Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

What's perplexing to me is why the business community is not pushing back on City Council on these outlandish ideas. Surely there's some saner heads which fund the campaigns or outright bribe these politicians. What is going on here? Are the puppet masters drinking the Kool Aid as well?

Mostly because City Hall is excluding them from any consultation and they hear about the latest crazy ideas on news.

“This idea needs to be parked for now,” said Charles Gauthier, president and CEO of the Vancouver Downtown Business Improvement Association.

Gauthier said his organization was never consulted on the plan and it is only now studying the staff report. “I don’t think the city took into consideration the effect on downtown businesses [of a traffic toll].”

https://biv.com/article/2020/11/road-pricing-could-jam-vancouvers-exit-ramps

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That argument has been made since the first Burrard Bridge bike lane. Yet here we are.

Well, things are not going well for Downtown businesses... I don't remember the last time I have spent money in Downtown and this is before COVID. If I really need to go shopping, i drive to Tsawwassen Mills as parking is free and there is space in the stores. This, even with Metropolis just next door to me. There is a reason why Tsawwassen Mills keeps going despite the location.

Vancouver’s population has increased by 40,000 over the past eight years, but the city lost 1,356 established businesses in the same period – and this was before the impact of COVID-19, the GVBOT noted.

Since the pandemic began, the downtown has started to resemble a “ghost town,” Anderson said, with vacancies soaring in some office towers.

“The City of Vancouver was already losing businesses prior to the pandemic, while other cities in the region were experiencing double digit increases,” Anderson stated, noting that Surrey has seen a 12 per cent increase in commercial and industrial businesses since 2013.

https://biv.com/article/2020/11/road-pricing-could-jam-vancouvers-exit-ramps

[osirisboy]

A ghost town? What are they talking about? There is a ton of stuff going on in Vancouver.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

A ghost town? What are they talking about? There is a ton of stuff going on in Vancouver.

[citation needed]

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

f I really need to go shopping, i drive to Tsawwassen Mills as parking is free and there is space in the stores. This, even with Metropolis just next door to me. There is a reason why Tsawwassen Mills keeps going despite the location.

To get from Metrotown to Tsawwassen Mills is 35km and takes 30 minutes each way. You average 10 km to the litre with your car, so that's about 7 litres of gas, and at $1.57 a litre that's $11. So an hour of your life, (if the roads are clear) and burning $11 of gas (creating 16.4 kg of carbon dioxide in the process) is worth doing for free parking, and stores that don't have many customers?

[Klazu]

Your Math is not wrong and like it or hate it, that's exactly how 95% of drivers think and why Tsawwassen Mills is successful. Convenience over being stuck in endless traffic lights on Vancouver soil or worrying of someone breaking into your car while street parking.

It's also a nice experience to venture somewhere that is not in your backyard and for me Downtown stores lose 10 out of 10 times to suburban malls.

[idunno]

Tsawwassen Mills is successful? I thought their sales/sf rate was a fraction of McArthur Glen.

(source:https://viewpointvancouver.ca/2018/03/19...rthur-glen-mall-at-yvr-tsawwassen-mills/)

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Well, things are not going well for Downtown businesses... I don't remember the last time I have spent money in Downtown and this is before COVID. If I really need to go shopping, i drive to Tsawwassen Mills as parking is free and there is space in the stores. This, even with Metropolis just next door to me. There is a reason why Tsawwassen Mills keeps going despite the location.

Your anecdotes don't mean much.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MIPS

[citation needed]

Busier than Kamloops.

[logicbomb]

At first I was against the idea, however whenever I step foot into Vancouver, you see how busy the roads are getting and how many vehicles are parked in some Vancouver neighborhoods. This is not exclusive to Vancouver either, Burnaby, Richmond and Surrey (especially in Newton) have seen immense increases in vehicle ownership and the road infrastructure seem to be lagging some 20 years behind.

And Vancouver will never empty out. There's roughly a few hundred million people that are willing to move to Canada and do whatever it takes to live here. As bad as this city looks right now with the homeless and crime, it still pales to the crap other countries deal with on the daily. The taxes keep adding up, yes, but this is the price of living in a desirable city.

If done right, this is a good strategy to reduce the number of cars per household. It's not uncommon to hear about multigenerational households having 5-7 cars parked around it.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

It's also a nice experience to venture somewhere that is not in your backyard and for me Downtown stores lose 10 out of 10 times to suburban malls.

I cannot believe there are people out there who like suburban malls, but different strokes for different folks I guess

What I don't understand is that you like to "venture somewhere that is not your backyard", but the destination has the same stores you can find in thousands of malls across North America. I guess you get to see a new freeway ramp or surface parking lot...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

If done right, this is a good strategy to reduce the number of cars per household. It's not uncommon to hear about multigenerational households having 5-7 cars parked around it.

