Transit Fantasies

[dleung]

Port Hardy, but no Tofino/Ucluelet?? That's like my only reason for going to Vancouver Island haha

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The 620 definitely needs an upgrade. But anything faster or more frequent than the 257 has to go through West Van, so that's not happening.

Maybe an express bus that goes to the Ladner Exchange, then to the Richmond-Brighouse Station.

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

You mean like a biartic bus or guided bus? Light rail?

The nearest Skytrain is 25km away. That would be better as a WCE route.

Originally Posted by dleung

Port Hardy, but no Tofino/Ucluelet?? That's like my only reason for going to Vancouver Island haha

A bus from Port Alberni could be added.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

You mean like a biartic bus or guided bus? Light rail?

Far as I know, the routes to Horseshoe Bay and Tsawwassen are regular 14-metre buses that come every 20-45 minutes. So even articulateds every 10-20 minutes would be a vast improvement.

[officedweller]

I've seen the occasional articulated bus for the Horseshoe Bay Express at Christmas time, so they can navigate the hills.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I've seen the occasional articulated bus for the Horseshoe Bay Express at Christmas time, so they can navigate the hills.

I wonder if it would be feasible to do a dual mode bus or trolleybus to the ferry terminal. Maybe buy some more trolleybuses.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Maybe an express bus that goes to the Ladner Exchange, then to the Richmond-Brighouse Station.

The 620 and 601 both travel as express routes between Bridgeport and Ladner Exchange (the 620 goes to the ferry terminal and the 601 down to Tsawwassen).

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Far as I know, the routes to Horseshoe Bay and Tsawwassen are regular 14-metre buses that come every 20-45 minutes. So even articulateds every 10-20 minutes would be a vast improvement.

The problem is what does the bus connect to when there isn't a ferry there. Routes every 30 minutes (or longer) are still the standard outside of the CoV.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The problem is what does the bus connect to when there isn't a ferry there. Routes every 30 minutes (or longer) are still the standard outside of the CoV.

Fair enough, so keep the schedule as-is and just upgrade them to artics. Hardly more wasteful than many other suburban routes.

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

I'd likely lose a race since I can't dedicate all that much time to it. And my fantasy map (that I previously posted) is definitely in need of some updates and this will make it so much easier to do.

I too found the blueprinting station lengths to be confusing at first but I've gotten accustomed to it. Though I've been making my stations at least 20 m longer (so 100 m total) since the platform footprints are shorter if they're tunneled or elevated.

Heh, that's fine going with unlimited money. I actually want to see how the economics work, even if they're simplistic and not exactly real-world.

Yeah, that was me too for a bit. Though I was more concerned with the game's roadmap and mods. Can't wait for single tracks/stations to accurately do the Canada Line and WCE (for now). The game also doesn't have island platform stations yet either... forgot to post about that in the discussions.

Just thought I'd say that I'm back working on the Translink network in NIMBY Rails. Now that single tracks and much more have been added, the accuracy of my rebuild is a lot higher.

Expo Line is done to Fleetwood along with the branch to Lougheed (overlapping branches/lines don't work too well) and I'm now working on the Millennium Line.

I'm also adding a couple things in that are nice to haves on the existing and/or near future extensions before getting completely into fantasy territory. These include a third track/platform at Columbia and the Woodlands station.

I'm looking forward to showing it off, especially if I can get the system to be somewhat schedule accurate (at least with the same number of train sets).

I do wish there was a way to turn off platforms where they don't exist (the game always adds them to both sides of station track).

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Far as I know, the routes to Horseshoe Bay and Tsawwassen are regular 14-metre buses that come every 20-45 minutes. So even articulateds every 10-20 minutes would be a vast improvement.

Originally Posted by officedweller

I've seen the occasional articulated bus for the Horseshoe Bay Express at Christmas time, so they can navigate the hills.

The 257 seems to have articulated buses on a regular basis, at least based on what I've seen in the Ambleside area. They're interesting to see because part of the fuss over the R2 was that the double-length buses would supposedly increase pollution and congestion...

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The problem is what does the bus connect to when there isn't a ferry there. Routes every 30 minutes (or longer) are still the standard outside of the CoV.

You know I've always thought that the Tsawwassen Mills mall should have incorporated a bus loop for this very reason...

Serving the mall aside there's going to be a significant amount of housing on its west side!!!

