PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

heard the Inner Harbor is not faring well

It’s not. I’m in Baltimore for work at the moment. It’s trashier than South Street on a Friday night.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

heard the Inner Harbor is not faring well

I lived in Baltimore in 2019 and part of 2020. The Inner Harbor is very much stuck in the 90s both architecturally and with the current amenities. The aquarium is amazing but much of the energy has shifted east to Harbor East and Fells Point for night life and waterfront activities. Baltimore has so much potential and is a truly amazing city.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by bigfish

I lived in Baltimore in 2019 and part of 2020. The Inner Harbor is very much stuck in the 90s both architecturally and with the current amenities. The aquarium is amazing but much of the energy has shifted east to Harbor East and Fells Point for night life and waterfront activities. Baltimore has so much potential and is a truly amazing city.

This describes it perfectly.

When the Hard Rock Cafe is the best restaurant on the Inner Harbor, there’s a problem.

[mja]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It's generational and tied to white flight slash the 60s, 70s, and lesser extent 80s. I'd say the boomers were the first generation to really buy the suburban dream hook line and sinker. And their attitudes about cities are a reflection of their own narrative to reinforce their life choices. These are the same people to go to Baltimore, see the Inner Harbor and the Orioles stadium and proclaim Baltimore to be a world class city Philly should emulate. They're the same people that go to London, Paris, and Madrid once, proclaim how amazing it is, then go on about how bad socialism is for democracy. Anyways...

Don't get me wrong. Baltimore has great bones and some good neighborhoods, but it's got nothing on Philly.

My mom is still more impressed by a suburban Toll Brothers manse with fake vinyl windows and a large lot (with all grass and no trees) than she is with a Society Hill townhome. It's just who they are.

Anyways. I'll get off my soapbox now.

It's exactly this. I was looked at as being crazy by my NE Philly and suburban family for moving into Center City in the early 00's. Was even told by an aunt that I had to get out when my kids came of school age. I'm still here as happy as ever and my oldest is about to graduate from high school. Meanwhile, she's happy living in an exurb near Allentown. That would have been hell for me.

It's been interesting to see my parents' perceptions of the city change over the time. They even briefly considered buying in Fairmount a few years back, which would have been unthinkable when I was growing up, before settling in Abington. My mother still thinks Temple is some godforsaken pit of despair though when I mention it.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by mja

It's exactly this. I was looked at as being crazy by my NE Philly and suburban family for moving into Center City in the early 00's. Was even told by an aunt that I had to get out when my kids came of school age. I'm still here as happy as ever and my oldest is about to graduate from high school. Meanwhile, she's happy living in an exurb near Allentown. That would have been hell for me.

It's been interesting to see my parents' perceptions of the city change over the time. They even briefly considered buying in Fairmount a few years back, which would have been unthinkable when I was growing up, before settling in Abington. My mother still thinks Temple is some godforsaken pit of despair though when I mention it.

LOL. My mother's driving passion throughout my childhood was to get us out of the city. She finally achieved her goal when I was in high school, only for me to move right back in for college and basically never leave.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by allovertown

LOL. My mother's driving passion throughout my childhood was to get us out of the city. She finally achieved her goal when I was in high school, only for me to move right back in for college and basically never leave.

I just watched a friend's neighbor in Fishtown (old timers), with a level of despair and exasperation, put their house on the market with this narrative they needed to move to the suburbs for their kids (they have 3 they've managed to raise in the space until now).

Anyway...over the fence one night they gave me this long list of demands for their next house and a list of acceptable towns (based on schools and taxes). They excluded Delaware County because they view it as Fishtown West (even old timers have superiority complexes now).

Anyway...long story short. They sold their house in 2 days for almost $50K over asking and are now renting from the new owner. The oldest kid, who just graduated from high school, is going to college for nursing next year and rides his bike downtown to work as a busboy and makes $20+ an hour at one of the fancy restaurants.

The second kid is two years away from graduating. The youngest is at Adaire.