There's two things at work here. Yes, less cars, but this is climate focused. No fee for EVs, hybrids, etc.

The other thing is private parking spots. Many people currently park on the street instead of their own garage, or renting a space in their underground parkade. This is an effort to push these vehicles on to private spaces rather than "freeloading" on public spaces.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Well, things are not going well for Downtown businesses... I don't remember the last time I have spent money in Downtown and this is before COVID. If I really need to go shopping, i drive to Tsawwassen Mills as parking is free and there is space in the stores. This, even with Metropolis just next door to me. There is a reason why Tsawwassen Mills keeps going despite the location.

Staff released a study / report. The elected council by voters, not businesses, decided to have Staff present what strategies might be for consultation in 2022. So Vancouverites can vote on it then.

I don't think the issue is a lack of visitors, shoppers, residents, as those numbers increase every year. I think the real issue is taxing the highest and best use on businesses, which is controlled by the province.

Parking will never be free downtown, and there will never be a freeway. If a toll is implemented, you might find driving to downtown slightly easier (at the moment the toll is for rush hour traffic).

[Changing City]

'Free parking' whether on the street, or in a surface lot for 6,000 cars in Tsawwassen isn't really free. It cost something to create the space, and it costs something to maintain it too, and there are property taxes to pay to use the land. In the case of the street, all property owning taxpayers pay for those costs, (and tenants indirectly through their rents), but only people parking in the space get the benefit. And of course drivers are paying for the 'free parking' at the mall too - the owners bundle the cost into the rents, and those are covered by the prices that everyone pays. Someone parking for free at Metrotown is effectively being subsidized by the shoppers who travelled their by transit, or walked there.

[jlousa]

The city created the problem and now they think they can create the solution. Neighbourhood streets are clogged because practically ever house has two basement suites, and in some cases a laneway too. Since they've rented out their basements they use their garage for additional storage so every car is now fighting for the 33ft in front of that house to park their car and streets are littered with milk crates and bins guarding their spots. And all this not so hidden density has jacked up the prices of sfhs as now the home purchaser can afford a larger mortgage with the rental income.
I had proposed every home get one parking pass good for their block. You have company over lend them your pass, or park them on your property. Holding a party, invite your neighbours and borrow their passes for your other guests. But there's no money to be made in my plan.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

'Free parking' whether on the street, or in a surface lot for 6,000 cars in Tsawwassen isn't really free. It cost something to create the space, and it costs something to maintain it too, and there are property taxes to pay to use the land. In the case of the street, all property owning taxpayers pay for those costs, (and tenants indirectly through their rents), but only people parking in the space get the benefit. And of course drivers are paying for the 'free parking' at the mall too - the owners bundle the cost into the rents, and those are covered by the prices that everyone pays. Someone parking for free at Metrotown is effectively being subsidized by the shoppers who travelled their by transit, or walked there.

Pretty much all of Vancouver's road network was created and paid for decades ago. As to "maintaining" it, that's a good one. The CoV seemingly does the worst job of road maintenance of any Metro municipality. A once a year leaf clearing seems to be it.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Pretty much all of Vancouver's road network was created and paid for decades ago. As to "maintaining" it, that's a good one. The CoV seemingly does the worst job of road maintenance of any Metro municipality. A once a year leaf clearing seems to be it.

You might want to check their annual budget for roads and transportation.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You might want to check their annual budget for roads and transportation.

Did they roll their gold-plated, Richards Street bike lane into it?

Other municipalities have regular programs to resurface arterials but Vancouver seems to only do small patches when they're so rutted by development work it becomes like driving on a country road. Even then they seem to do a slapdash job of it. And if arterials are bad, sidestreets are never resurfaced.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Did they roll their gold-plated, Richards Street bike lane into it?

Other municipalities have regular programs to resurface arterials but Vancouver seems to only do small patches when they're so rutted by development work it becomes like driving on a country road. Even then they seem to do a slapdash job of it. And if arterials are bad, sidestreets are never resurfaced.

How much did the Richards St. bike lane cost?

How much did the seismic upgrade to Granville Bridge cost?

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by jlousa

The city created the problem and now they think they can create the solution. Neighbourhood streets are clogged because practically ever house has two basement suites, and in some cases a laneway too. Since they've rented out their basements they use their garage for additional storage so every car is now fighting for the 33ft in front of that house to park their car and streets are littered with milk crates and bins guarding their spots. And all this not so hidden density has jacked up the prices of sfhs as now the home purchaser can afford a larger mortgage with the rental income.
I had proposed every home get one parking pass good for their block. You have company over lend them your pass, or park them on your property. Holding a party, invite your neighbours and borrow their passes for your other guests. But there's no money to be made in my plan.

I don't think it's the City's or its citizens best interest to have minimum 1 car per household in any housing form, single-family (with rental suites) or an apartment with a parkade.