PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[summersm343]

Congressional plan would reconnect neighborhoods like Philly’s Chinatown, fractured by highways

Nobody in authority heeded Chinatown residents’ objections in the late 1980s before the shovels and earth movers began to claw a trench through the heart of Philadelphia for the Vine Street Expressway, splitting their community in two.

On Monday, Democratic U.S. Reps. Dwight Evans of Philadelphia and Lisa Blunt Rochester of Delaware said at a discussion in Chinatown that it’s long past time to right some wrongs as they discussed legislation they are sponsoring to reconnect urban neighborhoods around the nation shattered by highway construction — many of them home to brown, Black and low-income people.

The proposal, incorporated into the surface transportation bill that the House recently passed, would provide $3 billion in grants each year for five years to tear down these concrete walls or to alter them, such as by building caps over expressways that would provide a way to cross over and to develop parks or other community amenities on them.

Read more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/...cial-equity-transportation-20210713.html

[Knight Hospitaller]

I'm all for "reconnecting" the neighborhood, but any severed connection goes way back before the VSE went underground. Is anyone else old enough to remember Vine Street being a ten lane "street" at grade, going underground only between Broad and Logan Circle? I don't remember the crosswalks, but I do remember thinking that the bridges with two local lanes on either side was a huge improvement at the time.

Originally Posted by summersm343

Congressional plan would reconnect neighborhoods like Philly’s Chinatown, fractured by highways



Read more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/...cial-equity-transportation-20210713.html

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

I'm all for "reconnecting" the neighborhood, but any severed connection goes way back before the VSE went underground. Is anyone else old enough to remember Vine Street being a ten lane "street" at grade, going underground only between Broad and Logan Circle? I don't remember the crosswalks, but I do remember thinking that the bridges with two local lanes on either side was a huge improvement at the time.

I can't recall but you are right in that they already had turned it into a monster before they made it into a below grade expressway. Post war widening underway:



https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/archive/vine-street-expressway/

[mcgrath618]

My Neighbors Can’t Believe I Left San Francisco for Philly. I Can’t Believe I Waited This Long
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2021/07/10/philly-inferiority-complex/

A pretty well written piece that made me really excited about the lease I just signed in UC. It’ll be great to come home.

[kool-ski]

I'm all for "reconnecting" the neighborhood, but any severed connection goes way back before the VSE went underground. Is anyone else old enough to remember Vine Street being a ten lane "street" at grade, going underground only between Broad and Logan Circle? I don't remember the crosswalks, but I do remember thinking that the bridges with two local lanes on either side was a huge improvement at the time

I remember that 10-lane version of Vine Street well. However, the expressway ascended from underground and stopped at 18th Street, not Broad (at least from the 1960's to the mid-80's). Back then I had always wondered why one would exit the Schuylkill Expwy, ride on a highway that went approximately, what, 5 or 6 city blocks, essentially underground, then ascend to street level. Extra-wide street level, at that.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

My Neighbors Can’t Believe I Left San Francisco for Philly. I Can’t Believe I Waited This Long
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2021/07/10/philly-inferiority-complex/

A pretty well written piece that made me really excited about the lease I just signed in UC. It’ll be great to come home.

That was a good article, and refreshing to read an anecdote that did not include the usual backhanded compliments (common among New York writers who visit / move here).

I too hear generally positive things from outsiders who visit Philadelphia. (I travel a lot for work). The usual comments are about the excellent food, how much bigger the city was than they thought, the history, the eclectic energy, the old world charm, etc.

I still do not understand the exhaustive inferiority complex from some locals. I guess the grass is greener complex is real? Or old habits die hard? But I notice this negative trend lessening with each passing year. But that would still irritate me hearing some ignorant person ask why I would move to Philadelphia from San Fran, when that person hasn't even been there! I have been to San Fran a few times, it is a cool city, but the grim atmosphere, homeless, drugs, human poop is jarring. I usually stay at the W and on every occasion have witnessed people shooting up feet from the hotel entrance. Center City feels a lot more put together these days than downtown San Fran.

Also, funny the author mentioned Mare of Easttown. It was a fantastic show, but boy was that dramatized. A lot of it was shot in Aston and Nether Providence, which are nice normal suburbs, but the show largely made them out to be like Johnstown, PA, they should have just the show there. Only the final episode felt like normal suburbs. Plus, the writer is from the real Easttown (Berwyn), which is one of the fluffiest and wealthiest towns in the state. I thought I was alone on that in that feeling. Anyways, I digress.

(I live in New York City right now, but I am a forever Philadelphia booster. I lived in Philly for a while and grew up in Upper Providence near Media. I plan to return in the coming years. I also have a friend who just moved back to Philly from San Fran and couldn't be happier. He got to keep his San Fran salary too.)

