[Burnaby] City of Lougheed | Phase 1 Completed - Page 54

GMD · #**1061** Posted **Aug 15, 2021, 1:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

Lots of great points here about why more car lanes would be a terrible idea, but to add one more: it would inevitably come at the expense of pedestrian safety. It's a busy pedestrian route with shopping on both sides and wider streets have a measurable impact on pedestrian injuries and fatalities.

One of the benefits of development, when done well at least, is that it makes things safer / more pleasant for pedestrians by eliminating curb cuts and widening sidewalks.

Just for fun I looked at the 2007 google street view from North Road and Como Lake and the number of curb cuts removed (e.g. at 567 Clarke) is remarkable and I guess City of Lougheed will have the same impact, taking a giant pedestrian unfriendly parking lot and creating streets, with sidewalks, and cross-walks and so on.

What is actually quite remarkable looking at the old streetview of Clarke Road through Burquitlam is the transition away from a car dependent economy. There used to be two gas stations on the East side of Clarke along there, both gone, and a drive through Dairy Queen also gone. The Safeway used to be a mile back from the road and now it is right at the street - so much better for pedestrians. Big used tire shop, gone.

The West side of Clarke had strip malls, including an auto body shop and two used car lots/dealers, all gone as well.

I guess newer cars just don't need the same level of repairs and get better mileage and last longer, plus not as many young people buy cars, so we just don't need as many car related shops as we used to. I mean, there were plenty of restaurants also displaced by development, but they seemed to pop up again nearby (e.g. pizza factory) or get replaced by other restaurants, so that there are still plenty of places to eat in the area, but all the car related businesses (except Lordco) just disappeared.

Aesthetically, it is hard to argue things haven't improves significantly due to the change, and I have to think economically things are better now as well, without having so much land and resources devoted to just getting people from A to B.

Changing City · #**1062** Posted **Aug 15, 2021, 5:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMD

What is actually quite remarkable looking at the old streetview of Clarke Road through Burquitlam is the transition away from a car dependent economy. There used to be two gas stations on the East side of Clarke along there, both gone, and a drive through Dairy Queen also gone. The Safeway used to be a mile back from the road and now it is right at the street - so much better for pedestrians. Big used tire shop, gone.

The West side of Clarke had strip malls, including an auto body shop and two used car lots/dealers, all gone as well.

A long time ago in Downtown Vancouver (west of Main Street, north of Terminal) there were 99 gas stations or premises with a gas pump. Now there's just one, (and it's days are numbered). For many years there were multiple car dealerships for several blocks of West Georgia, and more on Burrard Street, and some on Granville Street as well. There were tire stores and parts suppliers and even truck dealerships. Now Pattison's Toyota dealership, when it moves back to Burrard Street, will be the only one selling and servicing vehicles. (Polestar are supposedly opening a small showroom too, on Seymour).

It would seem that places change, and grow up, and vehicle-related businesses seem to become less important, and almost disappear.

Klazu · #**1063** Posted **Aug 15, 2021, 11:09 PM**

The fact is that every new tower comes with 200-400 parking spaces. Lougheed alone will add fifty towers and which adds 10-20K new vehicles in the area.

Those cars will get used, if not daily, at least recreationally on weekends. Vancouver's appeal is its great outdoors and it is not being accessed by transit or bicycles in 99% of cases. Just look at any parking lot at any park - it's full from dusk till dawn. People have cars and use cars to access places. Lougheed has an excellent transit in three directions which is unparalleled, but I can still imagine dozens of destinations that I would need a car to have any reasonable travel time. In Lougheed's case Downtown is not one of those and few people go to Downtown regularly.

I have lived in six different high-rises both in Downtown and Metrotown, and in every one of them the parkade has been full of daily driven cars but bicycle rooms have been a ghost town with a handful of abandoned bicycles. I am not kidding as I have been one of those few using the bicycle room and have had all the space I could imagine. All these have been locations with excellent transit people still prefer driving to many locations.

I don't know if most people here live in those few small pockets where cycling is prevalent, like Commercial Drive area. Even there road sides are full of cars that get driven, so suggesting that this big group of people doesn't need any attention or new infrastructure is fair assessment in the slightest.

Changing City · #**1064** Posted **Aug 16, 2021, 12:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klazu

The fact is that every new tower comes with 200-400 parking spaces. Lougheed alone will add fifty towers and which adds 10-20K new vehicles in the area.

