtown to Victoria. If I were to set it up, have it leave the ferry terminal about 15 minutes after the ferry arrives, and arrive about 15 minutes before the ferries leave.

Then you run into the exact same problems as your Horseshoe Bay line: the ferries don't have a consistent schedule, and ridership can't justify a train to Tsawwassen (Swartz Bay to Victoria is even sketchier). The only real problems with the 620 are lack of frequency and traffic at the GMT, both of which are solvable.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Have a few stops along the way to Waterfront. Even if it were 3-5 bilevels, it would still be better than the bus, only to then have to transfer to the Skytraur to get to Waterfront.

A commuter train all the way downtown is going to cost you even more: $2+ billion for a bridge and tunnel from Bridgeport to Waterfront, for a total of $4-5 billion. If you want to spend that kind of money just to avoid a transfer, extend the Canada Line all the way to Tsawwassen Mills for much cheaper and be done with it... which itself isn't going to happen before 2070.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

A commuter train all the way downtown is going to cost you even more: $2+ billion for a bridge and tunnel from Bridgeport to Waterfront, for a total of $4-5 billion. If you want to spend that kind of money just to avoid a transfer, extend the Canada Line all the way to Tsawwassen Mills for much cheaper and be done with it... which itself isn't going to happen before 2070.

There you go bringing reality into the transit fantasy thread - a crime I've been accused of before.

What I'd like to see is some people's take on the current transit system, drawn out so we can see what they're proposing. One rule is current technology only - the transport tubes of Futurama don't exist (flying cars don't exist either).


Transport tubes

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

There you go bringing reality into the transit fantasy thread - a crime I've been accused of before.

What I'd like to see is some people's take on the current transit system, drawn out so we can see what they're proposing. One rule is current technology only - the transport tubes of Futurama don't exist (flying cars don't exist either).

Well yeah, it's best not to be shouting "pipe dream" in the thread made specifically to talk about that. But when you've got posters coming in, insisting that their specific pipe dream is simple and not that hard and it would've been done if TransLink weren't so myopic/lazy/inefficient... best to nip that in the bud.

Heh, I still think Blimp Rapid Transit could be a thing.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Then you run into the exact same problems as your Horseshoe Bay line: the ferries don't have a consistent schedule, and ridership can't justify a train to Tsawwassen (Swartz Bay to Victoria is even sketchier). The only real problems with the 620 are lack of frequency and traffic at the GMT, both of which are solvable.

Is it that it can't be justified, or that it has been set up for failure?

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

A commuter train all the way downtown is going to cost you even more: $2+ billion for a bridge and tunnel from Bridgeport to Waterfront, for a total of $4-5 billion. If you want to spend that kind of money just to avoid a transfer, extend the Canada Line all the way to Tsawwassen Mills for much cheaper and be done with it... which itself isn't going to happen before 2070.

All you'd really need to do is add track to connect to existing rail lines.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=19_HTBWkcdY5yR7cshlxaFgtShgB08OKs&usp=sharing

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Is it that it can't be justified, or that it has been set up for failure?

Can't be justified, just like every idea for rail in Delta. Unless you know of a way to attract 16,000 more riders that nobody else does? Even if they all switched to transit, the entire peak season SWB-TSA route is barely 13k/day as it is.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

All you'd really need to do is add track to connect to existing rail lines.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=19_HTBWkcdY5yR7cshlxaFgtShgB08OKs&usp=sharing

There you go again. "All you'd really need to do" as if the freight rails were deserted (rather than 99% busy) and your route was a straight shot to downtown (instead of winding all over the place). That's $6 billion worth of track-twinning to get to Waterfront four minutes later than the bus/SkyTrain combo, assuming both leave at the same time. And there's no room at the ferry for a rail line, so it'd have to terminate at Tsawwassen Mills... meaning you'd have to take a bus anyway.

[cganuelas1995]

People really need to keep in mind that our current railways are mostly for freight, with passenger services at their mercy.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Heh, I still think Blimp Rapid Transit could be a thing.

Just as long as people have to use a zip line between the blimp and a loading / unloading platform

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

People really need to keep in mind that our current railways are mostly for freight, with passenger services at their mercy.

As we are reminded on a regular basis by WCE delays. Is it any wonder TransLink mostly aims to build grade separated Skytrain instead of any variety of on-ground rail.