VIA Rail

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

One thing I found a bit odd about the REM project is that they converted the existing 25kv AC electrified section used for the Deux-Montagnes line into 1.5kv DC. While it's certainly true that most (all?) urban metro lines use DC at 0.6 - 1.5kv DC, there are plenty of longer distance suburban services that use higher voltage, as do nearly all long distance intercity lines. For instance, the u/c Crossrail in London will use 25kv AC despite having a central metro-like section, while Munich S-Bahn uses 15kv AC. Paris RER has both sections that use 1.5kv DC and 25kv AC.

The only Raison d'Etre of the REM is to allow the CDPQ as its promoter to milk the Quebec taxpayer by charging him an obscene 72 cents per passenger-km. Operational aspects, like the integration into existing or planned transportation networks are just an afterthought, as are the actual needs of passengers. There is a reason why nowhere else in the world, the design (not just: construction and/or operation) of transportation networks is outsourced to a private company, let alone a rogue pension fund like the CDPQ...

[J.OT13]

Not getting my hopes up.

Transport Action Canada
@TransportAction
Stay tuned for a federal announcement on High Frequency Rail in the next few days. #viarail

https://www.msn.com/fr-ca/actualites/r%C...3%A9gion-la-semaine-prochaine/ar-AALC15n

11:35 AM · Jul 1, 2021·Hootsuite Inc.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TransportAction/status/1410622988182081550

[ssiguy]

Trois Rivieres?

There is going to be hell to pay if TR & Quebec City are on the HFR route while the system doesn't go west of Toronto to London & Windsor.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

The only Raison d'Etre of the REM is to allow the CDPQ as its promoter to milk the Quebec taxpayer by charging him an obscene 72 cents per passenger-km. Operational aspects, like the integration into existing or planned transportation networks are just an afterthought, as are the actual needs of passengers. There is a reason why nowhere else in the world, the design (not just: construction and/or operation) of transportation networks is outsourced to a private company, let alone a rogue pension fund like the CDPQ...

CDPQ is not a rogue pension fund.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Trois Rivieres?

There is going to be hell to pay if TR & Quebec City are on the HFR route while the system doesn't go west of Toronto to London & Windsor.

They are. And no there isn't. Oxford County didn't even care enough to vote in provincial Liberals with their HSR plan. They've had the same conservative MPP since 1995. Kitchener-Conestoga elected Mike Harris' son in 2018. London itself has one Liberal MP and no Liberal MPPs. The reality is that these places don't care about improved rail service. But they'll enjoy it, if it happens to come their way. It's not moving votes.

And HFR ain't going west of Toronto until both the Kitchener Line and the Pearson airport hub get sorted out. The first may happen this decade. Maybe. The second isn't even a consideration for the provincial government yet. Maybe after HFR East is built, we'll see some interest from Queen's Park on the precursor projects. I wouldn't hold my breath for HFR West this decade.

[MolsonExport]

Maybe the HSR line will be ready...when I retire in 15 years

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

CDPQ is not a rogue pension fund.

There is absolutely zero accountability, transparent, due-dilligience or competitive processes about this cornerstone of Quebec Inc (just like there isn't about their brain-child, the REM) and their lack of business ethics is exemplified by being the largest shareholder of scandal-ridden SNC-Lavalin. I wish I could protect my pension from being partly managed by this pseudo-public entity, but I unfortunately would have to move outside this province to escape the Quebec Pension Plan...

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Maybe the HSR line will be ready...when I retire in 15 years

Given that HFR has already dragged on for seven years without tangible progress and that HSR lines in other democratic countries reliably take at least 20 years from widespread poitical support over environmental assessments, litigation, final approval with inevitable cost and time overruns during construction, I would almost bet my house that there won't be any HSR service (i.e. operating at sustained speeds of at least 150 mph / 240 km/h) by the end of 2036...

Case in point: it's already been 12 years since the last HSR Study has been commissioned...

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Maybe the HSR line will be ready...when I retire in 15 years

HFR (what other countries call regular train service) might get to London before you retire. Zero chance that HSR gets there.

I can't wait for the Liberals to build HFR and rebrand a train service that takes 5 hrs from Toronto to Montreal as HSR. Not directly, of course. But with some vague allusion like "The Corridor Express".

The sad part is that we have to support this. Becomes the Opposition's vision is somehow worse than even today's low expectations. Gawd, I hate how mediocre this country can be at times.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Trois Rivieres?

There is going to be hell to pay if TR & Quebec City are on the HFR route while the system doesn't go west of Toronto to London & Windsor.

??? HFR has always been a Toronto - Quebec City proposal, no?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

??? HFR has always been a Toronto - Quebec City proposal, no?

Started out as Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. The Montreal-Quebec leg was a later add-on.

[ssiguy]

London is the nation's 4th busiest VIA rail station.

