Office Market Discussion

[WarrenC12]

Well they are cutting their sf in half, so perhaps they can afford better office space. Certainly this location is very accessible to anybody living in the downtown area, as well as multiple Skytrain lines.

I keep hearing how Vancouver is an expensive shithole and the suburbs will be taking over soon. TBD I suppose.

[supercanuck]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well they are cutting their sf in half, so perhaps they can afford better office space. Certainly this location is very accessible to anybody living in the downtown area, as well as multiple Skytrain lines.

I keep hearing how Vancouver is an expensive shithole and the suburbs will be taking over soon. TBD I suppose.

Yeah, for sure they have crunched their numbers and this Cambie location came out near the top.

I'm just not sure I buy the argument that someone would be more willing to work for BestBuy due to them moving from Big Bend to Cambie & 6th.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by supercanuck

Yeah, for sure they have crunched their numbers and this Cambie location came out near the top.

I'm just not sure I buy the argument that someone would be more willing to work for BestBuy due to them moving from Big Bend to Cambie & 6th.

The last time I changed jobs, being close to home was one of the main things I was looking for. I live near OV so there's a ton of workplaces that could hit that target, but I still didn't bother looking at potential jobs in Richmond, Burnaby, etc.

Now, Best Buy is an established HQ office in an arguably declining business. They aren't like amazon moving in and hiring hundreds of people, so their location is less important in that sense.

[Vin]

Microsoft added more space at this newly constructed office building in Gastown. Saw the sign from the railway tracks while taking the seabus over the weekend.

Presumably this one(??):
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.2841971,-...Fsk_aUKMoKTnK1cGHw0JA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I suppose without the ability to house itself in one huge campus or a really tall office tower downtown, Microsoft has to be all over the place.

[officedweller]

I suppose it's also a function of whch employees are harder to retain / attract.
If your young talent who have plenty of job opportunties live downtown, then closer to downtown makes sense, and the more entrenched older managers who live in the suburbs with families can suffer the drive or commute to downtown.

[supercanuck]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The last time I changed jobs, being close to home was one of the main things I was looking for. I live near OV so there's a ton of workplaces that could hit that target, but I still didn't bother looking at potential jobs in Richmond, Burnaby, etc.

Now, Best Buy is an established HQ office in an arguably declining business. They aren't like amazon moving in and hiring hundreds of people, so their location is less important in that sense.

That's fair. I fall into the other category where going to Bby is much easier than trying to struggle to downtown.

I guess as @officedweller mentions below, perhaps BestBuy has more workers living in VCH-zone than FHA-zone so it makes more sense for them to be in Van.

[rickvug]

Originally Posted by supercanuck

Does being in Bby vs Van really make a difference when attracting talent? It's not like the office is in Abbotsford/Chilliwack. The Big Bend office was quite nice IMO, and close enough to Market Crossing to offer some conveniences.

Yes, for two reasons. One is transit access, the other is a mixture of prestige and having nice things around an office. Best Buy being in Mount Pleasant and says that you're hip, with a nice view and lots of entertainment around. Big Bend is a boring, nondescript office park. As a technology worker I'd already favor a large multi-national or hot startup over Best Buy. I might be able to get over that if they have the typical location, environment and perks I'd expect from a well funded startup. This makes being in an business park a non-starter. Best Buy would seriously limit its talent pool based on location. Perhaps this is vain or illogical but it is the truth.

I will say that I do think there is room for other locations to start to attract tech talent. In particular, I think Metrotown is well situated. It has enough amenities, views, and has excellent transportation access from all over the region.

[csbvan]

Big news for Mount Pleasant Industrial Area/Great Northern Way. I wonder if Disney's new Vancouver animation studio will head to this side of False Creek as well.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Could be, but most studios trend toward Yaletown or the CBD.