Anyways, sorry to take this thread off topic.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Also, funny the author mentioned Mare of Easttown. It was a fantastic show, but boy was that dramatized. A lot of it was shot in Aston and Nether Providence, which are nice normal suburbs, but the show largely made them out to be like Johnstown, PA, they should have just the show there. Only the final episode felt like normal suburbs. Plus, the writer is from the real Easttown (Berwyn), which is one of the fluffiest and wealthiest towns in the state. I thought I was alone on that in that feeling. Anyways, I digress.

(I live in New York City right now, but I am a forever Philadelphia booster. I lived in Philly for a while and grew up in Upper Providence near Media. I plan to return in the coming years. I also have a friend who just moved back to Philly from San Fran and couldn't be happier. He got to keep his San Fran salary too.)

Anyways, sorry to take this thread off topic.

I loved Mare but also agree with your points. The darkness was overly dramatized. Even the shots in Marcus Hook were overly dark. The neighborhood that it was shot in (Viscose Village) is a really unique and lovely little neighborhood (and old company town).

Anyways, I grew up in Aston and live in Brooklyn now. I've always maintained a presence in Philadelphia bc I own property there but I've been in Brooklyn for the past 9 years.

I settle on a house in Fishtown next Friday and am officially moving back. I will continue to work in NYC and will maintain my NYC salary. I'm exempt from any re-calibration because my "home" office location is still NY as I will be in the office 2 days a week.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I settle on a house in Fishtown next Friday and am officially moving back. I will continue to work in NYC and will maintain my NYC salary. I'm exempt from any re-calibration because my "home" office location is still NY as I will be in the office 2 days a week.

Congrats!

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I loved Mare but also agree with your points. The darkness was overly dramatized. Even the shots in Marcus Hook were overly dark. The neighborhood that it was shot in (Viscose Village) is a really unique and lovely little neighborhood (and old company town).

Anyways, I grew up in Aston and live in Brooklyn now. I've always maintained a presence in Philadelphia bc I own property there but I've been in Brooklyn for the past 9 years.

I settle on a house in Fishtown next Friday and am officially moving back. I will continue to work in NYC and will maintain my NYC salary. I'm exempt from any re-calibration because my "home" office location is still NY as I will be in the office 2 days a week.

Awesome, congrats on the move.

And some of my best childhood friends are from Aston! Small world.

[summersm343]

That's a great article! Thanks for posting McGrath. It is refreshing to see the viewpoint of Philadelphia shifting.

It's a great city, and does deserve it's time in the spotlight.

[SEFTA]

It is refreshing. and true
San Francisco was a mess when I was there. Very aggressive homeless.

This is what I've been saying to many people.
I think it's a Pennsylvania thing.
This inferiority complex.
Is it Amish humility? ������

"Philadelphians, as people with inferiority complexes tend to, have spent years feeling less-than. Now is a chance to break the cycle of doom and gloom, because despite our negativity, we aren’t keeping folks from moving here. It’s time to acknowledge that to the rest of the country, we don’t look half bad."

The "Negadelphia" factor is a terrible thing.
Most Negadelphians rarely travel and I just want to say STFU!

Philadelphia is one of the unique cities in the country, if not the world.
There are projects coming that I think are definitely in the right directions.
Penn's Landing, Washington & Spring Garden Street reconstructions.

We need alternate side of the street parking, street sweeping and revamping the garbage pick-up.

I posted this before but it is related as people from out of town visiting.
You can see in this guys face that he is blown away by Philadelphia, and it looks great.
A real feel good

"Peter Santenello Philadelphia -Not What I Expected!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsg4mEy72Mk&t=772s

[badthingshappen]

Transplant from Maryland, been in Philly going on 6 years and love it. About a half dozen kids I went to high school with ended up with ended up here also and most of them are still here, a couple had to move other places for work or whatever but there's definitely a character that keeps people. 90% of the people I bring up here for a visit love the place too.

[EastSideHBG]

Is it negative or just real? I don't really see, "Everywhere else is better than here," but more of, "Here's our issues and we recognize them."

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

It is refreshing. and true
San Francisco was a mess when I was there. Very aggressive homeless.

This is what I've been saying to many people.
I think it's a Pennsylvania thing.
This inferiority complex.
Is it Amish humility? ������

You know, there's kind of a long historical tradition of folks from other places who move to Philly, see its potential in ways natives don't, and actually work towards fulfilling that potential. Ben Franklin from Boston, Ed Rendell from NYC, etc.

