General Update/Rumour thread [Suburban Ottawa]

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

Is 'Centre Slush Puppie' the real name of an arena ?

Yes. I suppose if you weren't used to the name the 'Canadian Tire Centre' would be just about as odd though.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

For me, a better spot might be next to the fire station on Earl Armstrong and Spratt. Same advantages as the current lot (in terms of general road access), but in the community and on transit. We'd also wouldn't be building more parking on the river. That land might be reserved for something else, and if that's the case, any other empty lot along Earl Armstrong would work just as well.

If you are referring to the lot that I outlined in red, it will be a future elementary school with child care services.

Also, "anywhere" on Earl Armstrong isn't necessarily any better as route 99 turns north on Spratt and runs through the existing community between Earl Armstrong and Limebank. So there is currently no transit (besides peak period routes) on Earl Armstrong. This may change when the O-train is completed to Limebank.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Wasn't Jan Harder on the Ottawa Police Services Board - co-incidence that they would build a taj mahal of police stations in her ward? Seems very overbuilt when considering other suburban police centres.

Say what you want about Jan Harder and what she has, and hasn't done, but the proposed site isn't even in her ward. It's in ward 22: Gloucester-South Nepean.

[J.OT13]

Seems like a terrible spot for an Elementary School. They are usually built in the middle of residential neighbourhoods to keep kids away from busy main drags.

[TransitZilla]

^ That vacant lot at Earl Armstrong & Spratt is the site of the future Riverside South OCDSB High School.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

^ That vacant lot at Earl Armstrong & Spratt is the site of the future Riverside South OCDSB High School.

Thanks for the info! A public school board high school is definitely due in this community.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

^ That vacant lot at Earl Armstrong & Spratt is the site of the future Riverside South OCDSB High School.

Ok, thanks for the info. High School makes far more sense than an Elementary School on that corner.

[Tesladom]

More warehouses near Amazon Boundary location:
Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/boundary-road-distribution-warehouses-ottawa-demand-1.6036368

6,000-square-metre warehouse proposed by New Brunswick-based Day and Ross. It's similar in size to a new Rosedale Group warehouse nearby.

A second proposal for a warehouse 10 times larger is being put forward by real estate company Avenue 31. It would go right across the road from the Amazon warehouse, and includes plans for more than 100 truck docks.

[waterloowarrior]

Day and Ross
https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D01-01-21-0005/details

Avenue 31
https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D01-01-20-0025/details

[TransitZilla]

^ I wish Avenue31 would develop their site at Hunt Club & 417 before leapfrogging out to Boundary Rd.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

^ I wish Avenue31 would develop their site at Hunt Club & 417 before leapfrogging out to Boundary Rd.

Phase 1 of that project is underway this summer... will take a little while for Boundary Road to go through the OPA process
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=242719

[TransitZilla]

Good stuff. I think I did notice some work starting last night.

I don't have a problem with Boundary Rd as a logistics hub, but if we're going to create a node with a bunch of low wage jobs several kilometers from the city, we could at least provide some transit service.

[Tesladom]

It would be very easy to set up a bus going from Cyrville station every 15 minutes all the way to Vars and develop park and rides at Anderson, Boundary and Rockdale (large industrial park there as well)

[rocketphish]

$9.1M lawsuit claims city hall short-changed a developer that built Kanata-area roundabout
Suit claims that the intersection of Campeau Drive and Palladium Drive should have been a curved road and not a roundabout

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jun 02, 2021 • 53 minutes ago • 3 minute read

The city is stiffing a local developer out of $9.1-million in construction costs while claiming that a roundabout near the Tanger Outlets shouldn’t have been built in the first place, according to a lawsuit revealing a peculiar dispute over roadwork in the Kanata area.

The lawsuit, filed by West Ottawa Land Holdings, includes several eyeopening allegations against city hall, including claims that a project numbering error is at the root of the fight and that the intersection of Campeau Drive and Palladium Drive should have been a curved road and not a roundabout.

None of the allegations in the lawsuit has been tested in court.

The city’s legal department declined to comment on the suit, which is standard practice when it comes to litigation.

Lawyers for West Ottawa Land Holdings also declined to comment since the matter is before the court.

It means the particularly head-scratching allegation about the roundabout is left without much explanation, other than the one that the lawsuit offers.

The fight dates back to 2016 when West Ottawa Land Holdings and the city signed a subdivision agreement requiring the developer to extend part of Campeau Drive and, apparently, build the roundabout. West Ottawa Land Holdings and RioCan, which isn’t part of the lawsuit, finished the work except for landscaping that they expect to be completed “in or around” 2021.

The expectation that West Ottawa Land Holdings would do the roadwork has a history going back to a 2014 study that established the projects on which development charges would be spent. A 2017 report indicated there weren’t enough funds to pay for the work and recommended that the next development charge study in 2019 account for it.

However, according to the lawsuit, the project never appeared in the 2019 development charge study, which underpins the planning for infrastructure projects that rely on development charge revenue. The 2017 report, which informed the 2019 study, had the incorrect project label. It said Project 44, rather than Project 4A4, the lawsuit says.