Originally Posted by rickvug

Yes, for two reasons. One is transit access, the other is a mixture of prestige and having nice things around an office. Best Buy being in Mount Pleasant and says that you're hip, with a nice view and lots of entertainment around. Big Bend is a boring, nondescript office park. As a technology worker I'd already favor a large multi-national or hot startup over Best Buy. I might be able to get over that if they have the typical location, environment and perks I'd expect from a well funded startup. This makes being in an business park a non-starter. Best Buy would seriously limit its talent pool based on location. Perhaps this is vain or illogical but it is the truth.

Hit the nail on the head - there doesn't appear to be a future for drive-in offices, especially with this generation of white collars.

[rickvug]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Hit the nail on the head - there doesn't appear to be a future for drive-in offices, especially with this generation of white collars.

I'd frame it slightly differently. For tech Downtown and Mount Pleasant are king. For other sectors where the talent pool might be less fickle, a bit older, and more suburban Downtown increasingly makes less sense given work from home, high office rent, and increasing commute times. For these workers we might see a migration towards areas like Metrotown, Big Bend, Surrey Central etc. I don't have any data to show you to back this up so feel free to prove or disprove. Just a gut feel based on where I've seen offices locate and what intuitively makes sense.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by rickvug

I'd frame it slightly differently. For tech Downtown and Mount Pleasant are king. For other sectors where the talent pool might be less fickle, a bit older, and more suburban Downtown increasingly makes less sense given work from home, high office rent, and increasing commute times. For these workers we might see a migration towards areas like Metrotown, Big Bend, Surrey Central etc. I don't have any data to show you to back this up so feel free to prove or disprove. Just a gut feel based on where I've seen offices locate and what intuitively makes sense.

That's more of an argument against downtown than for Big Bend. I agree that the core's not for everybody, but then Oakridge or Whalley will be more attractive to the average white collar than some empty parking lot complex off the freeway.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That's more of an argument against downtown than for Big Bend. I agree that the core's not for everybody, but then Oakridge or Whalley will be more attractive to the average white collar than some empty parking lot complex off the freeway.

The market is still betting on Downtown more than Burnaby for the time being. The Colliers office space data shows the whole of Burnaby adding 1,000,445 sq. ft. of space in the past 5 years, while Downtown added 5,755,749 (net) space. Currently there's 677,638 sq. ft. under construction in Burnaby and 3,627,596 sq. ft. Downtown. While we know there a few big projects theoretically still to come in Burnaby, like the Gilmore tower, there are also plenty of already approved or proposed office towers already identified Downtown. (That's not including the Flats, Railtown, Mount Pleasant and West Broadway projects in the rest of the Metro Core).

[jollyburger]

The only way Burnaby/Surrey will ever compete with Vancouver in any shape for office space would be for a multi-billion dollar firm to acquire a bunch of land to build a large campus.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The market is still betting on Downtown more than Burnaby for the time being. The Colliers office space data shows the whole of Burnaby adding 1,000,445 sq. ft. of space in the past 5 years, while Downtown added 5,755,749 (net) space. Currently there's 677,638 sq. ft. under construction in Burnaby and 3,627,596 sq. ft. Downtown. While we know there a few big projects theoretically still to come in Burnaby, like the Gilmore tower, there are also plenty of already approved or proposed office towers already identified Downtown. (That's not including the Flats, Railtown, Mount Pleasant and West Broadway projects in the rest of the Metro Core).

Do you have the numbers for Mount Pleasant? I was walking through there last night and it is impressive the level of construction. There are some big floorplates (for that area). There is also a rapid expansion of food and drink options in the Mount Pleasant slopes, so there's considerable activity well after the work day.

[idunno]

I actually had a friend who worked at Best Buy in communications, and she ended up quitting partially because she hated the location of the office out in Big Bend.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Do you have the numbers for Mount Pleasant? I was walking through there last night and it is impressive the level of construction. There are some big floorplates (for that area). There is also a rapid expansion of food and drink options in the Mount Pleasant slopes, so there's considerable activity well after the work day.

