VIA Rail

[milomilo]

Is it just me or is this a bizarre communication? He is making an announcement for the announcement, letting us know what the announcement will be, thus making it redundant?

Promising news if true - one has to ask what took them so long.

[Innsertnamehere]

While the announcement is 100% timed to be right before the election, the allocation of $500 million in the already approved budget to the project shows that they do intend to follow through as well.

To me the previous funding allocation meant that they decided to go forward with the project a while ago and needed to allocate money to get it rolling, but delayed the formal announcement to a more politically convenient time.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Is it just me or is this a bizarre communication? He is making an announcement for the announcement, letting us know what the announcement will be, thus making it redundant?

Promising news if true - one has to ask what took them so long.

I had the same thought. It's like he jumped the gun by announcing what will be announced tomorrow.

Spoiler alert: here's what I'm announcing tomorrow.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Is it just me or is this a bizarre communication? He is making an announcement for the announcement, letting us know what the announcement will be, thus making it redundant?

Promising news if true - one has to ask what took them so long.

The first rule of politics, if you are in the position to make a funding announcement in the pre-election period, is to make the same announcement at least several times for maximum effect.

The old Shawn Graham Liberal government in NB was well known for making funding announcements at least three times (six if you include in English and French).

The Brian Gallant Liberal government in NB, adhered to this policy quite closely as well, usually several months before the election, in the immediate pre-election period and then at least once during the election campaign proper.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

While the announcement is 100% timed to be right before the election, the allocation of $500 million in the already approved budget to the project shows that they do intend to follow through as well.

To me the previous funding allocation meant that they decided to go forward with the project a while ago and needed to allocate money to get it rolling, but delayed the formal announcement to a more politically convenient time.

It depends what the money is for. $491.2 million over six years compared to an estimated budget of 4+ billion does not suggest they are in a rush.

[Acajack]

So this HSR would roll along at 200 kmh.

Current top speed in the "corridor" is 160 kmh, though that's far from being a regular speed on any of the routes.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So this HSR would roll along at 200 kmh.

Current top speed in the "corridor" is 160 kmh, though that's far from being a regular speed on any of the routes.

I guess the real question in practical terms here is what that means in overall travel time reductions on each route. If this means that every Montreal-Toronto train will run at under 4 hours, for instance, then that's a big deal even if it isn't actual HSR.

[Acajack]

If they can maintain the 200 kmh for most of the route, that means Toronto-Ottawa in 3h15, and Ottawa-Montreal in under 2h.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If they can maintain the 200 kmh for most of the route, that means Toronto-Ottawa in 3h15, and Ottawa-Montreal in under 2h.

I'd imagine they will be stopping along the way at least in Dorval, Kingston and Guildwood and possibly some other stations which would slow things down. Only a couple of the slower milk runs stop in the smaller places like Gananoque... I'd be curious to see what running times will be projected for those local trains.

[Innsertnamehere]

Unfortunately the Toronto-Montreal travel time savings were expected to be pretty minor in the previous preliminary schemes as trains would now take a longer route through Ottawa. IIRC travel time reductions for that trip were only in the range of 15 minutes or so.

The big travel time savings were Toronto-Ottawa, Ottawa-Montreal, and Montreal-Quebec.

It’ll be interesting to see if this changes much with the finalized design. To achieve sub 4 hour times for Toronto-Montreal, Toronto-Ottawa would have to be around 2:45 and Montreal-Ottawa at about 1:15, with an average speed of about 145km/h.

Most of Toronto to Ottawa is going to be a new corridor, so I imagine that it will be mostly 200km/h. We’ll have to see.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acajack

so this hsr would roll along at 200 kmh.

Current top speed in the "corridor" is 160 kmh, though that's far from being a regular speed on any of the routes.

hfr .

[Innsertnamehere]

This was the map previously released showing the planned corridor in yellow. I'm sure we will get an updated one tomorrow.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Most of Toronto to Ottawa is going to be a new corridor, so I imagine that it will be mostly 200km/h. We’ll have to see.

It's actually an old CP freight corridor. And its geometry all but precludes any high speed running. Read this:

https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress.com/2020/08/17/mythbusting-vias-hfr-travel-time-claims/

The place where they can get up to speed would be portions between Smiths Falls and Coteau (through Ottawa).

https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress.com/2021/04/21/where-to-spend-500m-on-via-lines/

Ultimately, what matters is average speed. Not top speed. And I wouldn't expect much different from the travel times that were leaked a few years ago.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by jamincan

So how do we find out if this is real Liberal Party policy that they'll carry through vs. Liberal Party election promises that they drop as soon as they get elected and find the flimsiest excuse?

Purchasing the Havelock corridor from CP would be a very strong indication of intent to complete the project. The $500M in early funding is sufficient to do that but negotiations will probably take a while.

[Acajack]

This reminded me that a buddy of mine (non-government) told me last summer his company was working on an HSR plan in the corridor for the Liberals.

[esquire]

Why does Brockville get a little branch to itself but not Kingston? Or is the idea that it would be a crossover from the VIA HFR line to the existing main line?

Would there be any service at all on the existing Toronto-Montreal route under this arrangement?

[milomilo]

So he says to Quebec city. Does this mean the tunnel issue has been resolved? Or are they just going to go the long way around?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

This was the map previously released showing the planned corridor in yellow. I'm sure we will get an updated one tomorrow.

I suspect there is a distinction to be made between HFR and HSR.

I honestly doubt that an HFR line will have this many stations. If so any time savings from the increased speed would be eliminated by all of the stops.

I would think Kingston could be the only stop between Toronto and Ottawa, with maybe another occasional stop added in the eastern part of the GTA.

I don't see any HSR stops between Montreal and Ottawa, and only Trois-Rivières between Montreal and Quebec City.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by milomilo

So he says to Quebec city. Does this mean the tunnel issue has been resolved? Or are they just going to go the long way around?

The routing on the north shore of the river isn't really longer. Not in any significant way.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by esquire

Why does Brockville get a little branch to itself but not Kingston? Or is the idea that it would be a crossover from the VIA HFR line to the existing main line?

Would there be any service at all on the existing Toronto-Montreal route under this arrangement?

That is the existing corridor that VIA uses for Toronto-Ottawa service.

The idea back when HFR was first proposed 3 or 4 years ago was that service would remain on the existing corridors but would be refined to focus on service for the local areas along the existing route. From what I recall all services would start or end in Kingston with route timing adjusted to best serve those trips, and no real through service of note beyond maybe a couple of milk runs.

All service from for between the major centres would be routed through the dedicated line, which would provide faster and more consistent trip times.

Regarding the stop locations on the map I posted, I fully expect that to change. the map is a very early iteration on the project and my understanding is that a lot more work has been done since on the project. Hopefully we see more details tomorrow.