The problem with that is Project 44 isn’t scheduled to be paid out until 2026. The city, the lawsuit says, is holding to that timeline.

West Ottawa Land Holdings says the city hasn’t paid a dime for the road and roundabout project, even though it was constructed under the terms of the subdivision agreement.

“Front-ending” agreements between developers and the city are common when municipal infrastructure, such as a new road, is required for a development earlier than what the city has scheduled. The developer builds the infrastructure and is reimbursed by the city according to a timeline.

According to the lawsuit, West Ottawa Land Holdings wanted a front-ending agreement with the city, but the city had failed or refused to establish one, partly leading to this post-construction clash.

The fallout, based on the narrative in the lawsuit, raises questions about what the city had in mind for the final design of the intersection and connecting portion of Campeau Drive.

According to the lawsuit, the city last fall told West Ottawa Land Holdings that the roadwork was “overbuilt” because there should have been two lanes, not four lanes, and there should have been a curved connecting road rather than a roundabout.

“City staff further claimed that they were only obligated to repay the Plaintiffs the costs of building a curved, connecting, two-lane road,” the lawsuit says.

West Ottawa Land Holdings denies the project was overbuilt and says it completed the project according to approved documents. The city was aware and could have sought to revise the design, and in fact, required the developer to have the plan peer-reviewed, the lawsuit says.

West Ottawa Land Holdings, which is affiliated with the Taggart group of companies, has launched a double-barrelled legal attack against the city in an effort to promptly recoup its millions.

The dispute is also in front of the Local Planning Appeal Tribunal when it comes to the 2019 development charge bylaw that didn’t include the costs of the construction work.

The tribunal can make a ruling on the council-approved 2019 development charges bylaw, but potentially not about the issue of reimbursing West Ottawa Land Holdings for the construction work, the lawsuit says.

It all leads to the developer wanting the court to order the city pay a total of $9,152,650.18 to cover engineering, construction, project management and taxes.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ed-by-city-hall-in-building-a-roundabout

[rocketphish]

City rethinking commercial tax breaks for Orléans
Focus on highly skilled jobs failed to yield results, councillor says

Kate Porter · CBC News
Posted: Jun 03, 2021 12:06 AM ET | Last Updated: 7 hours ago

The City of Ottawa is revamping tax incentives aimed at attracting highly skilled jobs to Orléans, settling instead for commercial redevelopment that creates full-time positions of any kind.

Long before it targeted Vanier for revitalization, awarding a Porsche dealership there a tax break that could be worth $2.9 million over 10 years, the city created a pair of community improvement plans for Orléans.

One, aimed at the eastern suburb's main commercial strip of St. Joseph Boulevard, has resulted in seven grants since 2009, including a new Farm Boy grocery store that by next year will get back $448,621 of the $640,887 it's paid in taxes since opening in 2012, a rebate of 70 per cent.

The other program offered tax incentives for any redevelopment that lures highly skilled jobs to Orléans, where there are 120,000 residents but few employers. Only a couple of grants have been given since that second program was launched in 2013.

"Neither had the uptake that we would have like to have seen," said Coun. Matt Luloff during a virtual community meeting Wednesday night.

Now, the city will combine both programs to try to lure more jobs, improve St. Joseph Boulevard and encourage street-level businesses to open near the new light rail extension due to arrive in a few years.

Innes ward Coun. Laura Dudas said the revamped program should send the message that the east end is "open for business."

Economic development officer Chris Cope said applicants will have to show that their developments wouldn't go ahead without the city grant.

Cope said the city wasn't having great success attracting knowledge jobs to Orléans, and will instead aim for redevelopment that can create any 20 full-time positions of any kind.

"We simply want jobs. More jobs in Orléans, I think, is a good thing," said Cope.

The tax incentive would be capped at $5 million over a decade.

Cope said staff have mapped out 700 commercial properties in Orléans that could stand to be renewed and would be eligible, but said the city can't "cherry pick" grant recipients.

Because provincial law prevents municipalities from offering other financial incentives, such community improvement plans are one of the few tools the city has to promote economic development, municipal officials say.

Council has decided to put off a cost-benefit analyis of the community improvement program until 2023.

The Orléans community improvement plan goes to the finance and economic development committee July 6, rising to city council the next day.




https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/community-improvement-plan-orleans-st-joseph-revamp-1.6051255

[J.OT13]

Trim Station has been renamed Tenth Line. Nice!

I never understood the obsession with getting more high paying jobs to Orleans. It's a bedroom community near downtown with good (and about to get better transit). Nothing wrong with that.

No issues with a continued grant program for St. Joseph. It needs it. Proving that a project would not be built without the grant might be difficult.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I never understood the obsession with getting more high paying jobs to Orleans.

Local jobs create vibrancy and opportunity. Workers need to travel less and will spend more locally.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Local jobs create vibrancy and opportunity. Workers need to travel less and will spend more locally.