I'm pretty sure it's included in the Broadway Corridor dataset. Currently only one office is underway on Broadway itself, and one on West 8th. The rest are in the Mt Pleasant industrial area, or on its edge. Colliers say 692,889 sq. ft. was completed in the past 5 years, and 296,506 sq. ft. is under construction.

My list of projects has a slightly higher number under construction - 370,000 sq. ft. in Mt Pleasant and over 100,000 on Broadway. I suspect that Colliers consider the AbCellera bio-tech facilities as industrial rather than office; I split the space between industrial (lab) and office, based on the permit, so I have more office being built. I also have 190,000 sq. ft. of industrial / retail space under construction - the main floors of all the buildings in the Mt. Pleasant industrial area have to be a different use from general office. That's one of the reasons the area is more lively; there are production facilities like bakeries, breweries, and soon a vegan burger maker, who have ancillary cafe or tasting room spaces (and these days street patios).

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Do you have the numbers for Mount Pleasant? I was walking through there last night and it is impressive the level of construction. There are some big floorplates (for that area). There is also a rapid expansion of food and drink options in the Mount Pleasant slopes, so there's considerable activity well after the work day.

In 2016 it was 700,000 square feet. It will increase further if they approve the zoning changes along West 2nd.

Specifically, the limitations on general office use were relaxed
so that a bonus of 1 FSR of office space could be achieved when 1 FSR of industrial use was provided. The intent was to maintain the historic, production, distribution and repair role of the area while unlocking additional capacity for office space. These changes doubled the zoned office capacity in the Mount Pleasant Industrial Area from about 3 million to 6 million square feet. Today the Mount Pleasant Industrial area has about 700,000 square feet of office space

https://council.vancouver.ca/20161213/documents/p3.pdf

AbCellera will have 380,000 square feet alone and in this article it says they want 450,000 square feet:

https://thelogic.co/news/the-big-read/as...des-to-come-vancouver-braces-for-impact/

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I'm pretty sure it's included in the Broadway Corridor dataset. Currently only one office is underway on Broadway itself, and one on West 8th. The rest are in the Mt Pleasant industrial area, or on its edge. Colliers say 692,889 sq. ft. was completed in the past 5 years, and 296,506 sq. ft. is under construction.

My list of projects has a slightly higher number under construction - 370,000 sq. ft. in Mt Pleasant and over 100,000 on Broadway. I suspect that Colliers consider the AbCellera bio-tech facilities as industrial rather than office; I split the space between industrial (lab) and office, based on the permit, so I have more office being built. I also have 190,000 sq. ft. of industrial / retail space under construction - the main floors of all the buildings in the Mt. Pleasant industrial area have to be a different use from general office. That's one of the reasons the area is more lively; there are production facilities like bakeries, breweries, and soon a vegan burger maker, who have ancillary cafe or tasting room spaces (and these days street patios).

Excellent! Thank you.

[jollyburger]

Just an update on the Bentall addition from earlier this year.

Victor J. Coleman -- Chief Executive Officer and Chairman

Yes. Well, Blaine, listen, I think you know, given our pipeline right now, I think it would be the bolt ends of our market. So in Vancouver, at Bentall Centre, we're evaluating 0.5 million feet and the demand in that marketplace seems to still be as consistent as it was pre-COVID. And so we're looking through design right now and deciding at the opportune time in pre-leasing. We've got some activity with some larger tenants that are currently in the marketplace and expanding the marketplace.

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-trans...fic-properties-inc-hpp-q4-2020-earnings/

And the most recent earnings call

Absolute Software Corporation renewed its 49,813-square-foot lease through November 2024 at Bentall Centre in Downtown Vancouver.

[Changing City]

Rize Alliance's 'Onyx', next to the station and close to Science World SkyTrain, is no more. The site has been sold to GWL Realty, who have renamed the building False Creek Station. There's no sign of activity on site, but the GWL website says 2025 completion (although that's probably subject to some pre-leasing).