All of this urgency, and they bought in....wait for it. Roxborough.

I mean. I love Roxborough. But all the urgency (now) and they're gonna be down to 1 kid at home in a couple of years and Adaire is a far better school than the public options in Roxborough.

I digress.

Now is the time for them to dig in and enjoy Fishtown, the new found space in their home as near empty nesters, etc.

People are crazy.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I just watched a friend's neighbor in Fishtown (old timers), with a level of despair and exasperation, put their house on the market with this narrative they needed to move to the suburbs for their kids (they have 3 they've managed to raise in the space until now).

Anyway...over the fence one night they gave me this long list of demands for their next house and a list of acceptable towns (based on schools and taxes). They excluded Delaware County because they view it as Fishtown West (even old timers have superiority complexes now).

Anyway...long story short. They sold their house in 2 days for almost $50K over asking and are now renting from the new owner. The oldest kid, who just graduated from high school, is going to college for nursing next year and rides his bike downtown to work as a busboy and makes $20+ an hour at one of the fancy restaurants.

The second kid is two years away from graduating. The youngest is at Adaire.

All of this urgency, and they bought in....wait for it. Roxborough.

I mean. I love Roxborough. But all the urgency (now) and they're gonna be down to 1 kid at home in a couple of years and Adaire is a far better school than the public options in Roxborough.

I digress.

Now is the time for them to dig in and enjoy Fishtown, the new found space in their home as near empty nesters, etc.

People are crazy.

Yep. That makes no sense. I knew a family (who had been in the neighborhood for generations) that lived in Port Richmond. About 5 years ago and despite seeing that the gentrification wave coming they felt the need to sell and move. They had one kid in college and one in high school but had that same weird urgency. They moved to......wait for it. Levittown. Ughh,

[SEFTA]

Originally Posted by bigfish

I lived in Baltimore in 2019 and part of 2020. The Inner Harbor is very much stuck in the 90s both architecturally and with the current amenities. The aquarium is amazing but much of the energy has shifted east to Harbor East and Fells Point for night life and waterfront activities. Baltimore has so much potential and is a truly amazing city.

I heard they were going to replace the Inner Harbor buildings with residential, still with retail and surrounded by public waterfront spaces.
Seems to be the right direction.
I've not seen anything more on it.
I love Baltimore and think it has a great future.
Like Philly, plagued with violence.

[KDD]

Despite it being so close by, I've never actually been to Baltimore. But I have seen a lot of John Waters movies. The place seems amazing.

[mcgrath618]

Hey aaamazarite, awhile ago you said that there were several parties interested in the intersection of 38th and Chestnut. Any updates on that?

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Hey aaamazarite, awhile ago you said that there were several parties interested in the intersection of 38th and Chestnut. Any updates on that?

Nothing-- on 3/16/20 Goldenberg Group was supposed to present a project they were planning for site to the Spruce Hill RCO, but the meeting was cancelled and there was never any follow up.

Still plenty of stuff coming to University City (I just heard about a new one last week) though Gauthier's new zoning overlay over the entire area is going to throw a wrench into some of those projects.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

Nothing-- on 3/16/20 Goldenberg Group was supposed to present a project they were planning for site to the Spruce Hill RCO, but the meeting was cancelled and there was never any follow up.

Still plenty of stuff coming to University City (I just heard about a new one last week) though Gauthier's new zoning overlay over the entire area is going to throw a wrench into some of those projects.

Not familiar with said overlay. What does it do?

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Not familiar with said overlay. What does it do?

Here you go-- 10% affordable housing required and a payment to the Housing Trust Fund on top of that or another 20%. Hasn't passed in council yet but it will.

https://phila.legistar.com/LegislationDe...C808E30F1&Options=ID|Text|&Search=zoning

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

Here you go-- 10% affordable housing required and a payment to the Housing Trust Fund on top of that or another 20%. Hasn't passed in council yet but it will.

https://phila.legistar.com/LegislationDe...C808E30F1&Options=ID|Text|&Search=zoning

I feel like the guidelines laid out in that bill for what affordable housing is/isn’t are a little more lenient than they have been in the past (IE, the %s of gross income are higher), but I might be wrong.