My issue is the idea of moving jobs from one end of the city to the other. Gains for one area of the region at the detriment of another. is a zero-sum game. Might even be a loss (small businesses downtown could suffer from the loss of jobs in favour of a more car oriented location in the burbs).

There also the consideration of accessibility. Downtown is central. About equidistance for everyone. When jobs are moved to the outer-Greenbelt suburbs, then that's a far longer commute for those who live across town. DND Nortel is a great example of that, with a good portion of staff living in Orleans and Gatineau having a far longer commute. Families can't just pack up and leave if they already have roots in their current area.

If the Feds started an entirely new department, it's not quite as bad (as long as it's directly linked to the O-Train). If we're attracting a whole new company, then that's even better.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

There also the consideration of accessibility. Downtown is central. About equidistance for everyone. When jobs are moved to the outer-Greenbelt suburbs, then that's a far longer commute for those who live across town. DND Nortel is a great example of that, with a good portion of staff living in Orleans and Gatineau having a far longer commute. Families can't just pack up and leave if they already have roots in their current area.

I'll speak up in defence of DND Nortel.

It wasn't done because of desire to move jobs. DND consolidated from ~40 locations in the NCR to about a dozen. Some jobs actually moved East (Star Top). Some consolidated in Gatineau (455 Blvd de la Carriere) and National Printing Bureau and some moved to the Moodie Campus.

My Gatineau commute ain't as good as my downtown commute used to be. But I'm also glad they built an actual base for once. Security and on base amenities at Pearkes were terrible. So was the fact that every service was all over Ottawa. Took half a day just to go to Supply to get some kit. Would have been great if the government could give them all of LeBreton Flats and a billion dollars to build a campus in the core. Since that wasn't possible, repurposing the Nortel campus was the right call.

Yeah, it 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for public servants who lived in Orleans when some of the jobs in the core consolidated at Moodie. But this was the sensible choice over the long term. Military postings alone mean everybody in uniform from Orleans will be replaced by someone closer to their job in Kanata or Gatineau over 3-5 years. It'll take longer for public servants to turn over. But they will turn over in due course.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If the Feds started an entirely new department, it's not quite as bad (as long as it's directly linked to the O-Train). If we're attracting a whole new company, then that's even better.

I get why Orleans wants this. But the feds are pretty much done with a lot of big moves. If anything there's a lot of office downsizing coming. I know my organization is actively canvassing about that and openly discussing if they can get away with less real estate.

Orleans best hope isn't a new federal department. It's co-working spaces for the feds. They aren't going to be getting much more.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'll speak up in defence of DND Nortel.

It wasn't done because of desire to move jobs. DND consolidated from ~40 locations in the NCR to about a dozen. Some jobs actually moved East (Star Top). Some consolidated in Gatineau (455 Blvd de la Carriere) and National Printing Bureau and some moved to the Moodie Campus.

My Gatineau commute ain't as good as my downtown commute used to be. But I'm also glad they built an actual base for once. Security and on base amenities at Pearkes were terrible. So was the fact that every service was all over Ottawa. Took half a day just to go to Supply to get some kit. Would have been great if the government could give them all of LeBreton Flats and a billion dollars to build a campus in the core. Since that wasn't possible, repurposing the Nortel campus was the right call.

Yeah, it 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for public servants who lived in Orleans when some of the jobs in the core consolidated at Moodie. But this was the sensible choice over the long term. Military postings alone mean everybody in uniform from Orleans will be replaced by someone closer to their job in Kanata or Gatineau over 3-5 years. It'll take longer for public servants to turn over. But they will turn over in due course.

In the case of DND Nortel, I agree it was the right move when looking at the full picture. Consolidating those 40+ offices into a few buildings is far more efficient and increases overall security. Adapting an existing office complex is the most sustainable solution. Its isolated location is well suited for DND's needs. Having a high-security complex downtown, like the Pearkes, makes for a terrible presence in the core.

The longer commute argument in this particular case is not enough to discard it as a good location. For one, it's on the western edge of the urban west end, and not on the far end of a suburban community. Transitway/O-Train service makes it relatively accessible, as long as we provide good last mile options (bus shuttles, bike lanes and walking paths).

RCMP in Barrhaven might have been a better example of a bad move. Poor car access AND nowhere near rapid transit.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I get why Orleans wants this. But the feds are pretty much done with a lot of big moves. If anything there's a lot of office downsizing coming. I know my organization is actively canvassing about that and openly discussing if they can get away with less real estate.

Orleans best hope isn't a new federal department. It's co-working spaces for the feds. They aren't going to be getting much more.

I wonder what may happen with the Tremblay at St. Laurent project. That is a decent location with rapid transit access and still relatively centrally located. The Feds had several other projects on the books like an research office tower behind Terrace in Hull. Zibi is ready to build another office block best suited for the Feds (on top of the one u/c). Those in Hull could still be useful as swing space.

I'm completely on board with co-working spaces in the suburban centres of Kanata, Barrhaven and Orleans. Give employees the option of working in the office near home without having to commute to THE office all the time, and without having to work from home, which is not always well adapted (distractions, lack of space, tougher to disconnect)