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

You know I've always thought that the Tsawwassen Mills mall should have incorporated a bus loop for this very reason...

Serving the mall aside there's going to be a significant amount of housing on its west side!!!

I'm getting some fantasies in my brain thinking about a bus loop at Mills. Would be a great spot to put a station in the future, like if they double track the Lansdowne-Brighouse section (would require closing down Brighouse and doing heavy construction for a few months and rerouting some bus routes to Lansdowne) and extend the Canada Line to Steveston and Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal via Ladner Exchange.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

The 257 seems to have articulated buses on a regular basis, at least based on what I've seen in the Ambleside area. They're interesting to see because part of the fuss over the R2 was that the double-length buses would supposedly increase pollution and congestion...

Ha! Good point!

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I'm getting some fantasies in my brain thinking about a bus loop at Mills. Would be a great spot to put a station in the future, like if they double track the Lansdowne-Brighouse section (would require closing down Brighouse and doing heavy construction for a few months and rerouting some bus routes to Lansdowne) and extend the Canada Line to Steveston and Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal via Ladner Exchange.

If you ask me I'm actually really not a fan of how future South Delta service was laid out in the Southwest Area Transit Plan (SWATP). It's not only mostly a "more of the same" but in some ways it is clearly worse.

Right now Tsawwassen passengers riding anytime outside of peak hours must take the 601, a milk-run that takes local roads through Ladner before getting you anywhere else in the Lower Mainland. The 601 originally went straight up 56th, was made worse for Tsawwassen riders when it was redirected west to 52nd Street to serve Tsawwassen Mills (travelling the wrong way down Highway 17), and now the SWATP wants to direct it even further west to Salish Sea Drive (to serve new Tsawwassen First Nation residential), making the 601 an even longer ordeal for Tsawwassen people trying to get absolutely anywhere.

IMO the primary flaw with the current approach (and the SWATP) is the blatant prioritization of direct connections for Ladner residents and businesses over Tsawwassen residents and businesses. This actually strikes me as a really odd strategy because Tsawwassen has more people than Ladner (when counting the TFN new residential) and Tsawwassen's greater distance from everything means that it objectively benefits more from a direct route to Bridgeport than Ladner does.

I would actually prefer a strategy where the 601 (or perhaps a replacement RapidBus route?) is taken out of Ladner Village altogether and serves Ladner Exchange only, continues down Highway 17 to a new Tsawwassen Mills bus loop, before taking 52nd Street and 12th Avenue to terminate wherever in Tsawwassen; and if I were in charge I would do it over any objections from Lander residents. Ladner Exchange is close enough to serve the majority of Ladner residents connecting by a short walk, roll, bike or bus ride. The 310 now parallels the 601 between Ladner Exchange & Ladner Village, and all that's left is to make it a full-size bus and frequent transit route, to facilitate this connection. It's also worth mentioning that the SWATP proposes extending the Ladner Ring 606/608 bus routes to Bridgeport, so peak hour commuters won't be transferring.

Between Ladner and Tsawwassen, connections should really be left to local bus routes that don't cross any bridges or tunnels (I would do an extension of the 609 as well as another route that replaces service on the existing 601 corridor).

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

If you ask me I'm actually really not a fan of how future South Delta service was laid out in the Southwest Area Transit Plan (SWATP). It's not only mostly a "more of the same" but in some ways it is clearly worse.

Right now Tsawwassen passengers riding anytime outside of peak hours must take the 601, a milk-run that takes local roads through Ladner before getting you anywhere else in the Lower Mainland. The 601 originally went straight up 56th, was made worse for Tsawwassen riders when it was redirected west to 52nd Street to serve Tsawwassen Mills (travelling the wrong way down Highway 17), and now the SWATP wants to direct it even further west to Salish Sea Drive (to serve new Tsawwassen First Nation residential), making the 601 an even longer ordeal for Tsawwassen people trying to get absolutely anywhere.

IMO the primary flaw with the current approach (and the SWATP) is the blatant prioritization of direct connections for Ladner residents and businesses over Tsawwassen residents and businesses. This actually strikes me as a really odd strategy because Tsawwassen has more people than Ladner (when counting the TFN new residential) and Tsawwassen's worse proximity to everything means that it objectively benefits more from a direct route to Bridgeport more than Ladner does.