I feel like this isn’t that big of a hinderance to development, considering that most of what goes up in UC is student-oriented, but I might be wrong. I’m in construction, not real estate.

Do you (or anyone else for that matter) see this bill as detrimental to development and growth in UC, especially in places like Schuylkill Yards, uCity Square, and University Place?

[summersm343]

Suburban apartment market remains hot, but 'gangbusters' Philadelphia leasing catching up

Philadelphia experienced softness last year and during the first couple of months of this year, including lower rents, reduced absorption and more concessions. However, market conditions in the city are improving.

“It is taking longer for the City of Philadelphia to recover from the impact of the pandemic than the suburbs, which is true in all three major cities in the Mid-Atlantic," the Delta report said. "City living still has its advantages and as we get further away from the worst of the pandemic, we expect market conditions in Philadelphia to continue to improve.”

David Yeager, CEO of Radnor Property Group, which developed 3737 Chestnut and Vue32 in University City and the Hamilton, a complex with 600 apartments at 15th and Hamilton streets in Philadelphia, is starting to see the market recover.

“Urban communities were getting hammered during the pandemic and we felt it in Center City and University City much more,” Yeager said. “We definitely lost occupancy like everyone else during the pandemic. In addition to occupancy dropping, rental rates dropped and concessions increased.”

Before the pandemic, Radnor’s apartment portfolio was 90% occupied. The company lost 20% to 25% of its occupancy last summer as a result of younger renters, whether graduate students or professionals, fleeing to their parents' homes. Others ventured to the suburbs or took to Shore houses for refuge.

This past spring and summer have been a complete contrast from a year ago for Yeager and other apartment owners in Philadelphia. They are experiencing leasing return to pre-pandemic levels.

“The market is the strongest it’s ever been,” said Matt Pestronk, president at Post Brothers, noting the company is leasing a unit each day at the Poplar, a 285-unit apartment complex at 900 N. Poplar St. in Philadelphia.

Radnor Property began developing the second phase of the Hamilton in January 2020. The project involved a 17-story, 228,000-square-foot tower with 297 apartments. The uncertainty of how leasing the second phase would go came with the onset of the pandemic but began to diminish a couple of months ago. “This past spring and this summer have been gangbusters,” Yeager said.

In June, the company had 60 leases signed at a pace of 15 a week and that has continued into July. “That’s phenomenal,” he said.

The first phase of the Hamilton returned to above 90% occupancy and the second phase is 30% leased. With so many leases getting signed each week, Yeager is confident that the building will lease up and stabilize.

That said, rental rates are still slightly discounted from pre-pandemic levels and Yeager estimates that it will take years to get back to pro forma levels.

The demand in the city is being driven by the universities committing to opening in the fall at full enrollment and international students and young professionals also coming back.

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...estId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=0

[bdurk]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Hey aaamazarite, awhile ago you said that there were several parties interested in the intersection of 38th and Chestnut. Any updates on that?

If anyone touches Abner's I will RIOT. That's my favorite cheesesteak in the city.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by bdurk

If anyone touches Abner's I will RIOT. That's my favorite cheesesteak in the city.

R…really? Abners?

To each his own…

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by bdurk

If anyone touches Abner's I will RIOT. That's my favorite cheesesteak in the city.

And your first post to a skyscraper forum is about a cheesesteak! Can't we go back to talking about taxes? (Ok, we'll let Abner's move)

[bdurk]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

R…really? Abners?

To each his own…

I will die on this hill! My dad used to take me to Abner's when I was little and I always loved it because of the cold bar (unlimited pickles). They make amazing cheesesteaks too, but it's got more to do with the nostalgia for me.

[PHL10]

I haven’t had an Abner’s steak in 25 years but don’t recall it being anything special. I guess I will need to reacquaint myself to make sure I’m not missing something good.