SWO VIA routes also have the lowest subsidy rate per-km in the whole system so it should be on the list way before QC. Also London & Windsor are bastions of centre/centre-left politics unlike QC & TR which generally go Bloc.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

HFR (what other countries call regular train service) might get to London before you retire. Zero chance that HSR gets there.

I can't wait for the Liberals to build HFR and rebrand a train service that takes 5 hrs from Toronto to Montreal as HSR. Not directly, of course. But with some vague allusion like "The Corridor Express".

The sad part is that we have to support this. Becomes the Opposition's vision is somehow worse than even today's low expectations. Gawd, I hate how mediocre this country can be at times.

I am not sure why you would conclude that the Liberal Party is the pro train party. The dismantling of the national passenger rail system (where you could get most places by train) occurred under Trudeau. Mulroney partially restored it. Chrétien made major cuts before having a brief change of heart which Martin immediately reversed. The only significant capital investment in the actual rail network occurred under Harper (a billion dollars or so). Trudeau II has bought some new rolling stock, but spent nothing on infrastructure in 6 years.

We’ll see what this announcement is, maybe he has changed his mind.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

London itself has one Liberal MP and no Liberal MPPs.

2 Liberal MP's. Don't expect that to change in the next election, even with one of them retiring.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

London is the nation's 4th busiest VIA rail station.

SWO VIA routes also have the lowest subsidy rate per-km in the whole system so it should be on the list way before QC. Also London & Windsor are bastions of centre/centre-left politics unlike QC & TR which generally go Bloc.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

2 Liberal MP's. Don't expect that to change in the next election, even with one of them retiring.

Hardly a big difference. Again. None of this changes much when the expensive precursor projects aren't finished. And one of them hasn't even started.

The Kitchener Line is needed for the track capacity for any higher frequency service to the west of Toronto. They are doing bid eval now for all of RER. So maybe sometime this decade they finish upgrading the Kitchener Line.

The next obstacle is the $5B Pearson Transit Hub. There's no real connection between the Kitchener Line and the airport. Malton GO is 2.5 km from the terminals. And there's no facility for all the LRTs being built (Finch, Eglinton, etc) to reach the airport. VIA needs this, so they can run through Union instead of terminating there. This was originally slated to be built by 2027. But it then got pushed back to the 2030s. Then Covid happened and the airport is broke. So no idea who is going to pay for this now.

So regardless of the politics in place, there isn't enough infrastructure to go west of union. But even looking at politics there are only a handful of seats in play. That isn't really enough motivation to speed up the precursor projects. And after the provincial HSR effort provided zero political return, I'm not sure why any party would go out of their way on this one. It's clearly not an actual political priority for anybody that lives in Southwestern Ontario.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not sure why you would conclude that the Liberal Party is the pro train party. The dismantling of the national passenger rail system (where you could get most places by train) occurred under Trudeau. Mulroney partially restored it. Chrétien made major cuts before having a brief change of heart which Martin immediately reversed. The only significant capital investment in the actual rail network occurred under Harper (a billion dollars or so). Trudeau II has bought some new rolling stock, but spent nothing on infrastructure in 6 years.

I'm really not sure what bearing history from three to four decades ago has on policy today. If the CPC were to actually ever talk about HFR other than insinuating its a waste of money any time they talk about rail, I'd think they were serious. But they never mentioned it in the last two elections, criticized the CIB (which I actually agree with, but again no plan to deliver if the CIB was gone) and the only time they've ever said anything about intercity rail it's often with tired of tropes about how it's too expensive and we can't afford better intercity rail. I'm sick of their lack of vision.

So yeah. I guess I have to swallow hard and keep hoping the Liberals manage to get construction under way and past the point of no return next term. So that the CPC doesn't pull a Mike Harris - Eglinton subway when they get into power next.

[J.OT13]

Tweet from Transport Minister Omar Alghabra. It seems the announcement tomorrow will be the launch of the procurement for HFR between Quebec City and Toronto, with max speeds of up to 200 km/h.

https://twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/status/1412104935144136707

[Innsertnamehere]

Interesting and very exciting. Looking forward to details before judging.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Tweet from Transport Minister Omar Alghabra. It seems the announcement tomorrow will be the launch of the procurement for HFR between Quebec City and Toronto, with max speeds of up to 200 km/h.

https://twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/status/1412104935144136707

So how do we find out if this is real Liberal Party policy that they'll carry through vs. Liberal Party election promises that they drop as soon as they get elected and find the flimsiest excuse?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by jamincan

So how do we find out if this is real Liberal Party policy that they'll carry through vs. Liberal Party election promises that they drop as soon as they get elected and find the flimsiest excuse?

If they are actually launching the procurement as the Minister claims, this might be the real deal. Otherwise, we'll have to wait until after the election. As always, it might be a choice of voting for the guy who makes promises he'll likely not keep, or voting for the guy who promises to do nothing.