I would actually prefer a strategy where the 601 (or perhaps a replacement RapidBus route?) is taken out of Ladner Village altogether and serves Ladner Exchange only, continues down Highway 17 to a new Tsawwassen Mills bus loop, before taking 52nd Street and 12th Avenue to terminate wherever in Tsawwassen; and if I were in charge I would do it over any objections from Lander residents.

Ladner residents connecting to the Highway 99/17 corridor can take an expanded 310 (which ought to be a full-size bus and a frequent transit route) and transfer at Ladner Exchange, or the Ladner Ring 606/608 bus routes (which will even become direct connections to Bridgeport during peak hours per the SWATP). And, Ladner to Tsawwassen connections should be handled by local bus routes that don't cross any bridges or tunnels (I would do an extension of the 609 as well as another route that replaces service on the existing 601 corridor).

Yeah I'm thinking something like local routes in Ladner and Tsawwassen feeding passengers to the exchanges and then you have an express bus in the style of the 601 but without local stops connecting the exchanges together.

For the smaller, lower ridership feeder shuttles, we would need to hire more drivers and that could get expensive. Driverless shuttles with an attendant on board to assist passengers and take control if needed would be great for this scenario.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

For the smaller, lower ridership feeder shuttles, we would need to hire more drivers and that could get expensive. Driverless shuttles with an attendant on board to assist passengers and take control if needed would be great for this scenario.

IMO the employment areas being created in South Delta (Tsawwassen Mills, but also the new warehouse facilities near Deltaport Way), along with the increased reliability as a result of not routing through the Massey Tunnel, not only warrant the creation of these localized routes, it but should make them more sustainable from an operating perspective. As long as there is that centralized bus exchange (Tsawwassen Mills).

We're able to do this for Walnut Grove (which is of a comparable population to either Ladner or Tsawwassen, and also basically at the edge of our metro), so we should be able to do it for South Delta.

Imagine a 555 except it has to go through Port Kells on the 501 routing, and then milk run through Fraser Heights on the 337 routing, before finally getting on Highway 1 and crossing the bridge. That's what the 601 is today.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

IMO the employment areas being created in South Delta (Tsawwassen Mills, but also the new warehouse facilities near Deltaport Way), along with the increased reliability as a result of not routing through the Massey Tunnel, not only warrant the creation of these localized routes, it but should make them more sustainable from an operating perspective. As long as there is that centralized bus exchange (Tsawwassen Mills).

We're able to do this for Walnut Grove (which is of a comparable population to either Ladner or Tsawwassen, and also basically at the edge of our metro), so we should be able to do it for South Delta.

Imagine a 555 except it has to go through Port Kells on the 501 routing, and then milk run through Fraser Heights on the 337 routing, before finally getting on Highway 1 and crossing the bridge. That's what the 601 is today.

An extension of the Canada Line routed in such a way that it hits the possible future Steveston Highway Exchanged, Ladner Exchange, Tsawwassen Mills, and Tsawwassen ferry will replace the 601 and 620, meaning we can reroute the 601 into a more local route, perhaps combine it with the 640 so we can connect Tsawwassen, Ladner, Tilbury, and North Delta with both Canada and Expo Lines.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Going to point out that south Delta has a population of less than 50k combined, and that the 620 doesn't even get 3k riders a day. The Canada Line will have to wait for a few decades; we can do the bus exchange right now.

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

For the smaller, lower ridership feeder shuttles, we would need to hire more drivers and that could get expensive. Driverless shuttles with an attendant on board to assist passengers and take control if needed would be great for this scenario.

Since driverless shuttles are still colliding even at ~16 km/h, I think we'll have to pass on them in the near future.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Since driverless shuttles are still colliding even at ~16 km/h, I think we'll have to pass on them in the near future.

Aren't most of the collisions occurring when a human is in the drivers seat or with vehicles driven by people?

Lots of the crashes are caused by human error IIRC.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Going to point out that south Delta has a population of less than 50k combined, and that the 620 doesn't even get 3k riders a day. The Canada Line will have to wait for a few decades; we can do the bus exchange right now.

Since driverless shuttles are still colliding even at ~16 km/h, I think we'll have to pass on them in the near future.

It would probably work better on a highway type system where's there are more restrictions versus inside a standard city street.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

It would probably work better on a highway type system where's there are more restrictions versus inside a standard city street.

Or future planned neighborhood.