And I think it's more Quaker humility than Amish humility that's historically been a factor in Philly. In fact, the late Penn sociologist E. Digby Baltzell--the person credited with coining the acronym "WASP" for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant--touched on this in his book "Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia":

Based on the biographies of some three hundred people in each city, this book shows how such distinguished Boston families as the Adamses, Cabots, Lowells, and Peabodys have produced many generations of men and women who have made major contributions to the intellectual, educational, and political life of their state and nation. At the same time, comparable Philadelphia families such as the Biddles, Cadwaladers, Ingersolls, and Drexels have contributed far fewer leaders to their state and nation. From the days of Benjamin Franklin and Stephen Girard down to the present, what leadership there has been in Philadelphia has largely been provided by self-made men, often, like Franklin, born outside Pennsylvania.

Baltzell traces the differences in class authority and leadership in these two cites to the contrasting values of the Puritan founders of the Bay Colony and the Quaker founders of the City of Brotherly Love. While Puritans placed great value on the "calling" or devotion to one's chosen vocation, Quakers have always placed more emphasis on being a good person than on being a good judge or statesman. Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia presents a provocative view of two contrasting upper classes and also reflects the author's larger concern with the conflicting values of hierarchy and egalitarianism in American history.

https://www.amazon.com/Puritan-Boston-Quaker-Philadelphia-Baltzell/dp/156000830X

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Is it negative or just real? I don't really see, "Everywhere else is better than here," but more of, "Here's our issues and we recognize them."

My family was, for a long time, CONVINCED that Philadelphia was the worst place in the country. It took a lot of work to convince them otherwise, but they seem to have been brought around.

I know a lot of others who are very similar. There’s a distinct difference between the two mentalities that you’ve described, and I see a lot more if the former than the latter.

[SEFTA]

Yes. Quaker is more appropriate
Pennsylvania has a weird relationship with God

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Is it negative or just real? I don't really see, "Everywhere else is better than here," but more of, "Here's our issues and we recognize them."

No, I think it's more not recognizing the positives that your city and region have, while focussing exclusively on the negatives. Other culturally-rich cities--Boston, NYC, San Francisco, etc.--tend to have a lot more boosterism and promotion of their cultural assets and significance both locally and nationally, despite also having lots of big-city problems. At least in my rather long experience living both in Philly and in other parts of the country.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

My family was, for a long time, CONVINCED that Philadelphia was the worst place in the country. It took a lot of work to convince them otherwise, but they seem to have been brought around.

I know a lot of others who are very similar. There’s a distinct difference between the two mentalities that you’ve described, and I see a lot more if the former than the latter.

It's generational and tied to white flight slash the 60s, 70s, and lesser extent 80s. I'd say the boomers were the first generation to really buy the suburban dream hook line and sinker. And their attitudes about cities are a reflection of their own narrative to reinforce their life choices. These are the same people to go to Baltimore, see the Inner Harbor and the Orioles stadium and proclaim Baltimore to be a world class city Philly should emulate. They're the same people that go to London, Paris, and Madrid once, proclaim how amazing it is, then go on about how bad socialism is for democracy. Anyways...

Don't get me wrong. Baltimore has great bones and some good neighborhoods, but it's got nothing on Philly.

My mom is still more impressed by a suburban Toll Brothers manse with fake vinyl windows and a large lot (with all grass and no trees) than she is with a Society Hill townhome. It's just who they are.

Anyways. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[SEFTA]

heard the Inner Harbor is not faring well

[JohnIII]

The photo of the old Vine Street area intrigues me because of my age and the age of many of my relatives. At the time they built the Vine Street Expressway that area was the center of the Tenderloin District; you went there for cheap thrills or to smoke Opium. My family owned a legal business on the edge of the Tenderloin going back to the 1890's. From what I remember when they built the Vine Street Expressway it was seen as cleaning up blight back then but many people were angry about it because it affected the neighborhood and you did have law abiding people who lived there; plus the Church on 9th and Arch which was very influential in Chinatown was affected; this had to be I guess in the mid 1960 or so.

If I remember right when they ran the Schuylkill Expressway into Philadelphia it ran south from City Avenue and down to Vine Street; the expressway didn't go under 30th Street or into South Philly back then; if you wanted to drive out of town you had to drive up to Vine Street to get; I remember my father talking about that; they dug the underpass from the Schuylkill down to 15th Street back in the 1950's when the highway was still relatively new but it was a death trap then; they didn't had this modern idea of interstates but no modern safety standards.

Its just funny because here we all are in 2021 thinking of discussions that came up in the 1950s and 60s; and its alsso funny because in Philadelphia things take so long that when things are done its usually 20 years after its first brought up; a lot of those highway discussions came up even in the 1930s and 40s when my father was a young adult.

If they cover the Vine Street Expressway what will go there? Parks? Stores? Just don't bring back the Tenderloin Activity