Those cars will get used, if not daily, at least recreationally on weekends. Vancouver's appeal is its great outdoors and it is not being accessed by transit or bicycles in 99% of cases. Just look at any parking lot at any park - it's full from dusk till dawn. People have cars and use cars to access places. Lougheed has an excellent transit in three directions which is unparalleled, but I can still imagine dozens of destinations that I would need a car to have any reasonable travel time. In Lougheed's case Downtown is not one of those and few people go to Downtown regularly.

I have lived in six different high-rises both in Downtown and Metrotown, and in every one of them the parkade has been full of daily driven cars but bicycle rooms have been a ghost town with a handful of abandoned bicycles. I am not kidding as I have been one of those few using the bicycle room and have had all the space I could imagine. All these have been locations with excellent transit people still prefer driving to many locations.

I don't know if most people here live in those few small pockets where cycling is prevalent, like Commercial Drive area. Even there road sides are full of cars that get driven, so suggesting that this big group of people doesn't need any attention or new infrastructure is fair assessment in the slightest.

That's why Metro Vancouver (as well as the City of Vancouver) are looking at 'mobility pricing' for vehicles using the region's roads. The theory is that if all those people have cars that they all want to drive at the same time, then to reduce congestion, the cost of driving will go up for the period they all want to drive. Some of them will change their mind and stay home, and travel later, or go shopping at their local mall, or take transit instead. It means people in EVs pay too - unlike the gas tax - and it's a system being adopted by cities across the world.

To quote the last Chief Executive of TransLink: “Here's some realities: Over the next 30 years, this region — this fairly compact geographic region — is set to accommodate over 1 million more people. Where are they going to live and how are they going to get around? A million more people?”

“There's just no space to build enough roads to accommodate that kind of traffic increase. That's a reality.”

That's without adding the urgent need to reduce emissions and total driving distances to try to reduce greenhouse gas volumes from transportation, while there are still vehicles with gas and diesel engines.

Marshal · #**1065** Posted **Aug 16, 2021, 7:48 AM**

Why do we have to have this same discussion infect so many threads? The same thoughts, the same stats, the same gripes, the same whining . . .

Instead of the same "bitch and inform" dialogue, how about some new ideas or info. And instead of in project threads, how about taking it to an appropriate transport thread.

SpongeG · #**1066** Posted **Aug 27, 2021, 5:08 AM**

the tallest tower has about 5 or 6 floors to go plus the roof structure.

It started on the smaller top floors last week, I think about 2 are done so far.

Marshal · #**1067** Posted **Aug 27, 2021, 10:15 AM**

I finally got out that way yesterday and drove by: those four towers are quite close together; a lot of visual density on that block (or two as per the designed ground plane). The base is interesting in how it shifts from high density "mall replacement" on the west side, to commercial w less floors along the south and south-east, to residential/garden/waterfalls on the north east and north faces.

I know the next phase is on the south-west perimeter of the mall property, but it's too bad they weren't going to go straight to the blocks west and north of this first phase.

The architecture: base and towers are competent but do not generate much interest. The base will probably prove more successful: the design involves some complexity to accomplish the intended uses. The towers are not quite background building quality, but only by being clean with some simplification in the detailing.

Marshal · #**1068** Posted **Aug 27, 2021, 10:24 AM**

Also, these towers are making their presence known along HWY 1; in both directions (coming into town over the Port Mann, and through the Burnaby Lake stretch on the way out). This goes for the whole North Road array. Also noticed a crane just north of Brunette, and 6 cranes on or near Royal Columbia Hospital.

svlt · #**1069** Posted **Aug 27, 2021, 11:46 PM**

Would be quite something to see another huge cluster of towers in the coming decade when this plan comes to full fruition. Already Brentwood looks like an entirely new city center from far away when you drive by Lougheed or even Westminster Hwy.

Lexus · #**1070** Posted **Sep 2, 2021, 9:46 PM**

2021, September 2

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Vin · #**1071** Posted **Sep 2, 2021, 9:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

A long time ago in Downtown Vancouver (west of Main Street, north of Terminal) there were 99 gas stations or premises with a gas pump. Now there's just one, (and it's days are numbered). For many years there were multiple car dealerships for several blocks of West Georgia, and more on Burrard Street, and some on Granville Street as well. There were tire stores and parts suppliers and even truck dealerships. Now Pattison's Toyota dealership, when it moves back to Burrard Street, will be the only one selling and servicing vehicles. (Polestar are supposedly opening a small showroom too, on Seymour).

It would seem that places change, and grow up, and vehicle-related businesses seem to become less important, and almost disappear.

You are describing downtown Vancouver alone. The rest of the city? Pretty much the same except for some little pockets. Even Burrard Street seems to have more car dealerships now, albeit the luxury ones for the low low density Shaughnessey & Van West folks, as well as Terminal Ave neighbourhood. Truth is, a lot of the suburbs have done away with way more car-dependent infrastructure than CoV.

Should be comparing apples to apples. Lougheed/Burquitlam neighbourhood should be compared to Kerrisdale or Kitsilano as secondary town centres. Google map the past and present for these places, and one can immediately tell that the Vancouver villages haven't really grown at all.

Changing City · #**1072** Posted **Sep 2, 2021, 10:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

You are describing downtown Vancouver alone. The rest of the city? Pretty much the same except for some little pockets. Even Burrard Street seems to have more car dealerships now, albeit the luxury ones for the low low density Shaughnessey & Van West folks, as well as Terminal Ave neighbourhood. Truth is, a lot of the suburbs have done away with way more car-dependent infrastructure than CoV.

Should be comparing apples to apples. Lougheed/Burquitlam neighbourhood should be compared to Kerrisdale or Kitsilano as secondary town centres. Google map the past and present for these places, and one can immediately tell that the Vancouver villages haven't really grown at all.

The secondary town centre to compare would be West Broadway - which had car dealerships all along it. BowMac where ToysRUs is now, Zephyr Ford where No Frills is located, the GM garage on Cambie redeveloped to The Rise with Save-On and Home Depot with townhouses above. There's pretty much just Pattison left, and that's proposed as an office building in future.

And there were dozens and dozens of gas stations across the city where two arterials meet. Today there might be one, and the other corners have mostly been redeveloped as residential over retail (in C-1 zones).

A few car dealers have opened onto Burrard, and some into industrial areas like Terminal, but more have closed than opened, and that's also true in areas like Lougheed, (which is what this thread is about), just like it's true in Vancouver. Truth is, a lot of the suburbs have done away with some of the car-related infrastructure just as in CoV. Which was my initial point.

GenWhy? · #**1073** Posted **Sep 2, 2021, 11:18 PM**

Does one remember the level of non-residential development occurring around / at/ in placement of, the mall?

EDIT: office mainly

Changing City · #**1074** Posted **Sep 3, 2021, 1:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Does one remember the level of non-residential development occurring around / at/ in placement of, the mall?

EDIT: office mainly

The 2016 Lougheed Town Centre Master Plan Report says the zoning allows up to 5.0 FAR of residential (about 8.9 million sq. ft. on the mall lands, and 2.2 million in the other sites not owned by SHAPE). "Shape Properties, the majority land owner in the Core Area, is anticipating to achieve the full 5.0 FAR of residential density on its lands as the area builds out over time" That's estimated at over 11,000 units in total, over 30 years.

In theory the zoning allows 6.0 FAR of commercial space to be developed (10.7 million sq. ft. on the mall, and 2.2 million on the other sites). However, "with respect to commercial density, Shape Properties has indicated it is considering in the order of 2.67 million sq. ft. of commercial floor area, the equivalent of 1.5 FAR, for its properties." "For the development sites not owned by Shape Properties, a minimum of 1.0 FAR density commercial density is expected." (That would be around an additional 400,000 sq. ft.).

So the total build of commercial could be about a quarter of what the zoning permits, split between retail and office, and maybe hotel - around 3 million sq. ft. "At minimum, over 5,200 jobs will be created"

On Phase 1, the first 4 towers have 1,539 units over a commercial podium with 128,600 of retail and 24,500 of office, replacing 28,000 sq. ft. of retail in part of the mall that was demolished. Further phases haven't been announced yet.

On the 'other sites' within the Town Centre, Pinnacle have proposed three towers on 9850 Austin over a 430,000 sq. ft. podium, mostly office and a hotel, but some retail. That hasn't been approved yet.

GenWhy? · #**1075** Posted **Sep 3, 2021, 4:30 PM**

Oh thanks! That's actually much better than I thought. With multi-site or area plan developments it's always hard to lump all the net sqft together to get an idea.